A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[rickca]

22 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Forget internet streaming.

I was just thinking about this today.  I'm very addicted to Qobuz and buying much less music to rip.  There's no way to get the router out of the picture, and I've never seen an audiophile router.

[rickca]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Unfortunately the bundled OTG adapter exploded into pieces in my hand one day. So, I bought several beige colored adapters from Amazon that sound slightly better to me.

I'm using an Audioquest DragonTail that does the job, but it isn't beige.

[Cornan]

32 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Forget internet streaming.  You can't control the first or last mile.  Once in your home, yeah, too late.  Obviously do the best possible.  That means trying to correct the damage.  Guess not much different than working with the current mobos, soon someday hopefully we get an audiophile mobo that will  make all these reclocking devices mute. 

 

How could I just forget about it? I've got the most amazing music collection at the top of my fingers and it still sounds amazing! ?

[lmitche]

41 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

How could I just forget about it? I've got the most amazing music collection at the top of my fingers and it still sounds amazing! ?

Tidal and locally stored Redbook sound equivalent here.  There is lots of redundancy between the two, and depending on the album Tidal may have a better master or vice versa, especially on old stuff.

[austinpop]

22 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Apropos of this: a quick update on @Bamber's IR/LPS-1 that he is graciously lending me. It has finally shipped  and should be here this week.

 

Well, rats, Murphy's Law seems to have struck me at last.  I received @Bamber's IR+LPS-1, drop shipped from Alex, but the LPS-1 appears to be DOA. No red (LED) on initial power on. What are the odds?! I own 3 x LPS-1s with not a single problem!

 

I left @Superdad a voicemail, so I'm sure he'll work some magic. On the bright side, this will force me to let the IR burn in in peace for a few days.

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Well, rats, Murphy's Law seems to have struck me at last.  I received @Bamber's IR+LPS-1, drop shipped from Alex, but the LPS-1 appears to be DOA. No red (LED) on initial power on. What are the odds?! I own 3 x LPS-1s with not a single problem!

 

I left @Superdad a voicemail, so I'm sure he'll work some magic. On the bright side, this will force me to let the IR burn in in peace for a few days.

 

I'm having a late lunch in town after dropping a bunch of small shipments at the post, and then I'm going food shopping. 

You obviously know how to use LPS-1s, but VERY strange to hear of a DoA as I personally test every one.

And to get no LED at all.  That sounds like a charging supply issue.  If using the Mean Well, please check for green LED on it. (We don't QC the SMPS chargers.)

So swap chargers with one of your other LPS-1s.  

 

Of course if she is really most sincerely dead, we will replace it post haste.  

[mozes]

14 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Well, rats, Murphy's Law seems to have struck me at last.  I received @Bamber's IR+LPS-1, drop shipped from Alex, but the LPS-1 appears to be DOA. No red (LED) on initial power on. What are the odds?! I own 3 x LPS-1s with not a single problem!

 

I left @Superdad a voicemail, so I'm sure he'll work some magic. On the bright side, this will force me to let the IR burn in in peace for a few days.

This is strange, I have never heard about a DOA LPS-1 before. These units are very reliable. 

[austinpop]

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

You obviously know how to use LPS-1s, but VERY strange to hear of a DoA as I personally test every one.

And to get no LED at all.

 

I know. I've never had that.

 

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 That sounds like a charging supply issue.  If using the Mean Well, please check for green LED on it. (We don't QC the SMPS chargers.)

 

Yup the Mean Well is green.

 

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

So swap chargers with one of your other LPS-1s.  

 

Done already. No luck with any of my existing Mean Wells.

 

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Of course if she is really most sincerely dead, we will replace it post haste.  

 

I know you will, so not worried.

 

Yep, she's deader than a doornail, pardner.

 

We can figure out next step over phone/email. I'll be here.

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, rickca said:

I'm using an Audioquest DragonTail that does the job, but it isn't beige.

Here you go! Run a USPCB from the ISO Regen into one of these.

 

https://www.amazon.com/USB-Adapter-Female-B/dp/B000BSHJK0

[asdf1000]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

ith Tidal as the only source the Aqvox switch-8 have the best clock

 

Hi Cornan, what clock does their switch use? I've sent a few emails but no response.

 

Have you (or anyone here) ever taken a photo of the inside?

 

Does it use only ultra low noise linear regulators ?

 

Cheers

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Well, rats, Murphy's Law seems to have struck me at last.  I received @Bamber's IR+LPS-1, drop shipped from Alex, but the LPS-1 appears to be DOA. No red (LED) on initial power on. What are the odds?! I own 3 x LPS-1s with not a single problem!

 

I left @Superdad a voicemail, so I'm sure he'll work some magic. On the bright side, this will force me to let the IR burn in in peace for a few days.

 

Well, Alex did contact me with a very customer-friendly resolution - as we knew he would.

 

But I got to thinking - what if it's literally just the LED that's broken, but the unit is still working? Classic existential question. If the LED's dark, is the unit really working? Well - it is!

 

So net net - the LPS-1 is working, just the LED's broken. We'll figure out a way to swap it out anyway, so @Bamber still receives a pristine unit when I send it on to him after my testing.

 

Meanhile, the ISO-Regen continues to burns-in...

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi Cornan, what clock does their switch use? I've sent a few emails but no response.

 

Have you (or anyone here) ever taken a photo of the inside?

 

Does it use only ultra low noise linear regulators ?

 

Cheers

 

Sorry, no idea which clock they use. I have never opened it up to take a photo either.

Here is what Aqvox says about it:

 

Quote

AQVOX Modification:
"State of the Art" Signal Optimization 
 

- Internal Ultra-Low-Noise voltage regulation
- Jitter Reduction
- ReClocker
- Signal Shaper
- EMI Eleminator
- De-Noiser
- Modified/optimized external power supply**

 

[rickca]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Here you go! Run a USPCB from the ISO Regen into one of these.

Thanks, I just ordered another USPCB from Alex using the procedure he posted this weekend.

[Hiyono]

I got it working.  It see the sms-200 on HQplayer.  But the music pauses every 1-3 secs then continues playing.  Those few seconds I can hear sound really nice though!

Does anyone have any idea whats wrong?

 

edit.

Hi, I am still having trouble getting my sms-200 to show up in HQplayer NAA. If someone can help that would be great.

 

 I went ahead and bought a 2nd apple TB to ethernet adapter.

 

Its now Router > ethernet TB >macbook pro > ethernet TB > sms-200.  I followed the guides here.  I bridged the two connections.  Both internet and eunhasu.local work for me.  But HQplayer is still unable to find the sms-200 NAA.  SMS-200 eunhasu.local NAA is active.  When the SMS-200 is directly connected to the router.  HQplayer see it fine.  Just not when bridged.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, Hiyono said:

I got it working.  It see the sms-200 on HQplayer.  But the music pauses every 1-3 secs then continues playing.

What did you do to get it working?

 

I assume you can do the exact same upsampling without pauses when sMS-200 is attached to your router?  If so, maybe try less aggressive upsampling (less resource intensive and lower sample rate) with the bridged connection and see if the pauses go away.

[Hiyono]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

What did you do to get it working?

 

I assume you can do the exact same upsampling without pauses when sMS-200 is attached to your router?  If so, maybe try less aggressive upsampling (less resource intensive and lower sample rate) with the bridged connection and see if the pauses go away.

 

It fixed itself.

Yea it had the same settings when directly connected to router but with no problems.  I am using flacs and I have a Chord Dave, so I turned all the upsampling off and let the Dave do all the upscaling.  It was only using like 2% of the cpu.  I restarted the mac, sms200, router, etc but still had the same problem.  So I let the music continue playing and started cleaning up the room a little and moving the cables a bit and it solved it somehow.  now it plays everything fine.

 

Hmm.  I went to dinner and came back and now its doing it again.  

[ElviaCaprice]

I have to say, my current digital frontend is the best I've ever heard.  The detail and stage presence is fantastic.  Not a hint of glimmer from the mobo or any stray AC corruption.

 

I place the improvement on a few factors.  One, get off the direct AC grid, all components server to speakers.  I can't stress enough that I think it's mostly about power, low power, low impedance, especially the mobo.  I don't think the clocks are as important as we think, other than they need clean stream and power to work at their optimum or better (do no harm). 

 

Another factor is the ISO Regen, just a fantastic component which I will say is all you need between the server and DAC.  So far an additional ISO Regen and/or SOTM USB BEXP audio card added nothing, but to be fair, I only have 4 LPS-1's and not enough PS's to give them a proper testing.

 

Thirdly, and most important, the adapter/chord between the USB components.  Adding the USPCB from Uptone between the server and ISO Regen was huge (my last update, replacing a Supra USB chord), along with between the ISO Regen and DAC.

 

If I stopped today and remained with my system as is in the signature below I would be happy.

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Thirdly, and most important, the adapter/chord between the USB components.  Adding the USPCB from Uptone between the server and ISO Regen was huge

This is also what I found with the USPCB between the Nimitra server and Iso-Regen. It replaced a Curious Regen link. I only have one USPCB, but will getting more.

 

Just to confirm, did you try cascading two IRs and found that it didn't improve anything?

[asdf1000]

5 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Adding the USPCB from Uptone between the server and ISO Regen was huge (my last update, replacing a Supra USB chord), along with between the ISO Regen and DAC.

 

Thanks for sharing ! So having the computer/server so close to the DAC (with the very short USPCB) was the better compromise than using the longer Supra USB cable to feed the ISO REGEN?

 

Definitely the USPCB on the output of the ISO REGEN is almost a must but I would have thought some separation between the server and DAC is necessary. I guess like everything it's system dependent. E.g. if the server and DAC are both incredibly well shielded against RF/EMI that helps.

 

[ElviaCaprice]

57 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Thanks for sharing ! So having the computer/server so close to the DAC (with the very short USPCB) was the better compromise than using the longer Supra USB cable to feed the ISO REGEN?

 

Definitely the USPCB on the output of the ISO REGEN is almost a must but I would have thought some separation between the server and DAC is necessary. I guess like everything it's system dependent. E.g. if the server and DAC are both incredibly well shielded against RF/EMI that helps.

 

Yeah, I was surprised at the difference, changing out for the USPCB.  Like night and day.  Not to take away from the importance of the USPCB between the DAC and ISO Regen.  I didn't test it's differences.  Put it this way, I think the USPCB is just as important as the ISO Regen and I would replace all USB connectors with it.  If not possible, I would get rid of those components.  I think it's that good, thus important.

 

I don't think there is any compromise having a low power server close to other audio components.

In my case my 12V low powerd Jetway NUC is ideal, turned it on it's side, I'm also powering a 5V 2.5" drive with a LPS-1 connected by SATA II, short PPA sata chord.  Just waiting on a Paul Hynes SR7 to replace the current 12V led battery feeding the mobo.  But damn it sure sounds good. 

[ElviaCaprice]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

 

 

Just to confirm, did you try cascading two IRs and found that it didn't improve anything?

Yes, but I had to share a LPS-1 power supply which I think could be a degradation to the SQ, also even more important, I would have needed an additional USPCB, which I did not have.  But as it stood, I didn't find any improvement in sound with the additional ISO Regen with or without GI.  Best sound is my current configuration to date below.  It's so good now I may just forgo waiting for the SR7 PS and go ahead and sell the second ISO Regen, without it's USPCB, which will never leave my system.

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Yes, but I had to share a LPS-1 power supply which I think could be a degradation to the SQ, also even more important, I would have needed an additional USPCB, which I did not have.  But as it stood, I didn't find any improvement in sound with the additional ISO Regen.  Best sound is my current configuration to date below.  It's so good now I may just forgo waiting for the SR7 PS and go ahead and sell the second ISO Regen, without it's USPCB?

This is great news, It seems that one IR with two USPCBs before and after is a damn good sweetspot!

[Johnseye]

On 7/2/2017 at 7:03 PM, mozes said:

I have made the decision a while back to go USB only in my system for simplicity reasons and not because I know it is superior to ethernet. I always felt that there maybe some compromise there because I always read about how great the performance of SMS-200 and microrendu.  I am happy that you also found that USB has a great potential to sound awesome and that we in the USB camp can have the same if not surpass the SQ of a hybrid ethernet/USB chain. Of course, not all USB chains are created equal. In my system and after a lot of trials I found that the best SQ is this chain:

Nimitra sever (VR Mini)>IR(LPS-1)>tX-USBultra(Nikola flagship LPS)>Brooklyn (VR Mini)

 

On 7/2/2017 at 6:36 PM, romaz said:

Ultimately, what this means is that I have decided to abandon the AOIP route and go straight USB.  Not only is it simpler but there are other advantages.  It's possible some of the improved SQ I am hearing compared against the sMS-200ultra is due to Chord's ASIO driver in Windows being superior to the stock sound driver in Linux that is used by all AOIP devices like the mR or sMS-200.  For sure, I can now play even my resource-intensive DSD256 files without any dropouts, something that was never possible with either my mR or sMS-200.  I also now have the ability to go to go to Core mode with Windows Server 2016 without having to worry about losing my bridged LAN connection.  

 

So you both are abandoning the ethernet endpoint sms-200 or mR solution to go straight from your PCs via USB to a reclocker like the IR or tX?  Just to be clear, you're finding that once a high quality power source is feeding your devices, filtration through copper or fiber ethernet has no meaningful impact?

[tapatrick]

On 2 July 2017 at 10:47 PM, ElviaCaprice said:

 

Awesome, Roy, I'm loving my Omega 8XRS (2Qute drives them with volume to spare).  No subwoofer needed.  Checked out those Voxativ 9.87s online.  Saw they go for 25k to 33k.  Quietly closed the page.  I see they sent Steve Hoffman a set back in 2015, gratis, he loves them. 

@ElviaCaprice I'm curious how you drive your Omegas with the 2Qute and how the volume works? I didn't think the 2Qute was a headphone amp.

[lmitche]

6 hours ago, mozes said:

This is great news, It seems that one IR with two USPCBs before and after is a damn good sweetspot!

I can confirm the benefit of the second USPCB.  Over here, the second USPCB replaced a split Lightspeed 2G cable.  While it's a bit unnatural to have the DAC immediately behind the PC, the sound quality benefits are worth it. While the USB cable sounded great,  the USPCB replacement brings a new level of realism.

 

Unlike the original Regen, after hearing these benefits there was never any thought of adding a second ISO Regen. Nevertheless I am glad to hear from Elvia that this option has been tested and eliminated. Thanks!