A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Always.Learning]

Would there still be a good reason to use optical isolation (FMCs and a run of fiber) in this new implementation?

[Always.Learning]

Rajiv--

 

I just want to say thank you for your overall body of posts and, particularly, these posts describing your experiments with the "Ultra stack." Your combination of logic, empirical method, ability to describe sonic impressions, and (not least of all) humor make for some very entertaining and educational posts. I will continue to follow your journey and reap the benefits.

[Always.Learning]

8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Ultra Trifecta Study Part 3: "I'm sorry I can't do that, DAVE"

 

Here are the results of a very interesting afternoon of critical listening . . .

 

Fascinating stuff, Rajiv. As the owner of a Chord DAVE, I'm surprised at @limniscate's finding that his DAVE had the least amount of impact. I migrated from an Ayre QB-9 DSD to a DAVE and found the delta quite large. I also owned a Schiit Yggy for a brief spell and found it inferior to both the Ayre and DAVE. For what it's worth, I think the consensus among DAVE owners is that it really excels with PCM and DSD is a clear second best. Certainly the designer, Rob Watts, prefers PCM. So you might try setting it to PCM in your next evaluation. 

 

In any event, it's exciting to hear that a lowly modded switch can have the impact you heard. I currently run a switch modded by Paul Pang with a TXCO clock between my server and sMS-200. I wonder if SOtM would be willing to modify it? If not, it's probably worth having them modify another switch based on these results (and pending the results you hear on the Maggie speaker system). 

[Always.Learning]

26 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

If you have some recommended tunings on the DAVE, please do let us know.

 

I would just recommend that, as the manual makes clear, use the PCM setting for PCM recordings and the DSD setting for DSD recordings. But I don't think DAVE does DSD in true native form, and I think you should at least listen to a few PCM recordings when doing your comparisons. As ElviaCaprice said, Chord dacs are best known for great PCM playback. You don't need to worry about upsampling options or filters; DAVE does all that internally. 

 

I assume you were listening to your headphones via DAVE's headphone out? Or were you sending the signal via interconnects to your Cavalli headphone amp? If the latter, then you are no doubt losing some transparency. DAVE's headphone out simply grabs the signal that comes straight from the dac; there is no separate headphone amplification stage. This is the purest, most transparent way to listen to DAVE with headphones. 

 

Regarding the HF filter on DAVE, I prefer to leave it on. I personally don't think it makes a significant difference.

 

Finally, you should make sure that when you are using DAVE on speakers (as opposed to headphones), the Crossfeed setting is set to zero. The Crossfeed setting appears only when headphones are plugged in, but once it is set, it remains in effect even when listening to speakers. If you happen to leave the setting on when listening to speakers, you will get crosstalk on your stereo channels, which tends to muddy the sound and degrade the soundstage. 

 

I'm looking forward to the reports from your speaker-based listening session. 

 

 

[Always.Learning]

20 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Ok thanks.

 

We listened to a mix of DSD and PCM tracks.

 

No, we didn't use the HA on the DAVE, just fed via balanced XLR to the Cavalli. I would seriously doubt the DAVE HA could match the Cavalli, but in any event, the intent was to only switch DACs while holding everything else constant.

I understand that it would make sense to go with what you know and that it made sense to use the Cavalli when comparing DACs. 

 

And I know the Cavalli is a great headphone amp. But if the DAVE makes another appearance in your home, or you bring your headphones to lemniscate's home, you MUST listen to DAVE's headphone out. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at just how transparent the music is.

 

Roy (Romaz) and many others have reached this same conclusion--i.e., that DAVE is basically the most transparent headphone amp on the planet--on the insanely long Chord DAVE thread on head-fi. 

[Always.Learning]

11 hours ago, austinpop said:

Let's focus this discussion to what this thread is about - Roy's incredible trailblazing findings. What I can say is that the improvements we heard with the sub-$2k Ultra trifecta was way more dramatic than the improvement we heard going from the Codex to the DAVE DAC. No judgements - this is just what 2 of us both heard.

Agreed. And thank you for reporting your impressions -- this is indeed good news on the affordability front. 

[Always.Learning]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

I am using 2 LPS-1s, each set to 7v - 1 powering the modded switch and modded sMS-200, and 1 powering the tX-USBultra.

Rajiv--

 

It seems you are using a Y cable on the LPS-1 that is powering both the modded switch and the modded sMS-200. Can you tell us where you got the Y cable, how much it cost, and what other options, if any, you considered?

 

Thank you.

[Always.Learning]

4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Sure, happy to.

 

This is the Y-cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q8IKRE, but I plan to make my own soon using Canare 4S6 as per the DIY cables thread. Just haven't had the time.

 

The other option I considered was to use separate LPS-1s for the switch and the sMS-200. However, upon searching all my cupboards and drawers, I came up one LPS-1 short. Further digging under my sofa cushions for spare change still left me about $393.25 short to buy another LPS-1.

 

 

Ha! Love the humor and the quick response. My next question was going to be whether you thought there might be a sonic improvement with separate LPS-1's powering the switch and sMS-200. And it would appear that your answer is:  I don't know (but if I win the lottery, I'll find out quickly). 

 

I guess the real takeaway is that, despite any potential sonic negatives from using the Y cable, you still heard very significant improvements when adding the switch, and so any additional improvements from using a third LPS-1 in your "Ultra Stack" would just be icing on the cake. 

 

[Always.Learning]

I recently ordered an "Ultra stack" of sMS-200 Ultra, tX-USB Ultra, and the modded Ultra D-Link switch supplied by Crux Audio. I also ordered two lengths of dCBL-Cat7 ethernet cable. The plan is to power the tX with a dedicated LPS-1 and power the combination of the sMS-200 and switch with another LPS-1 and Y cable. I am trading in my 5-month old sMS-200 (unlike some here, I found the trade-in package offered by Crux/SOtM to represent fair value). The only reclocking cable in this scenario is a cable connecting the tX-USB Ultra to the modded switch, and I was told that it would be 20cm long (by Crux Audio). 

 

At the same time I'm upgrading a Mac Mini to MMK status, to be powered by a JS-2. All this will feed into a Chord DAVE. I will report my impressions when this is in place, but I don't expect that to happen until mid-July, as I have travel plans and I have not even sent my old sMS-200 to Crux Audio yet (or modified the Mac Mini). 

[Always.Learning]

3 hours ago, sadekkhalifa said:

Are you sure you can power both sMS-200Ultra and ULTRA D-Link switch using a single LPS-1 and Y-cable

 

We'll find out. Either way, I'll report back. I have some other options if it doesn't work, including yet another LPS-1. 

[Always.Learning]

Yesterday I received the final part of my "Ultra trifecta" package from SOtM. I had hoped to be able to run both the SOtM-modded switch (a D-Link supplied by Crux Audio) and the sMS-200 Ultra from a single LPS-1 using a Y-cable supplied by Ghent Audio. I had SOtM modify the switch so that it accepts a 7 volt power supply so that I could (theoretically) run the LPS-1 at 7 volts for both switch and sMS-200 Ultra. I can now confirm that this combination is just too great a load for the LPS-1 -- the power supply would alternately power on and off when I hooked up both components with the Y-cable. Just powering the sMS-200 Ultra, the LPS-1 gets quite toasty. 

 

I know Rajiv has successfully used an LPS-1 and Y cable to power his modded sMS-200 and modded Zyxel switch, but he was very careful to point out that the sMS-200 Ultra might require more power. He was right. 

 

I now have another question for Rajiv and anyone else who wants to chime in. I will be purchasing another LPS-1 so that I can power my modified Ultra switch at 7 volts. I'm also thinking of purchasing the ISO REGEN and using my Y-cable to power both the Ultra switch and the ISO REGEN at 7 volts. IIRC, Rajiv has successfully run both his modified Zyxel switch and ISO REGEN using a Y-cable and LPS-1. Rajiv, could you confirm that this is true? Does anyone else have relevant opinions or feedback?

 

Although I have only had one short listening session with the tX-USB Ultra and sMS-200 Ultra in my system and the components are (obviously) still burning in, I easily heard very significant improvements from these two components. Some of those improvements may be due to the new SOtM dCBL-Cat7 ethernet cable I am running between source and sMS-200 Ultra. FWIW, my source is a Mac Mini with the MMK mod by Uptone, powered by Uptone's JS-2, running Roon. I'm looking forward to inserting the Ultra-fied switch and possibly ISO REGEN in the future and will report back. 

 

 

[Always.Learning]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I've not actually tried that - running the switch and the ISO-R off of the same LPS-1.

 

Rajiv -- thank you for the information and advice. A question for you:  Your sig says you are running 3 LPS-1s and yet, unless I'm mistaken, you are powering four components with these three power supplies:  the Ultra trifecta plus the ISO REGEN, correct? So doesn't that mean that two of those components are sharing an LPS-1, or are you using a different supply for one of the components (e.g., the switch)? How do you avoid the "moat" issue you describe above?

[Always.Learning]

4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Hope this helps.

 

Yes, thanks for the typical thorough and intelligent reply!

[Always.Learning]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a cheap linear power supply or battery supply that could supply 7 volts to power my SOtM-modified switch -- I'd like to conduct the experiment that Rajiv has suggested a few posts above. My first thought was a Jameco LPS but they don't seem to make a 7 volt version. Any and all suggestions appreciated!

[Always.Learning]

Thanks for the generous offers on power supplies, Rajiv and Ken! Now that I think about it, I've actually got a 5v Jameco that I could try. And I will of course try spanning the moat with the LPS-1 -- assuming a negligible or zero sonic hit, that would be my preference. My DAC is a Chord DAVE, so I'm hoping that its own galvanic isolation will help (though I recall someone saying that they preferred to turn on the GI with their ISO REGEN even when using the DAVE). 

[Always.Learning]

I own a Crayon Audio integrated amp (CFA 1.2) that has a switching power supply, manufactured in China (the amp itself is manufactured in Germany). I've owned amps by Shindo and Bakoon and have had earlier versions of Vinnie Rossi's SS amps in my system. The Crayon is extremely quiet and transparent and does a lot of other things at a very high level. Best not to be dogmatic. 

[Always.Learning]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

BTW - for those of you with the SMB clock connectors on your SOtM Ultra gear, what SMB cables are you using? I'm thinking of these 6" (15cm) cables:

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cinch-connectivity-solutions-johnson/415-0003-006/J1206-ND/456993

 

Context: I'm sending in my hardwired trifecta in a few weeks, to be refitted with SMB connectors, and a master clock input.

Rajiv--

 

I am using this Digikey 12 inch SMB cable between my sMS-200 Ultra and D-Link switch:

 

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/cable-assemblies/coaxial-cables-rf/456?k=J1212-ND&pkeyword=&FV=ffe001c8&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

 

It replaced the much longer SOtM SMB cable. I didn't bother to make any listening comparisons. The Digikey is shorter, and thus I assumed better, and it cost about $30 shipped. Works as advertised. 

 

Jon

[Always.Learning]

48 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

 

Any ideas on how to measure surface temperature accurately?

 

No it's too hot to touch for more than a few seconds.

I have two LPS-1s that are powering my sMS-200 Ultra and tX-USB Ultra. I just put my fingers on each and, while they are toasty, I can hold my fingers there indefinitely. However, about ten days ago we had a heat wave in Seattle and our house is not air conditioned. The inside temp was almost 20 degrees (F) hotter (mid-80s) than it is today and the LPS-1s were running really hot -- so hot that I shut down the system and the LPS-1s. 

[Always.Learning]

9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

After a 5 month wait my Paul Hynes SR7 is finally built and should ship next week.  Good news for anyone who's placed an order since April.  Once I get it I'll post results.

 

 

Johnseye--

 

I have been waiting over five months for my Paul Hynes SR5 for my phono stage and just posted about the problems I have had contacting Hynes in the General Forum here. Hynes has not answered a single email since I sent payment on March 29. Have you been able to contact him? What sort of communication did you have with him after you sent funds? Any suggestions for me?

 

Jon in Seattle

[Always.Learning]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

Did you pay him?  All my communication has been by email.  He is often unresponsive for days or weeks but after I follow up he eventually replies.  All I have to say after this, is that the PSU better be worth it.  Incredibly expensive, upfront payment to an individual you don't know and an incredibly long wait.  I knew it would be a long wait going into it, but I thought a month or two.  It's turned into 5.  In no other circumstance would I ever front someone who I don't know thousands of dollars to build me something a few people on the Internet say is good.  Had communication been good that would have made the experience more palatable, but it hasn't been.  Granted, he lives on a sparsely populated island off of Scotland, but they have the Internet.   I'm only being bluntly honest here.

Yes, I paid him $1214 USD on March 29. Despite a half dozen or more attempts to reach him by email since then, I have had zero replies to my emails. No communication whatsoever, despite the fact the before I sent the funds, we exchanged about a dozen emails over a one-week period. I also tried calling him, using the phone number on his out-of-date website, and got a recorded message that the line was no longer working. 

 

I've been using the email [email protected]. Has he replied to you with this email? Can you tell me what date you sent him funds and what date you expect to receive your power supply? 

 

Unhappy in Seattle

[Always.Learning]

This post will be of interest mostly to those who are using SOtM Ultra products or are contemplating purchasing them, especially those who are also looking at the Iso Regen and thinking about combining the SOtM and Uptone products. 

 

I have the SOtM Ultra "trifecta" of switch, sMS-200, and tX-USB. I also have an Iso Regen and five USB cables including a Lush (borrowed from a friend for some long-term listening), a USPCB, an Audience, a generic SOtM that shipped with the Ultra products, and a $5 Tripp Lite with ferrite chokes. I've been playing around with placement of the Iso Regen and placement of the various USB cables. 

 

First, I will say that the addition of the Iso Regen (I received a replacement Iso Regen with a new board after the first one was plagued with ticking noises) makes a fairly big and positive difference. Anyone who has already invested $ in SOtM products should consider the relatively small additional investment in an IR. There are times when the Ultra products alone sound a little too analytical or lacking in color, tonal density, and body. The IR adds body, liquidity, flow, weight, and greater mid-bass and bass impact. When combined with the Ultra trifecta's refinement, detail, clarity, airiness, ambience retrieval, and precision, you've got a winning combination. 

 

Second, I compared the Iso Regen directly into my Chord DAVE via the USPCB vs. the Iso Regen in between the sMS-200 Ultra and tX-USB Ultra. I prefer the latter, with the tX-USB Ultra immediately before the Chord DAVE. With the Lush USB connecting the tX-USB Ultra and my Chord DAVE, I hear better tonality and timbre and better retrieval of air and space. It's a smoother, more engaging sound. I could see how people with different priorities might prefer the Iso Regen feeding their DAC.

 

Third, I compared various USB cables in various locations. These changes were less impactful than the addition of the Iso Regen. I preferred the Lush to the Audience when both were feeding the DAVE. The Lush captured the flow and tonality of instruments in a more authentic, musical way. I narrowly preferred the Audience to the SOtM USB cable when connecting the sMS-200 and tX-USB; the Audience was a little smoother and sounded more beautiful. Note that the Audience retails for $900 and the SOtM was "free" with the purchase of the Ultra products. I only used the USPCB in conjunction with the Iso Regen, as I couldn't make it work physically in other configurations. I have, however, heard the USPCB directly compared to the Lush in a friend's system, and they both have their strengths:  the USPCB is very clean and crisp with great transient fidelity; the Lush brings more tonality, harmonics, and body to the music. If you can make the USPCB work in your system, it's a great bargain. 

 

I'm a musical omnivore but I used three pieces of music to do most of my comparisons:  solo piano (Pascal Roge playing Debussy's Preludes); Manu Katche's Neighbourhood album on ECM; and Simon Rattle and the BPO playing Mahler 9.  

 

I ended up preferring this signal chain: 

 

Late 2012 Mac Mini (with Uptone mods) in "bridged ethernet" mode and running Roon off SD card, powered by JS-2 (which also powers my router for Tidal streaming) and with external hard drive on different circuit and in different room than rest of system  > BJC Cat6a ethernet > Paul Pang switch with TXCO clock (in same room as Mac Mini) powered by Jameco LPS > long run (80 ft) of generic Cat6a ethernet > SOtM dcblCat7 ethernet > D-Link switch modified by SOtM (powered by LPS-1) > SOtM dcblCat7 ethernet > SMS-200 Ultra (powered by LPS-1) (reclocking the modified switch with Digikey SMB cable) > Audience USB > ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1) > USPCB > tX-USB Ultra (powered by LPS-1)  >  Lush USB > Chord DAVE > HiFiMan HE 1000 headphones; or alternatively > High Fidelity Cable CT-1 Enhanced interconnect > Crayon CFA 1.2 integrated amp > Daedalus/WyWires speaker cables > Daedalus Athena speakers

 

Power:  Shunyata and Audience cables and conditioner; dedicated circuits with 10-gauge wire; HFC MC 0.5 Wave Guide

 

Vibration:  extensive use of Stillpoints and bamboo; Finite Elemente rack and isolation feet

 

Room treatment:  Stillpoints Aperture; A/V Roomservice acoustic room treatment; Acustica Applicata Diffusion Absorption Audio Device

[Always.Learning]

37 minutes ago, magnuska said:

Thanks for the write up. Have enyojed the ISO Regen/LPS -1 bundle a couple of days combined with soTm sms 200 ultra and TX USB Ultra , it is a large jump in SQ. I don`t have the clocked switch though. Feeding the internal DAC in my Vinnie Rossi integrated LIO amp.

 

No Lushcable but 2 very good USB cables from Triode Wire Labs TWL, ( Strange that these are not seen here more often) They are perhaps more famous for their powercables. 

 

 

 

 

Have you experimented with placement of the Iso Regen?

[Always.Learning]

On 9/7/2017 at 11:22 AM, limniscate said:

I haven't received mine yet either and paid at the end of May.  He has responded to my emails though.

I already posted this in my separate thread on customer service problems with Paul Hynes, but I did hear from him a few days ago for the first time in over five months. Apparently my PSU will be shipping within a week or so. Yay! As I said in the other thread, I have never questioned Paul's good faith but I do question his attention to customer service. That said, you can probably count on a world class PSU as long as you are willing to wait a very long time, pay lots of $ up front, and live with spotty (at best) communication. I will report back when the PSU gets here. 

[Always.Learning]

2 minutes ago, magnuska said:

 

No, I followed Austinpop and mozes recommendations in the mighty " massive " thread. Check out the index and read all about it If you have missed that.

I thought Rajiv and mozes differed in their opinion on where to best place the IR, with Rajiv voting for between the sMS-200 and tX-USB (where I think it sounds best too) and mozes voting for right before the DAC. But I may not be recalling that correctly. 

[Always.Learning]

4 minutes ago, magnuska said:

Glad you seem to receive it soon after long wait.

May I ask what Hynes version this is and what you will power?

I have been in contact with PH myself discussing a SR5 M2 powering boths my sotm sms-200 and my 19 v audioserver,

Nothing descided yet.

I haven't received it yet.

 

This is a custom SR5 with 48 volts of output to power my phono stage.