A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[atxkyle]

Well, I'm clearly very late to the party.  But today had the chance to set up the network bridge and am happy with the improvement!  Agree with all the comments about a "veil lifted" - more of a live, present sound.

 

I'm currently just using a standard Dell PC (with 1TB SSD drive) as a Roon server ... has me thinking about what tweaks need to be done if the server also has a big impact on SQ ... 

[atxkyle]

23 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Welcome to the discussion!

 

Glad you experienced the improvement due to bridging. What endpoint are you using (mR/sMS/...)?

 

Do read the index in the first post for pointers to other areas of exploration beyond bridging.

 

I also use a Dell desktop system as my bridged network/Roon server, and one easy improvement I got was by installing AO (Audiophile Optimizer) and Process Lasso (PL), even without any other HW changes.

Thanks!  Although after I made this post I started getting blue screens of death and haven't been able to resolve it yet.  It was a driver error and I ordered a new PCI ethernet card to try instead of the USB-ethernet adapter I was using, so I'm hoping that will do the trick. 

 

I'm using microRendu as an endpoint.  Still the original 1.3 board but considering the update to the 1.4 board.  Haven't looked into other areas of tuning beyond bridging yet, but will look forward to doing so. 

 

Re: the Dell PC, I guess we Austin guys are loyal to the local Dell brand huh? (I live in Austin too if you didn't gather that from my handle).  My PC doubles as office PC and Roon Server.  From a quick look at the AO manual it sounds like it only intended for a dedicated audio PC?  But if its true that microRendu isn't immune to upstream noise, might have to go the dedicated/optimized Roon server route at some point. 

[atxkyle]

On 8/13/2017 at 11:12 AM, austinpop said:

 

Yes, indeed. Awesome to have another Austin based CA'er.

 

 

Yes, correct, since it strips down WIndows to its bare bones, it's best suited for a dedicated PC.

 

Look in the index on the first post for some links to folks' experiences with AO, and other tools like Process Lasso (PL).  This isn't a make or break, just something to consider at some point in your journey.

Thanks for the advice. I decided to get a dedicated Roon server (Intel NUC i3) and am now running it bare bones in Windows server 2012 r2 Essentials in minimal server mode with Audiophile Optimizer.  Also upgraded the microRendu to the 1.4 board with the upgraded clock.  These 2 changes definitely have taken my system to next level!

[atxkyle]

23 hours ago, Lebouwsky said:

Are you saying that the server upgrade by itself (feeding a microrendu) was an upgrade in sound quality? Because if it does, it's one more argument that improving the packet data feeding the microrendu influences the sound. It's in conflict with the statement that the server can be as noisy as can be.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, and it's not at all subtle.  The SQ when feeding mR from bare-bones AO optimized server is MUCH better than when I was just using my office PC.  ( given this, my next step at some point is going to be to feed the Intel NUC a better power supply )

[atxkyle]

Has anyone else using the microRendu experienced frequent network conflicts (manifesting in loss of playback from Roon until you reboot the mR) when using this bridged-connection scheme?  And figured out how to resolve it?  

 

I suspect it has to do with the microRendu using a dynamic connection - static IP not supported in their OS. I contacted Sonore - the response was that they don't/won't support this connection scheme.

[atxkyle]

33 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I've only ever had borrowed mR's for a few weeks at a time, but I've never seen any network issues with bridging, using DHCP with the mR.

 

I don't think the problem and potential solution lie in static IP addressing.

 

If Jesus can't help you, then your last resort is a hail Mary. 

Haha, good one!

 

I don't know what the issue is, but it happens a lot and rebooting the mR always fixes it.  I definitely prefer the sound with the bridged connection, but the frequent mR rebooting is a nuisance.

[atxkyle]

8 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

That's never been an issue here - and I've been running the bridged connection since just after it was suggested in this thread.  

 

I do have a reservation configured in my router for the microRendu so it always picks up the same IP address.

Thanks, kennyb123.  I will try giving it a reservation on my router and see if that helps. 

[atxkyle]

Very interesting last couple days of posts.  Although I have heard the same things as everyone else, I'm still a newbie to this hobby and don't understand the 'why' ... why ethernet network streamers are sensitive to what's upstream.  Or why the server should be sensitive to the file it receives from Tidal via the router.  In my mind, the streamer (or server) should be loading the file data into RAM, and then outputting it to the DAC.  i.e. I'd think the starting point for a music player is always a 'clean' file, and the limiting factor is then how perfectly it can time the output of the 1s and 0s.

 

Also strikes me that at least a few companies have already invested in developing very minimalist, low power, low noise motherboards for network streamers.  Seems like there could be a good market for leveraging the tech from those devices to evolve them into Roon servers (with inputs for super-duper-master-clocks, and careful attention paid to isolating/filtering noise from storage, etc.).  I guess SOtM already has their version of this with the 1000SQ - so are people doing the custom mod servers cause they want something different than the 1000SQ offers, or cause it's less expensive to do the custom (or both)?

[atxkyle]

9 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

The 1000SQ isn't as optimized as the custom builds discussed here. We had a roundtable discussion in the SOtM room with Lee and May, where Roy actually sketched out further suggestions. We'll see if SOtM act on these and enhance their 1000 servers to the level where it can truly be a replacement for what folks like Roy, Elvia et al. have done.

Seems like they have all the tech and at least a bit of scale (more scale than the custom 1-offs) ... sort of a no-brainer and natural evolution for them, one would think. 

[atxkyle]

On 12/15/2017 at 1:15 AM, austinpop said:

My strong suspicion is that what we are hearing is the effect of low phase noise clocks on good ol' fashioned analog noise.

 

Right with ya Rajiv.  I think we discussed, I've often wondered why galvantic isolation and buffering in the DAC doesn't take care of upstream noise and jitter.  But I hear the same things as everyone else - every time I optimize server / network player, my sound gets noticeably better.  It's a mystery to me ... 

[atxkyle]

14 hours ago, jay said:

 

• current Mac Mini (out of the box) with Roon server

If you don’t go the high end server route, might consider getting the Mac Mini server onto a clean power supply and ensuring you have the minimum number processes running on it.  I also use a network streamer (microRendu w 1.4 clock upgrade) but still got some very clear SQ benefits from optimizing my Intel NUC based Roon server (used AudiophileOptimizer to strip down the OS and am powering it with an SoTM sPS-500).

[atxkyle]

Based on the chatter on this thread, I ordered a 32G Optane card and did some A/B testing between it and my Samsung Evo SSD.  This is on my Intel NUC (NUC7i3BNH) server running Roon ROCK.  Music storage is on a USB stick.

 

In my case, the Optane brought a subtle upgrade to imaging/separation and realism. 

 

It took several back and forth changes comparing the same 5-6 tracks to be sure of what I was hearing.  This wasn't nearly as big an improvement as I've experienced with tweaks (e.g. improving power supplies).  However, it was only $60 for the 32G Optane card, and it's nice to get any sort of improvement for that small an investment.  And as a little side bonus, Roon is also running faster for me with the Optane.  

[atxkyle]

3 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Was the Evo SSD a M.2 ? Do you mind giving the actual details of the Samsung drive? 

No, the SSD was a Samsung EVO 850 250GB 2.5 inch SATA III.

[atxkyle]

4 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

OK thanks! That is the same one I use. I see you use intel  CPU, do you also run on windows or linux ? 

I believe Roon ROCK is based on a minimalist Linux OS.  (Plenty of info about it on Roon’s website.)

[atxkyle]

On 6/27/2020 at 3:02 AM, seeteeyou said:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-206#post-655480

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-207#post-655556

 

I'm just thinking out loud here, does it make sense to build a battery-powered robot of some sort (with Raspberry Pi Zero etc.) solely for the purposes of disconnecting / reconnecting the network cable?

 

Raspberry Pi Zero Robot

https://www.instructables.com/id/Raspberry-Pi-Zero-Robot/

 

Build a low-cost Raspberry Pi robot: the components you'll need

https://magpi.raspberrypi.org/articles/build-low-cost-raspberry-pi-robot

Could WiFi be used this way? Turn on to download the track, then turn it off during playback?