A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[BigAlMc]

43 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I've taken the first step to creating an index to this thread,

 

Hi @austinpopmany thanks for doing this. This is one of the best threads out there but at 100+ pages it's very hard to find stuff. 

 

I think this and a few similar threads could do with some sort of "How To" guides. But an Index will definitely help.

 

I'm assuming that you are looking for more expert volunteers than myself but PM me if there's a relatively simple section I can help with.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Attention, propeller-heads! Mad science experiment alert!

 

I am stoked. Barring any last-minute conflicts, @limniscate and I are getting together next week for an SOtM Ultra-vaganza! 

 

Fantastic! Can't wait for the results posts. Great work guys and loads of fun too I'm sure. 

[BigAlMc]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

2-day Ultra-vaganza Report

 

@austinpop / @limniscate - Epic work gents! Sounds like a brilliant weekend of fun and audio discovery.

 

A few selfish items jump off the page from me (although a lot to digest in there).

 

A. As a proud owner of an SU-1 modded for LPS-1 my wallet breathes a sigh of relief that this bit of kit comes out so well in these tests.

 

B. My wallet is slightly more apprehensive when it comes to the prospect of a modded Switch, sCLK-EX & SMS-200(ultra?) kicking my MicroRendu and bog standard switch's asses.

 

Question. In either your lawyer or scientist capacities  do you feel that the switch/SMS combo in B upstream of the SU-1 still add sufficient SQ improvement to justify adding these? My SU-1 outputs I2S to my Directstream DAC so I'm tempted by these improvements but worried they'd get diminished as it's not USB going into the DAC.

 

I guess the other aspect I need to fully figure out is whether it's feasible (and viable in terms of finding someone to do it) to also replace the clock on the SU-1 with the sCLK-EX clock.

 

My wallet starts sweating nervously at this stage because if I could get the BigAlMc 'trifecta' of switch, SMS-200 & SU-1 all sharing the sCLK-EX clock then the case for adding a Ref 10 seems a lot stronger! (Rajiv - I hope I haven't infringed upon your 'trifecta' copyright here. Perhaps you can ask Eric as the lawyer ).

 

Thanks again for such great posts and inspiration here.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

24 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

I already asked SOTM about modding the SU-1 and they said no.

 

Thanks. Yeah I guessed that SOTM might be reluctant as Romaz mentioned they won't modify anyone elses products.

 

I wondered about contacting Tim at Kitsune given they already offer a modded version of the SU-1 to see if this was something they might consider. I assume that the clock mod would be a bit more challenging that replacing the caps and power supply though.

 

Other option is wait for the SU-2 (not sure if that's the name or not - but rumoured replacement of the SU-1) to see what that brings to the table.

[BigAlMc]

Hi @Bamber

 

I'm with you on that one. There is a whole thread dedicated to modding the SU-1 but I think this clock mod would be taking it to another level. From memory the three mods that are all reported to improve the SQ are along the lines of:

 

1. Mod to accept DC power cable from LPS-1  (I've done this via the Kitsune kit and it really makes a big difference)

2. Replace the cheap capacitors on the board with better ones.

3. Replace the power capacitor (I think) on the board with a better one.

 

I haven't done 2 or 3 as suspect they are beyond my technical ability. Would love to try them though.

 

Add 4

 

4. Replace the clock/clocks on the board with the wires to support sCLK-EX clock input

 

If we could find someone in the UK (or Europe I guess) with the skills to attempt these then I'd be willing to pay for including mine in the order and seeing if we could get a bulk order. At a stretch I'd be willing to risk mine becoming a brick to see if this works or not.

 

On paper at least the SQ bump from doing all 4 would be very intriguing.

 

PM me if you find anyone. I'll do likewise.

 

Other option is whether Kitsune or someone will do it in the US. But then we'd really be looking at buying and importing the unit from the US so add another 60-80 quid for courier and some more on top for import duties. Starts to add up.

 

Thanks,

Alan

 

PS See - "My (very) mini review of the Singxer SU-1 DDC" by Tboooe - over in the DAC forum on CA for details and discussion on the other mods

[BigAlMc]

17 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

@scan80269 is doing the SU-1 mods. Just have Tim ship to him. 

Hi @R1200CL, 

 

Yeah but he's doing the capacitor mods. Though I guess worth asking if he thinks the clock mods are doable. 

 

He's in the US too so courier costs might be a factor. 

 

Thanks, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

3 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I don't understand why anyone wants to replace the Crystek 575 in their SU-1.  This clock functions solely for the I2S output and from these testing results is as good or better than the Sclk EX.  

 

Hi @ElviaCaprice, 

 

 

Yeah that's a good point I guess. Might explain in part why the SU-1 sounds so great! 

 

I was thinking purely in terms of synchronising / synergy with the sCLK-EX on the upstream SMS-200 and modded switch. But might actually do more harm than good. 

 

Thanks, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

Yeah some good points raised there (as usual) @austinpop

 

I've discussed some of this stuff on the PS Audio forums as they have a great model where you can interact directly with the designers of the product (like Ted Smith for the Directstream DAC) and the CEO (Paul McGowan).

 

I've even shamelessly asked them when they'll produce an audiophile switch  and then enjoyed it when other PSA customers jump onto that and +1 it....

 

 

[BigAlMc]

14 minutes ago, austinpop said:

From a group perspective, I suspect there will be more than a passing interest in this config:

• modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-R > modded SU-1 > DAC.

 

Hi @austinpop

 

Quick question. If buying the above from SOTM (SU-1 excluded obviously) and asking them to mod a switch as part of that. Would buying an SMS-200ultra still make more sense than buying a cheaper SMS-200 and asking/paying them to mod it for the sCLK-EX?

 

i.e. is the SOTM shopping list:

sCLK-EX

Modded switch

SMS-200  (to be modded)

 

or

 

sCLK-EX

Modded switch

SMS-200ultra

 

Thanks,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I think this link actually allows you to order the combo, if you are US or Australia based. https://sotm-usa.com/collections/ultra-series-mods/products/sms-200ultra-audio-network-player-mods?variant=41281316428

 

Great stuff Rajiv - that really helps! 

 

Thanks,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

Hi @Bamber, 

 

Nice work! +1 on can't wait to get your impressions on the modded SU-1. 

 

Do you have or are you getting an SMS-200 or SMS-200ultra as part of this bold venture? 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

1 minute ago, Bamber said:

I'm not sure how long this takes but hopefully I will be able to give you some feedback in 2 or 3 weeks.

 

I have a SMS-200ultra and am getting that fitted with the switch upgrade and a 75Ω Master Clock connection also.

 

Going "all in" Bamber. Kudos mate! 

[BigAlMc]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Compare mR+ISO-Regen vs Ultra Trifecta - Does adding the ISO-Regen to the mR close the gap relative the SOtM Ultra trifecta?

• Baseline:          Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > tX-USBultra (Ultra Trifecta)
• Comparison:     mR > ISO-Regen
• Result: 
  • Sorry folks, this is still no contest. The Ultra trifecta has significantly better SQ. It will be interesting to see how much further the Ultrarendu closes the gap. As I have maintained, the secret sauce in the trifecta has to be the modded switch.

 

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Bottom line: The Ultra trifecta is still - for me - a  real sweet spot in terms of value for money. If you can swing a bit more, the Trifecta+ISO-Reg

 

@austinpop - Yet another great post!

 

Since I already have an ISO Regen and a MicroRendu - each on LPS-1 then this becomes pretty tempting. Invest in the SMS-200ultra and modded switch. Swap out the MR and old switch and I'm pretty much up and running for approx $1500 (plus whatever I can sell the MR for). Pretty tempting.

 

Main question for me remains the SU-1. Looking forward to seeing how @Bamber gets on with his modded SU-1 as part of this chain.

 

Thanks for the insightful and detailed post.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[BigAlMc]

24 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!

• Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
• Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII

Hi Rajiv, 

 

Thanks for the post. Though I'm not sure I follow the above. 

 

Are the 3 meanwell's the power supplies for your LPS-1 collection? 

 

And the Dectet is a power conditioner. So are you finding that even though the meanwell's are switching PSUs themselves they still benefit from getting a cleaner AC supply? 

 

I'm curious as my serious kit is all on an IsoTek conditioner. Or on LPS-1"s. But the supplies for everything else are on a £50 basic socket with a filter. I forget the name. 

 

So is your hypothesis that "dirty" AC noise still makes it through the LPS-1? 

 

Many Thanks, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

24 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Well if you guys really want an LPS (to energize your UltraCap LPS-1s) that kicks nothing back in to the wall, then the choke-filtered, power-factor corrected JS-2 is about the best you can do.  

 

@Superdad - If my LPS-1 needs a clean power supply then I want a refund! 

 

I'm joking of course Alex. I appreciate the quality and value of your products and will undoubtedly buy more. 

 

But if the Linear PSUs need a better PSU then perhaps its time for a new hobby. Time to dust down the twin cassette player and find the old mixtapes... 

[BigAlMc]

1 minute ago, unbalanced output said:

 

I hope that you just typed this from a notebook which was charged by a LPS charged by a LPS 

It was typed on a battery powered cellphone but using WiFi from a router on an unregulated stock switching PSU.... Aaarrgghhh.... 

[BigAlMc]

4 hours ago, hols said:

you have to go to 

www.phasure.com and register to sign in. Go to Chatter and forum related stuff and you can find the Lush thread and you can post there saying what length you need and Peter will contact you with email afterwards.

 

Hi @sadekkhalifa,

 

I'm not registered at the Phasure forums - but I have looked there a couple times as some interesting stuff going on.

 

But I placed my order yesterday by simply emailing Peter (PeterSt) at:

Sales @ Phasure dot com

 

Peter responded promptly and it was an easy transaction from there.

 

Regards,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

Stay tuned for the next episode of ...

Thanks, Roy.  Another cliffhanger.

 

+1 on that.

 

Can't we fast-forward on Netflix or something! 

[BigAlMc]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

You have done a huge job with that first post Rajiv! Very impressive! ?

+1 on this. Great job Rajiv!

[BigAlMc]

A few questions for @austinpop and other Trifecta users.

 

I'm contemplating getting the SMS-200-Ultra and modded Switch to see whether they can beat my current playback chain:

 

MicroRendu (1.4 board upgrade) > ISO Regen > Singxer SU-1

 

Of course having the ISO Regen and SU-1 on hand would potentially allow me to test different configurations but ideally I'd be looking to replace one 'spaghetti' solution with another rather than making it more convoluted than it already is.

 

A few questions please:

 

1. @austinpop How important is the tX-USBultra within the Trifecta? i.e. is the SMS-200-Ultra and modded switch enough to get going or would you say that the tX-USBultra is also a key ingredient in the spaghetti sauce?

 

2. Does the Trifecta improve Tidal streaming as much as locally stored files? Or is Tidal still at the mercy of the Router. Unlike @romaz (who is going to be sorely missed here ) I doubt i'm in a position to get the router placed close enough to the other stuff to run a different clock on it. 

 

3. I'm sure I read at some point on this epic rollercoaster thread that the SMS-200 and the sCLK-EX was preferable to the SMS-200-Ultra but I'm struggling to find that post. Did I imagine that or can someone remind me of the thinking behind that?

 

Many Thanks,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

Thanks @TopQuark

 

Appreciate the info. 

 

I have an ISO Regen on hand and appreciate what it does but figured that in the Trifecta model the tX-USB-ultra running off the sCLK-ex in setup (so all three are in sync) was perhaps important? Given it seems to be all about clocks. 

 

I thought but am not sure, that having an ISO Regen and/or SU-1 after the 'clocking magic' of the Trifecta might dilute the goodness. 

 

The other mental arithmetic I'm trying to balance is that my Directstream DAC is apparently best on I2S which is why I got the SU-1. But if I make the leap to the Trifecta I'd be looking to go reclocked USB into the DAC to see if the Trifecta magic was sufficient to outperform the SU-1/I2S. 

 

Though I guess I wouldn't know for sure until I factored in a Ref-10 or the upcoming SOtM clock. 

 

More questions than answers! Gotta love this hobby 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

[BigAlMc]

1 hour ago, limniscate said:

@BigAlMc

 

I'm not sure there's a difference between a modded sMS-200 and a sMS-200 Ultra.  One thing Lee did say to us at RMAF is that, in theory, each sCLK-EX board should be using the same frequency for all of the taps.  I think he also said that my setup with two sCLK-EX boards (one in the sMS-200 Ultra and one in the dX-USB Ultra) should be better than @austinpop's setup, but we haven't noticed any significant differences.

Thanks Eric, 

 

Appreciate the feedback. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

In that case, you could do something like this:

1. modded switch > sMS-200ultra > dX-USB HD Ultra > AES > DAC, and also try
2. modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen > dX-USB HD Ultra > AES > DAC

In contrast, my trifecta would be cheaper, but would go into the USB input of the DAC:

1. modded switch > modded sMS-200 > tX-USBultra > USB > DAC, or 
2. modded switch > modded sMS-200 > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra > USB > DAC

Choices, choices!

Thanks Rajiv, 

 

Yeah there are certainly a few options but my thinking was to try and raise the quality of the USB signal (Trifecta at first and then add a better clock) in the hope that it betters the SQ despite I2S theoretically being the optimum input for my DAC. 

 

I saw that @Bamber went the road of getting an SU-1 modded for sCLK-ex input and kudos to him on it. But I was kinda aiming more to replace my set up rather than added more components to the chain. Hence my initial attraction to an SMS-200ultra & modded switch with reference clock to follow.

 

Bases on feedback so far it sounds like that's probably too simplistic and I might need more. 

 

Oh well - plenty fun researching and trying to suss out a potential plan. 

 

Thanks again for the feedback. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[BigAlMc]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

Trifecta Medley (just to remind)

• Zyxel switch (sCLK-EX mod) > SOtM dCBL-Cat7 > SOtM sMS-200 (sCLK-EX mod) > USPCB > ISO-Regen > USPCB > SOtM tX-USBultra > Lush USB cable
• Reference Clock: Cybershaft Premium OCXO OP-14 10MHz clock driving the tX-USBultra

Hi Rajiv, 

Apologies if this has been covered and I missed it (which given the detailed articulate posts you contribute I'm sure it has) but why is the Cybershaft only driving the tx-USBultra? 

 

Perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick but I thought the sCLK-ex model involved the ability to add an external clock to the drive the sCLK-ex, which in turn drives the items its connected to (such as SMS-200ultra, modded switch & tx-USBultra in your case). 

 

Did I misunderstand this as I thought synchronisation of several components to a great clock was the essence of the secret sauce in the spaghetti setup? 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

PS great work comparing the DCS to the Trifecta! 

[BigAlMc]

10 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

The Cybershaft has one output. It drives the reference clock input of the sCLK-EX board. In my setup, that lives in the tX-USBultra.

 

The 4 clock outputs of the sCLK-EX board inherit the ultra low phase-noise of the reference clock, so in effect, the reference clock's quality is propagated across the whole chain.

Thanks Rajiv, 

 

Hope it wasn't a dim question. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan