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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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26 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

Well we don't know the power requirement of UpTone audiophile switch yet. Nor if they actually will make one. 

I am confused.  I thought the quote of my words were for a device that needs 1.5A.  Anyway, my words were not direct to the Uptone audiophile switch.

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6 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

 

I am convinced after your thorough comparisons. Thanks you so much for your time and effort!

 

I will definitely be sending my sms200Ultra for a switch mod. Could you please write down the exact model number of the Zyxel switch you were using in your test?

 

He used an 8 port Zyxel GS108Bv.  

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17 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

@scan80269 is doing the SU-1 mods. Just have Tim ship to him. 

Hi @R1200CL

 

Yeah but he's doing the capacitor mods. Though I guess worth asking if he thinks the clock mods are doable. 

 

He's in the US too so courier costs might be a factor. 

 

Thanks, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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Leter from Singxer responded they won't perform any mods.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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9 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Hi @R1200CL

 

Yeah but he's doing the capacitor mods. Though I guess worth asking if he thinks the clock mods are doable. 

 

He's in the US too so courier costs might be a factor. 

 

Thanks, 

Alan 

I don't understand why anyone wants to replace the Crystek 575 in their SU-1.  This clock functions solely for the I2S output and from these testing results is as good or better than the Sclk EX, although they didn't even use the I2S output.

 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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3 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I don't understand why anyone wants to replace the Crystek 575 in their SU-1.  This clock functions solely for the I2S output and from these testing results is as good or better than the Sclk EX.  

 

Hi @ElviaCaprice

 

 

Yeah that's a good point I guess. Might explain in part why the SU-1 sounds so great! 

 

I was thinking purely in terms of synchronising / synergy with the sCLK-EX on the upstream SMS-200 and modded switch. But might actually do more harm than good. 

 

Thanks, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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8 hours ago, austinpop said:

2-day Ultra-vaganza Report

 
I see @limniscatehas already leaked some important results to the press. Typical lawyer move. :D I, OTOH am a scientist™, so what follows is the summary report from our listening sessions. We conducted at least 14 distinct experiments, so I'll be reporting those here.
 

 

Would you please describe your testing/listening process?  For example, did one of you make unannounced changes while the other, with eyes closed listened, then took notes without discussing your findings?  Then did you swap positions and repeat in a different order?  Or was this just a hang out, listen and figure it out together scenario.  I don't discount your "scientific" method but am curious to how blind and bias proof you made this test.

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22 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Would you please describe your testing/listening process?  For example, did one of you make unannounced changes while the other, with eyes closed listened, then took notes without discussing your findings?  Then did you swap positions and repeat in a different order?  Or was this just a hang out, listen and figure it out together scenario.  I don't discount your "scientific" method but am curious to how blind and bias proof you made this test.

We did not blind test, but I've suggested that for the next time.  We did volume-match the microRendu versus the sMS-200 Ultra, but didn't make sure that everything else was volume-matched.  

 

We used 2-4 songs at about 1:30 each.  We would go back-and-forth between the components several times and discuss.  I'm a strong believer in confirmation bias, which is why I want to conduct single-blind testing next time.

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8 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

 

I am convinced after your thorough comparisons. Thanks you so much for your time and effort!

 

I will definitely be sending my sms200Ultra for a switch mod. Could you please write down the exact model number of the Zyxel switch you were using in your test?

 

Welcome.

 

This is the switch. https://www.zyxel.com/us/en/products_services/8-Port-Desktop-Gigabit-Ethernet-Switch-GS-108B-v3/

 

Note it takes a 5V DC input, although for mine, I asked May to ensure the upgraded regulators would be happy at 7V too. 

 

I have no idea why the Newegg unit just referenced a couple posts up is showing 12V input. 

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1 hour ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I don't understand why anyone wants to replace the Crystek 575 in their SU-1

The SU-1 costs so little I'm willing to try.  If it doesn't sound better then I will send the sCLK-EX back to SoTM and have them replace the clocks on my server motherboard.

 

it would be good if someone with an original SU-1 could blind test both in their system.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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Just now, limniscate said:

We did not blind test, but I've suggested that for the next time.  We did volume-match the microRendu versus the sMS-200 Ultra, but didn't make sure that everything else was volume-matched.  

 

We used 2-4 songs at about 1:30 each.  We would go back-and-forth between the components several times and discuss.  I'm a strong believer in confirmation bias, which is why I want to conduct single-blind testing next time.

 

That's a great point about volume matching because very often when people think they hear a sound improvement it's because it's louder.  Thus, the component itself isn't actually better, it's just louder.  But you know this, which is why you mentioned it.

 

Of course we can hear differences even when not blindfolded.  But it's so easy, especially when the differences are negligible, to think you hear something when it's either your belief or another factor like loudness or volume.  This makes testing much more cumbersome, but all the more satisfying when you know the results can't be easily attributed to external factors.  Regardless, I appreciate your efforts and they do impact everyone's opinions (and wallets) here at CA.

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Just so everyone is aware: I have a tendency to be biased against improvement.  When I first got my microRendu, I thought I heard no difference.  Then I brought over three friends who had no idea what I was changing (two were not audiophiles at all), and they could all easily hear the difference with the microRendu.  

 

I then tried the microRendu on my headphones and was astounded at the difference.  Finally, I put it back in my speaker system and was shocked that I couldn't hear the difference before. 

 

This is why I want to blind test again.

 

FYI, I just removed the bridge--thus taking out the switch and cannot hear a difference.  Note that I'm subtracting from the chain because the sMS-200 Ultra, cables, iSO-CAT6, and dX-USB Ultra are still in place.  Whereas, @austinpop and I took an additive approach when we tested the switch.

 

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7 hours ago, guillaume31 said:

Since we are in the "network bridge" post 9_9, how about the sMS-200Ultra in bridge mode versus the sMS-200Ultra connected to the modded switch ?

 

What I like in the modded switch is that in my set-up I could also connect my HTPC to it and get some benefits but on the other hand I've been trying to reduce the number of boxes and just got rid of my optical network :$

 

As mentioned, the purpose of the switch in this direct connection is purely to reclock. Have a look at my explanation of topologies - linked in index in the first post of this thread.

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6 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

That's a great point about volume matching because very often when people think they hear a sound improvement it's because it's louder.  Thus, the component itself isn't actually better, it's just louder.  But you know this, which is why you mentioned it.

 

Of course we can hear differences even when not blindfolded.  But it's so easy, especially when the differences are negligible, to think you hear something when it's either your belief or another factor like loudness or volume.  This makes testing much more cumbersome, but all the more satisfying when you know the results can't be easily attributed to external factors.  Regardless, I appreciate your efforts and they do impact everyone's opinions (and wallets) here at CA.

 

@austinpopand I learned from our testing of the Ayre Codex versus the Schiit Yggy that volume-matching is key.  We both thought we heard differences between the DACs.  It turned out that one DAC was 1.5dB louder at the given preamp volume.  Once we volume-matched, we thought the DACs sounded the same.

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3 minutes ago, limniscate said:

 

@austinpopand I learned from our testing of the Ayre Codex versus the Schiit Yggy that volume-matching is key.  We both thought we heard differences between the DACs.  It turned out that one DAC was 1.5dB louder at the given preamp volume.  Once we volume-matched, we thought the DACs sounded the same.

 

That's all it takes.  1.5dB.

Interesting to note about the Codex and Yggy.  I was seriously contemplating auditioning the Yggy and maybe won't now.  I did my own comparison between the Codex and Audio Alchemy DDP-1 and as unscientific as it was, liked the DDP-1 much better.  But this isn't about those DACs so I won't go further.

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On 6/27/2017 at 2:47 PM, magnuska said:

Hi Bamber,

 

I emailed Sotm about burn in. I have the sms-200 ultra and tx-usb ultra since almost 2 weeks now. 

May Park told me that all sotm products need 1 months to fully burn in. The two first weeks one can hear different performance from the units as often as 2-3 hours in between. After two weeks they have settled more. I can agree to this, It is very much so. For me the sms-200 ultra was a clear improvement even from cold compared to mR.

So for all fair comparisions to be made make sure all units are burnt in as much as possible:)

 

Regards Magnus

I left the SoTM duo playing for 9 hours today and without a doubt the sound has become warmer.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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20 minutes ago, limniscate said:

I just removed the bridge--thus taking out the switch and cannot hear a difference.

I'm familiar with your topology but I just don't get this.  How does just removing the bridge take the switch out?

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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3 minutes ago, rickca said:

I'm familiar with your topology but I just don't get this.  How does just removing the bridge take the switch out?

Technically, I have two switches: one in my master bedroom's closet, which is also where the router and modem are located, and the other is the SOtM-modded switch.  My understanding of bridged mode is that it cuts out the switch and router in my master bedroom's closet, and the data goes directly from my PC to the SOtM-modded switch to the sMS-200 Ultra.  My audio setup is in my living room. 

 

So I meant that removing the bridge, takes out the SOtM-modded switch.

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