A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[ASRMichael]

Hi, not sure if this is the right place on the forum or not but I seen Romas talking about NUC motherboards. Nuc7i7bnh

 

My TLS db-7 uses a Akasa plato case. Looks really cheap and nasty. I have searched for other options, but nothing I see that can fit. If i was to say, I don't necessary have a budget, but if it was top end would anyone have any recommendations of better pc case?

 

Thanks in advance

[ASRMichael]

Hi, I am looking for advice/recommendations/thoughts with regards to new build I am planning. After the TLS issues I want to make sure I get this right this time..... Here are my initial thoughts...

• One box server
• Existing HDplex H5 case or other recommendations?, higher TDP?
• Mother board - Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Extreme MB, 16 Phases IR digital VRM (My understanding is lower noise output)
• CPU - Intel i9900k (run at 3.6gz base clock) (95 TDP)
• Existing JCAT Ethernet Card
• Existing data WD SSD drive
• RAM - 8GB - Apacer 2666 (What model? no idea yet?)
• OXCO Clocks - Modified Motherboard clocks for USB+Chipset by Fidelityaudio UK
• LPS - Custom Sean Jacobs 7 Rails in total for everything+Ghent PSU cables
• I'll be running Audiolinux or Euphony
• I'll be using Roon and HQplayer
• USB output to Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker
• I might add GPU at later date to help HQplayer CUDA offload (if required)

The above if more of less an Innuos statement, but would be more powerful, and 4k cheaper. 

 

Thanks in advance

[ASRMichael]

Nenon thanks for your recommendations. Question what's the benefit of having a NAS over SSD drive? I actually have a NAS which is used for a 2nd backup. Cheers

 

Chopin75 thanks also, Yes CPU would be on separate rail. With regards to the Pinkfaun I2s Bridge, would this work using HQplayer upscaling to 128 DSD? 

 

Thanks Gavin1977

 

Cheers 

[ASRMichael]

On 10/7/2019 at 2:04 PM, Nenon said:

 

My recommendation:

- Remove the "WD SSD drive" from this configuration.

- Add an Optane memory card for the OS.

- Get a Synology or similar NAS for your library. For example, the DiskStation DS218 models work great.

- Get a USB card.

   ---- Option #1 - Get a JCAT USB card and power up with a SJ rail.

   ---- Option #2 - Get a PinkFaun USB card with ultraOCXO clock and power up with a SJ rail. You may not need the Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker in that case (the only way to find out is to try it out). Essentially the PinkFaun USB with OCXO clock powered up by SJ rail would be similar to the Innous Phoenix. The only essential difference is that the Innuos powers up the OCXO with a seperate rail, while PinkFaun shares the same power supply rail for the USB and OCXO. You can also try the Intona USB isolator with this configuration. 

- Add a good network switch. 

- I have asked my friend who buys a lot of Apacer products for his company to find out what is the best Apacer non-ECC memory for cases like your. Will post when I get more info. 

 

 

Nenon, you were right....... I have removed the SSD from my server, connected my NAS direct to TLS switch and guess what?? I thought bingo....I know my mind can play tricks, so I asked my wife to play her favourite songs and she asked "what has changed"? I said why? she said "have you spent more money again?" I said no! , she didn't believe me. What she is effectively saying it sounds better!!

 

Cheers

[ASRMichael]

Hi, I have two box setup

 

1) Server - Running Euphony, JCAT Ethernet, Apacer RAM (thanks Nenon)

2) end point The linear solution DB7 with two LPS

 

Here’s my plan for 1 box setup

- I’ve just ordered 7 rail LPS from Dr Sean Jacobs for my server. 
- Add Innuos Phoenix

- Fidelity Audio - add OCXO clock to cpu/chipset. 
 

So this leaves me surplus to requirement TLS db7 with 2 LPS. I’ve been struggling to sell the TLS (not surprising) so was thinking how best to use this...

 

What’s people’s thoughts on using the TLS instead of NAS? I’ll need to add an M2 SSD, don’t think it supports normal SSD. 
Would it simply be my server running euphony being able to mount the TLS streamer data drive? also running Euphony, could use windows as option if required? 
 

I’ve attached TLS MB for reference
 

Presume this is doable?
 

appreciate comments?

 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, Blake said:

I've been running the Sablon Reserva usb and ethernet cable and love them.  I've been running Sablon power cords to all of my components for a very, very long time (a number of years ago I had borrowed a 6 or so power cables from the Cable Company, together with about another half dozen power cords I had acquired and took a week to extensively compare them head-to-head and Sablon beat them all). 

 

Mark is a great guy.  I placed my order for his new 2020 usb cable.  I'll put my current 2017 Reserva in my second system.  2017 Reserva beat out many usb cables in my head to head comparisons (Light Harmonic 10G, 2G and 1G, Curious, Nordost Blue Heaven, Mapleshade Clearlink, King Rex uArt, iFi Gemini, Cardas, AudioQuest, and TotalDac).  TotalDac is a very good cable as well, but Sablon for me is tops.

 

Hi Blake, I’m awaiting mine also. The fact it compares to Intona Ultimate which cost 4 times the price, really makes this a bargain. Question, do you use Sablon ethernet cables or have you? How do they compare to others? 

[ASRMichael]

There's been a few posts here with regards to the new Sablon USB Cable and on WBF (Romaz review). I have happily been using Curious USB cable for the past year or so. So I thought I would give the Sablon a go. The first 1 minute I new this was the best decision I have made in a long time. I am no good at explaining SQ with cables, all I can say after 5 hours of listening is it's probably the last USB cable I will ever buy.

 

Well done Mark at Sablon for creating such a great USB cable at a sensible price.

[ASRMichael]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:44 PM, Nenon said:

I have been looking at the Taiko Extreme server with huge admiration to Emile. There is no way on earth a DIY-er like me could ever get to the level of engineering and tweaking Emile has done on his server. And romaz does not help with his "actually took only 30 seconds" comment (to realize how good the Extreme is). Okay, maybe one day I will get an Extreme too. But until then I will keep pushing the limits of my DIY servers to see how far we can go. Yes, I have probably spent as much as a new Taiko Extreme on experiments, many of which were not successful. I realize that. But it's a nice hobby, especially in the winter months in Chicago. 

 

A natural thought in my head would be to try some of the components that are used in the Taiko Extreme. That would be without all the incredible things/tweaks Emile has done, which are many. How much of the performance of the Extreme can we get out of the stock components? 10%? 20%? 50%? 80%? No one knows. Curiosity to try this motherboard and CPUs (Asus WS C621E Sage with 2X Intel Xeon Silver 4114 CPU) kept growing and growing. But there are at least 3 challenges with that:

1. Power - you have to power up not one but two high powered CPU with clean power. There are some linear power supplies that can do that - Paul Hynes Designs and Sean Jacobs have high current linear power supplies. Farad is working on one. Marcin is also working on something. The HDPlex 800W DC to DC can also be a good option in addition to a high current power supply.
2. Passive cooling case for the extended ATX size motherboard. Turemetal UP10 is the only suitable case I know. Expensive but there is a solution.
3. RAM. Taiko Extreme uses custom high quality RDIMM RAM. And this is the biggest problem. We now know how much difference the RAM makes. And I would not want to invest so much into such build only to put some bad quality RAM modules in it. Our favorite manufacturer, Apacer, does not produce industrial wide-temperature RDIMM RAM. And that is the main reason I never bought that Asus WS C621E Sage motherboard.

Well, after long discussions with Apacer, they spec’ed custom wide temperature industrial memory for me and are willing to run one small custom batch of it. It has the same specs as the ECC RAM that sounds best. I am getting it! Taiko uses 12 x 4 GB. I am planning to get two sets. So far, there is no indication that this memory would be produced as a regular product, besides this custom batch, but you never know. However, I will not miss the opportunity.  If anyone else is interested, please ping me on PM.

 

 

Nenon

 

I’m really looking forward to you testing the Asus WSC621E Sage with to CPU’s. 

 

Early stage questions? 
 

- Are the two CPU’s powered independently? E.g. could be powered by 2 x Sean Jacobs 5a LPS? 
- With 2 CPU’s does this mean it can run two operating systems at one time? E.g. can run Stylus on one & run Stylus EP on another? Effectively having a server & endpoint in one box? 
- With so many cores/threads realistically it can isolate most if not all Euphony processes? 
- the other question is? Why does the T Extreme have so much RAM? Presumably the RAM can be isolated like RAM when using windows? If so maybe this can be future Euphony development. 
 

I was planning upgrading my MB & CPU (intel i9), I’m now going to hold off! 
 

keep up the great work mate. 
 

p.s. please create a new thread “Building DIY Server 2” highly anticipated indeed! 

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

Yes that's what I was thinking of and its a year old not one month. Thanks for the clarification.

It was wrong. In paid nearly £600 last week, so $750 sounds about right. This is my last cable i will own. Both USB & Ethernet are fantastic! 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, kennyb123 said:

I wish I could tell you, but I think your ears would tell you right away as the treble would be too hot if there was over-saturation.  
 

Amazon made this really easy for me to try different attenuators as returns were super easy.  

Hi, I thought I was finished today with my network & then I  seen your post “attenuators” thought what is this? I’m new to fiber (today)
 

My setup, do I need attenuators?

 

Edge Router sfp——-- MGB-TLX Planet Mini GBIC LX Module 20km (-40 to 75 C), (both ends)——-1m OM3 Aqua Fibre Optic LC LC Duplex MM 50 125 Patch LSZH Cable——-EtherRegen sfp

 

Any advise would be appreciated?

[ASRMichael]

3 minutes ago, Frojo said:

Duplex MM - multimode?

Given my extremely limited understanding, you wouldn’t need to ‘attenuate’.

How is your system sounding with the new fibre connection in place?

I am interested as it would be very similar to the set up I am trying to implement.

To be honest I made far too many network changes today, from VLANS, to WAP’s, Fiber & JCAT filters. I was just wanting to use fiber from router to EtherRegen. Like you I have no idea. 

[ASRMichael]

Yes up & running, difficult to know where sound benefit has come from with so many changes. Will test v ethernet in coming days. 
 

I do prefer to listen for few days then revert back to old setup then judge. 

[ASRMichael]

Are people using single or multi mode cables? If so why? 
 

I bought a multi mode cable without knowing there was different version. 
 

I’m using 1m multi mode cable with planet sfp’s to EtherRegen

[ASRMichael]

57 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

There are so many combinations one can try. If you have the time to experiment, by all means do it ... and please report back your findings. If not, here is what works really good with my etherREGEN:

- PlanetTech MGB-TLX transceivers.

- No attenuators.

- Single mode fiber cable, 10 meters or more. I use 10m even if I only need 1m.

 

That works pretty good for me, and although I have about 50 transceivers I can try, I am resisting that at the moment in favor of other more important tests. 

 

Honestly, the ethernet cable makes a much bigger difference in my system. 

Thanks as always Nenon

 

I’ve now ordered 10m Single mode fiber cable. 

 

I’ve recently upgraded my Ethernet cables to Sablon, well on;

 

NAS - Sablon 1m ethernet- ER-a side

B side ER - Sablon - 0.5 - Server

 

Fiber is used from Edge Router - ER SFP (VLAN).

 

I’ve spent all day switching between Fiber & Ethernet. What I hear so far is less noise, no good at explaining sq. Fiber is staying. 
 

Point to note, I was not using Sablon for the test, as I don’t have 3, but used £100 cable & JCAT isolator. Not sure if using a Sablon would bring sq closer to fiber. 
 

I now use the JCAT for my local LAN & Ubiquity WAP’s. 

 

Currently planning on changing local LAN to fiber, either with Ubiquity Edge switch (2sfp ports) or SOTM (2 sfp ports). 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

34 minutes ago, Cipollae said:

 

Hello everyone

 

Just arrived!  Found this forum after reading Rajiv's excellent review of the iFi Pro iDSD.  As it happens, that is the DAC I recently purchased and I am now thinking of upgrading the power supply.  The Farad Super 3 looks extremely promising (also based on Rajiv's and some other people's reviews here 😃), but I am a little worried the 3A might not be enough - especially since the Pro iDSD comes with a 15V/4A SMPS and iFi suggests a "minimum of 60VA rating".  However, the same goes for Rajiv's Chord TT2 and he seems to be using the Farad without any issues nonetheless.  

 

Would anyone be willing to comment on whether it might be unwise to go for the Farad?  Would the Paul Hynes SR5 perhaps be a safer option?  Or am I being overcautious because the Pro iDSD will never draw 4A with normal use?

 

Greatly looking forward to your insights!

 

Many thanks

All Sean Jacobs DC3? All this LPS are double regulated. 5amp also Lots of members here use his LPS. 

[ASRMichael]

21 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Here comes the €1500 OPTIMO 3 DUO with 2 separate LT3045-regulated rails @ 3A, available voltages should be 5V / 9V / 12V

 

https://jcat.eu/product/optimo-3-duo/

https://jcat.eu/JCAT_OPTIMO3DUO_manual.pdf

 

If 5V / 1.5A were good enough, then it might make sense to order 9V and then add DXP-1A5DSC (9V → 7V → 5V) afterwards

 

https://www.ldovr.com/product-p/dxp-1a5dsc.htm

 

Similarly, 9V / 1.5A is a better bet when we're adding DXP-1A5DSC (12V → 10.5V → 9V) accordingly.

 

As always the question is what we could expect from OPTIMO 3 DUO when compared to the latest DC4 Power Supply from Dr. Sean Jacobs as well as the legendary SR7 DR.

 Listening to what Sean told me about his new DC4, and price point, I think his will at top of the tree! Time will tell....

[ASRMichael]

JCAT XE 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

15 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Would you like to share the price point?

Thanks

 

Matt

Contact Sean and ask for a price, price will depend what you looking for, 1rail? 7?

[ASRMichael]

16 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Would you like to share the price point?

Thanks

 

Matt

Prices now on his site

 

http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/dc4-power-supply

[ASRMichael]

I think it’s fair to say you can’t call anything a bargain until you compare both, otherwise we would be saying the Innous Statement is a bargain against the Taiko Extreme! Would be interesting to see head to head! Until then I won’t be judging 

[ASRMichael]

29 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

The Innous Statement was compared by stereophile not with the Taiko extreme, but with the Roon Nucleus +. Between the lines you could read that the Innous was worse. I wouldn't have thought so. 

That’s my point! Until both reviewed side by side, you cannot say one is better than the other, or one os better value than the other. 

[ASRMichael]

4 hours ago, matthias said:

 

This guy from the Wigwam is in the hifi trade and might have some other interests.

 

Looking forward to a comparison SR7 vs. DC4 by @romaz with his Taiko Extreme.

 

Matt

Matt starting to think you have something against SJ?

[ASRMichael]

37 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Well said.  As you and I have discussed, there are dynamics when upsampling with HQPlayer where a 2 box solution may be a better filter for the noise generated by the server. My DAC choice is a Holo Spring R2R where upsampling is critical if not required for optimal listening.  I originally started with one server, a Paul Hynes SR7 powering it, a tX-USBexp and tX-USBultra where everything including the server was reclocked with the sCLK-EX and mastered by a Mutec Ref10.  The processor on that server handles upsampling DSD512 with ease.  A lot went into that build, but it still sounds better with the NUC (also re-clocked by a sCLK-EX and master clocked) as the end point because I believe it filters the noise from HQPlayer's upsampling efforts on the server.

 

We have much extermination to come but the decision to upsample on the server or not, which impacts noise generated by processors, is critical to your architecture. 

Thanks @Nenon& @Johnseye great discussion. 
 

My findings;
 

My TAD D1000 DAC to my ears & choice of sound, sounds better upsampling to HQPlayer DSD 64. But I do think SQ with & without is a matter of choice. With - Full & Bold, without detailed, airy & thin.

I was using two box solution but as soon as I added Sean Jacobs 7 rail LPS & Pink Faun Ultra USB to my server. One box solution sounded better. I appreciate its not a fair comparison as my server now has high end parts whilst my NUC has good parts (ocxo+LPS). The only way to fully test this would be to buy another SJ LPS for NUC & somehow integrate PF Ultra USB, to be honest I just wouldn’t do that, too much risk, also many other places to spend money on, as highlighted by Nenon. 

 

Cheers & stay safe! 

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

So the SJ LPS was one of my next steps.  I began conversations with him but have paused.  The cost of this LPS has made me start thinking about the DAC.  Holo has a couple new models out and there are other options.  When you start looking at over $6k for a power supply you start thinking of where else you'd rather spend it. 😃 

Maybe the answer to that is full circle “a Sean Jacobs LPS” 😜

[ASRMichael]

Yes so many variables indeed! If I knew this before I started I would have stuck with my SME 30/2 Turntable!! 😢