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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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8 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

This would be a good time for me to step back and explain my thinking here. I can see it is causing some confusion.

 

First of all, the kit I listed is the aggregate of my and Eric's gear. I would never dream of buying all this stuff myself! Our respective chains are:

  • Rajiv: modded Zyxel switch > modded sMS-200 > tX-USBultra
  • Eric: modded Dlink switch > sMS-200ultra > dX-USBultra (and a Singxer SU-1)

 

So, the theme of the exercise this week is  - now that we have all this gear at our collective disposal, let's take the opportunity to answer some what-if questions!

 

We have already established on my chain that going from 2 reclockings (modded sMS-200) to 3 (add tX-USBultra) to 4 (add modded switch) each added sonic value, and staggering value, at that. Yes, this adds cost, and I'll come back to that. But the question that remains is - what lies beyond 4? 

 

Roy is going down the path of looking upstream, at reclocking his music server, and even his broadband router and modem. What our collection of gear allows us to do is to add a 5th and 6th reclocking, but still downstream of the music server. The purpose of this experiment is simple exploration. Whether or not the findings warrant additional spending is a completely orthogonal consideration.

 

Which brings us to cost. Let's consider a baseline that is quite typical for folks here at CA: a microRendu (+LPS-1) and an ISO-Regen (+LPS-1). Adding up the cost, this works out to about 1690 USD. Contrast this with what I consider the best value SOtM trifecta here - https://sotm-usa.com/collections/ultra-series-mods/products/sms-200-mod-tx-usbultra?variant=40555632908 - and add in a couple of LPS-1s to power. That comes out to 2540 USD.  This is a difference of 850 USD.

 

(Clarification: I know I have 3 LPS-1s in my chain, but I am finding the 3rd isn't strictly necessary, and I may repurpose it elsewhere.)

 

How much of an improvement (or how different) is the Ultra trifecta over the mR/IR baseline? I'll be able to study this when I receive my loaner IR in a few weeks, along with borrowing Eric's mR if he still has it. There are other experiments of interest with the IR, but from a cost perspective, this is the crux (pun intended) of the matter.

 

For me personally, it would take a significant SQ jump to convince me to spend more on this digital front end of my chain. While the outcome of this study will provide interesting insights, it may not correlate with where the next $500 or $1000 I spend on my audio chain will go. Should I spend more here, or say upgrading my DAC or amp? These are personal choices that we all have to make.

Rajiv,

Just to clarify:

You mean for equal SQ, LPS-1 for the modded switch is not necessary but necessary for the 200Ultra & the txUltra, right?

 

If so, this is a great news and money can be spent elsewhere.

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21 minutes ago, greenleo said:

Rajiv,

Just to clarify:

You mean for equal SQ, LPS-1 for the modded switch is not necessary but necessary for the 200Ultra & the txUltra, right?

 

If so, this is a great news and money can be spent elsewhere.

 

I found that I could share an LPS-1 set at 7V (using a Y-cable) to power both my Zyxel modded switch, and the modded sMS-200. There is a slight increase in SQ by powering each with their own LPS-1, but not worth the $400 extra in my opinion.

 

Note: The above is true for a modded sMS-200, not for the sMS-200ultra, since I don't have the latter. If it's like the tX-USBultra, I suspect it draws close to the capacity of the LPS-1, as the LPS-1 powering my tX-USBultra gets pretty hot by itself.

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2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I found that I could share an LPS-1 set at 7V (using a Y-cable) to power both my Zyxel modded switch, and the modded sMS-200. There is a slight increase in SQ by powering each with their own LPS-1, but not worth the $400 extra in my opinion.

 

Note: The above is true for a modded sMS-200, not for the sMS-200ultra, since I don't have the latter. If it's like the tX-USBultra, I suspect it draws close to the capacity of the LPS-1, as the LPS-1 powering my tX-USBultra gets pretty hot by itself.

Thanks.  Probably the inherent GI provided by Ethernet has lessened the need of the PSU and the double superclock helps.

 

I concur that LPS-1 when powering txUltra is pretty hot.  Is it because the mobo of the clock is in the txUltra?  Maybe the users of 200Ultra may share their experiences.

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9 hours ago, greenleo said:

Do you like the ultra combo?  Which is the master?

I haven't sent either to SOtM to use the extra clocks.  I think I need to invest in higher end power supplies because the SOtM Ultra combo doesn't sound any better than the mRendu/Recovery combo so far.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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25 minutes ago, Bamber said:

I haven't sent either to SOtM to use the extra clocks.  I think I need to invest in higher end power supplies because the SOtM Ultra combo doesn't sound any better than the mRendu/Recovery combo so far.

I don't understand.  Do you mean your txUSBUltra is an stand alone version that has the super clock on its own and the same applies to the sms200Ultra as well?

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34 minutes ago, greenleo said:

Do you mean your txUSBUltra is an stand alone version that has the super clock on its own and the same applies to the sms200Ultra as well?

Yes they are both Ultra with their own sCLK-EX clock module.  So I have 2 spare clocks in the sMS-200ultra and 3 spare in the tX-USBultra.  I had plans for these spare clocks but that is now on hold.  I need to upgrade my power supplies before deciding to go further with the SOtM chain.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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2 hours ago, Bamber said:

Yes they are both Ultra with their own sCLK-EX clock module.  So I have 2 spare clocks in the sMS-200ultra and 3 spare in the tX-USBultra.  I had plans for these spare clocks but that is now on hold.  I need to upgrade my power supplies before deciding to go further with the SOtM chain.

 

In your opinion then, the sMS Ultra devices together don't sound better than the microRendu?  And when you say Recovery, what do you mean exactly? v2.5?

Did you send your sMS to @austinpop ?

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3 hours ago, Bamber said:

I haven't sent either to SOtM to use the extra clocks.  I think I need to invest in higher end power supplies because the SOtM Ultra combo doesn't sound any better than the mRendu/Recovery combo so far.

 

That is surprising and disappointing, I'm sure.

 

Sorry - I'm on a mobile device, so can't see your sig, where you may have this listed.

 

What are the PSUs you are using currently for:

- mR

- RUR (Recovery)

- sMS-200ultra

- tx-USBultra?

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36 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

In your opinion then, the sMS Ultra devices together don't sound better than the microRendu?  And when you say Recovery, what do you mean exactly? v2.5?

Did you send your sMS to @austinpop ?

 

Now I see the Recovery (RUR) is the Wyred4Sound device.  Wasn't aware of this reclocker.

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22 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Now I see the Recovery (RUR) is the Wyred4Sound device.  Wasn't aware of this reclocker.

Yes the RUR, my mRendu is still on v2.4.  I didn't bother upgrading knowing I would be replacing it with the SotM or possibly the uRendu.

 

The SotM combo is more detailed but not natural sounding at this stage.

 

My 12v power supplies are all low end Teddy Pardo 12/2, McRU 12V and a Zero Zone 12V, at least compared to Romaz's PHs.

 

My intention was to order 4 x Paul Hynes SR7DRXLs.  I had already ordered and paid for 1 x SR7DRXL to test before committing to a further 3.

 

The snag was that I wanted a black chassis to match everything else in my rack as due to the size they aren't easily hidden away.  Paul told me that his chassis supplier has to send the original aluminium chassis away for re-anodising with the black finish.  I was prepared to wait 2 or 3 months but feared my request for a black chassis may push this back further.  Paul was kind enough to cancel my order as he hadn't ordered any parts so it had cost him nothing.

 

So I'm researching other power supplies so I can get the best from the SotM chain.  Ideally, I'd like to have a good power supply in place within a few weeks.

 

@austinpop and @limniscate have enough SOtM kit between them to test most combinations.  I think they will have more clocks in the chain than even Romaz :)

 

I did get Alex to send an ISO Regen (LPS-1) so they could test this in their chain.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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23 minutes ago, Bamber said:

My 12v power supplies are all low end Teddy Pardo 12/2, McRU 12V and a Zero Zone 12V, at least compared to Romaz's PHs.

 

To complete the picture, what power supplies are you using with the mR and Recovery?

 

Regarding PSUs - in our tests this week, we should be able to validate if 2xLPS-1s in series, set to 7v and 5v respectively, can adequately power the 12v Ultra components. I don't see why not.

 

While I'm sure the SR7DRXL is in a class by itself, the 2xLPS-1 and the VR Mini's that @mozes uses are certainly fantastic alternatives, available within a week or two rather than several months.

 

Also - I know SOtM has mentioned (i.e. Lee to Roy) that the 12V versions sound better, but it would be nice to validate that. But you would really need 2 sMS or tX Ultra components side by side, where the voltage was the only difference, and a variable voltage power supply that could supply both ranges at equal quality.

 

33 minutes ago, Bamber said:

The SotM combo is more detailed but not natural sounding at this stage.

 

This certainly sounds like an artifact of the PSU.

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9 minutes ago, austinpop said:

To complete the picture, what power supplies are you using with the mR and Recovery?

I have used both a LPS-1 (7v) and the a Zero Zone (7v) with iFi DC iPurifier for the mR.  I couldn't hear a difference between these on the mR.  The RuR is running on a (9v) battery.

 

Did your SoTM kit need time to burn in?

 

I've probably used mine for 10 hours so far.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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1 hour ago, Bamber said:

I have used both a LPS-1 (7v) and the a Zero Zone (7v) with iFi DC iPurifier for the mR.  I couldn't hear a difference between these on the mR.  The RuR is running on a (9v) battery.

 

Did your SoTM kit need time to burn in?

 

I've probably used mine for 10 hours so far.

I suppose a 200Ultra powered by LPS-1 with SQ should be better than your mR+RUR combo.  Have u tried that?

 

Because the txUltra is a stand alone version, mR + txUltra should give a SQ boot.

 

Have u just try the above comparisons?

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3 minutes ago, greenleo said:

I suppose a 200Ultra powered by LPS-1 with SQ should be better than your mR+RUR combo.  Have u tried that?

My sMS-200ultra is a 12v version.  I would have to wired 2 x LPS-1s in series and while I could do that for testing, I wouldn't want that solution long term.

 

I have just changed the DC power cable from the original silver one to a shorter Ghent Qyaide Canare 4S8 DC and it has made a difference.  There is more detail with the SoTM combo so once I sort out good power I think I will be happy.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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8 minutes ago, limniscate said:

It has begun!

 

It's a mess!

I hope you don't find having all these devices in the chain at once is amazing :) 

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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7 hours ago, Bamber said:

The snag was that I wanted a black chassis to match everything else in my rack as due to the size they aren't easily hidden away.  Paul told me that his chassis supplier has to send the original aluminium chassis away for re-anodising with the black finish.  I was prepared to wait 2 or 3 months but feared my request for a black chassis may push this back further.  Paul was kind enough to cancel my order as he hadn't ordered any parts so it had cost him nothing.

 

So I'm researching other power supplies so I can get the best from the SotM chain.  Ideally, I'd like to have a good power supply in place within a few weeks.

 

Too bad you are pressed with getting an LPS much sooner.  Aesthetics is important but I really think that this should not get in the way in deciding for a good power supply.  A good power supply can make all the difference in the chain so this is where I will not skimp with.

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Quote

Requirements for optional PSU: 5V/1.5A min

 

Bummer, just a little bit too much for LPS-1 to handle.

 

Anyways, it would be mighty interesting to modify the clock(s) and then replace that short USB cable with USPCB A>B Adapter after ISO REGEN is added:

 

6zMultA.jpg

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37 minutes ago, mozes said:

I think this may be relevant in this thread, the new audiophile LAN card from JCAT.

http://jplay.eu/ml_post_slider/jcat-net-card-femto/

I am very intrigued.  I wonder how this would compare to the SOtM switch mod.

 

I'm also curious about the LP4 connector if you don't use an external LPS.  I think the i350-T2 just uses power from the PCIe slot.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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6 hours ago, Bamber said:

My sMS-200ultra is a 12v version.  I would have to wired 2 x LPS-1s in series and while I could do that for testing, I wouldn't want that solution long term.

 

I have just changed the DC power cable from the original silver one to a shorter Ghent Qyaide Canare 4S8 DC and it has made a difference.  There is more detail with the SoTM combo so once I sort out good power I think I will be happy.

The 4S8 cable does make a difference.  The test of the series LPS-1 to power ur 200Ultra for a few hours would be worth trying, just to find out where the bottlenecks are.

 

My 2 cents.

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1 hour ago, rickca said:

I am very intrigued.  I wonder how this would compare to the SOtM switch mod.

 

I'm also curious about the LP4 connector if you don't use an external LPS.  I think the i350-T2 just uses power from the PCIe slot.

 

Cost is $472 USD without shipping.  If you're using the sCLK board it would probably be cheaper and better synced with your other devices on that board.

 

1 hour ago, greenleo said:

Too bad that LPS-1 cannot be used.

 

If you're using an SR7 or other LPSU for your PC it shouldn't matter that much if at all.

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