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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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On ‎19‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:14 PM, afrancois said:

I glued the sheets on top of the LPS-1 for example and it perfectly dissipates the heat the LPS-1 generates. I even have cooling fins resting on top of them.

 

Did you check the internal temperature of the LPS-1 before , and after doing this ?

There is no way that the heatsinks will work as effectively when sitting on top of 3M material which is NOT designed for this purpose.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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20 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Any heat generated is so miniscule it won't make a difference. I've been feeling the devices after being in for a long time and there's no difference. Of course if you want to know for sure take the tamp. 

 

I just bought 2 more sheets and have been covering the insides of more equipment. It continues to help. 

 

The idea of the 3M material is to reduce/eliminate radiation from the I.C.s etc. that they are installed on, into other sensitive areas.  It should not be needed  to cover the insides of equipment using a metal case.

Where there are toroidal transformers etc. you can also use a piece of copper clad PCB that is connected to the chassis, between the transformer and sensitive devices such as Input PCBs of DACs etc.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

Based on what I've read that isn't accurate. The  3M sheets absorb EMI and RF. A metal case won't shield everything from the outside and it won't shield EMI or RF bouncing around the inside. 

 

A metal case will prevent the ingress of most of the RF/EMI , and is all that is normally needed.

Neither will you find too many manufacturers, even with expensive gear, doing what you are doing .

Unless you are living near high powered FM ,TV or high powered Radar transmitters, you will only get minor gains at best from doing this.

It's best to shield the individual devices such as I.C.s directly with the 3M product to prevent RF /EMI bouncing around inside, and more effective as it is directly on the I.C. itself . It will also be far less expensive.

 

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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27 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Were you referring to integrated circuits and not interconnects?

 

 I was talking about Integrated circuits, where you can cut a small piece of the 3M material and place it over the I.C. itself.

Just first make sure that the I.C. isn't quite warm when in use before doing this. Some "Jumbo" type I.C.s as used in Set Top Boxes etc. already have aluminium heatsinks attached to them which are quite thick, and will also help to reduce radiated RF/EMI.

27 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

....Thus for high-frequency interference signals, lightweight, easily worked high conductivity materials such as copper or aluminum can provide adequate shielding.....

  That is also why I recommended using a piece of copper clad PCB, and many cases are made from aluminium which is light weight.

You will find that internally generated RF/EMI from I.C.s is of a very high frequency due to very fast switching pulses in the I.C. itself,  and it's nearby copper traces such as the power supply connections. Proper design will have bypass capacitors at the appropriate locations to prevent most of the radiation from these traces.

With cases that use anodised aluminium, or even cases with painted steel, you need to make sure that there is a good electrical contact between top , bottom and the sides of the cases.

 You may need to scrape away any anodising/paint etc. around the screw holes to ensure a good contact between sections.

You can use a DMM  to verify that there is a good electrical contact between sections. 

Yes, I am well aware of the suggestions made in the "another paper". 

BTW, much of the material you quoted applies mainly to equipment OTHER than normal consumer grade equipment as used for Audio and Video.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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22 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Are you suggesting a Faraday shield? 

 

 No. It simply isn't necessary for Consumer grade gear.

Even replacing diodes in the PSU area , voltage ratings permitting, with Schottky diodes can help reduce RF/EMI as Greg has posted in another area of the forum. His suggestion applies mainly to external +5V non SMPS supplies, but also applies to internal PSUs .

There is also a lot of very good information posted by E.E. John Swenson in this and other Uptone threads, as well as elsewhere, about Earthing of SMPS powered devices etc. These are areas where you can make the biggest improvements at a negligible cost.

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?page=9

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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1 minute ago, afrancois said:

The difference is that the sMS-200 Ultra doesn't fully initiate the audio stream from memory like a PC can. 

 

 System Memory in  a PC  appears to be highly transparent, and can often reveal quite audible differences between different types of Storage media, including USB, internal SSD and HDD using the same saved music files when you use a software player that plays from System Memory.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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Just now, afrancois said:

Noted, but who says that the sMS-200 Ultra doesn't play from memory?

 

 My reply was a GENERAL observation only.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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14 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

  I think we can conclude from the renderer discoveries that the smaller low power server is the superior bit perfect playback choice.  

 

 Not necessarily.

A larger PC often has a larger and higher quality ATX PSU, and has the ability to use additional low noise USB cards with special low noise power. It may also use a high quality soundcard with Coax SPDIF output to a good DAC, getting around the numerous problems, and expense  associated with getting the highest quality audio from USB.

 There is also the possibility of fitting additional small PSUs internally to supply improved AND isolated power to the various components such as SSDs .

Also, the RF/EMI from a much faster processor is pushed much higher in the spectrum where it is likely to cause fewer problems.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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39 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

A high power ATX PSU is going to put out more noise than one of these, especially if it has a fan.

 

There are ATX PSUs available these days that have very low SMPS ripple. Many also have speed controlled fans  .

Well implemented Coax SPDIF from a decent soundcard into a DAC with a well implemented SPDIF input (e.g. Input transformer for isolation)  has the potential to crap all over typical USB Audio, where you often need to spend more on other ancillaries to get the best from it, than the computer itself cost !

Coax SPDIF is capable of far wider bandwidth than currently used, as is Glass Optical Fibre.

 In my case, I also use the attached DIY very low noise PCB for vastly improved power derived from the internal +12V SMPS, which is regulated down to 2 separate isolated +5V supplies for my internal SSDs .The electrical noise output from each half is around 4uV. Click on the image for a larger image.

59fa6e5444943_Dual5VPSUfor2SSDs.thumb.jpg.198a4a556455af54096f20d372923512.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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Johnseye

I have been using  a Paul Hynes 3.3V regulator in my DIY DAC for some years now, so you don't need to remind me of the quality of Paul's designs.

I have another advantage with my approach, in that ALL Earth/0 volts in the PC from the Motherboard and ancillary devices, as well as the additional JLH PSU PCBs for the SSDs,   go back to the main  0 Volts Bus in the SMPS PSU itself. This is the Earth Reference for the whole PC. I also have a +12V and +5V JLH PSU Add-on powering my internal LG GGW H20L BR writer.

This assists with the quality of both ripping from CD, and burning discs, as well as which, this particular PCB, being directly in parallel with it's incoming +12V and +5V supply leads, (no series Voltage Regulators)  also helps to further reduce any ripple coming from the SMPS PSU.

 

Alex

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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Johnseye

There are items such as Fan filters.Neither do the fans need to be powered by motherboard PWM pulses that cause RF/EMI

There are also fans that come with a thermistor as well as a rheostat for manual control.  Using cheap shielded SATA leads that are as short as possible will also greatly reduce RF/EMI pickup

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

This is what Xtreme spaghetti looks like! 6 - count 'em - 6 LPS-1s alone. I love meets!

 

Alex C loves you too ! 9_9

BTW, a couple of Aussie friends also have LPS-1s too.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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With the original Sata Filter at least,the  necessary use of physically small electrolytic capacitors is likely to result in a small amount of HF detail increase which some may like.

I found this some time back with a DIY Sata Filter.Fitting much larger value electrolytic capacitors at it's output side gave the best of both worlds with a low end improvement as well.  

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

Tonight I compared the X25 E drive with and without the SOtM SATA II filter. First I listened to a handful of songs, then listened intently to two in particular for sounds to key in on. I pulled the filter out and repeated. 

 

The difference is very noticeable. It is the same as I previously experienced when comparing it to the M.2 drive. By recollection alone, I don't think there was much of a difference between the X25 and M.2.  What this filter does is eliminates the noise coming from the drive which contributes to a harsher digital edge sound. By eliminating this noise the sound becomes much more organic, natural and analog like. The soundstage expansion of width, height and depth or dimensionality remained without the SATA filter. I believe that is from the tX-USBexp and tX-USBultra.  The SATA filter tames the digital beast. It's the best $65 you can spend.

 

I have to say what you all probably have guessed. Roy was right. That guy is not only sharp as a tack but he has a great ear. His recommendations were spot on. That doesn't mean I would blindly follow, but I've tried many of his suggestions and haven't been misled. Right now my digital system is sounding incredible.  My recommendation is to try the SATA II filter for yourself. I don't think you need the X25 drive. Other SATA II drives will work. It's the filter that makes the difference. 

 

 

 

It could be interesting to compare the 40uV ebay voltage regulator powered from 12V and set to +5V Out, against the Filter.

 I would expect that an even better +5V regulator would outperform the Filter.

It would depend on how much room you have inside though.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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electronics-salon no longer appears to have this item available. They were purchased by several C.A. members. http://www.audiowind.com/pdf/A-270V2.pdf
 The key advantage of most of this vendor's PSU modules is the larger than usual heat sinks that they use.

This vendor has a large number of general purpose PSU modules currently available.

 

Finally found it !

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultra-low-Noise-40-V-Adjustable-Voltage-Regulator-Module-1-25-20V-1-5-Amp-/161492352376?hash=item2599b1bd78

 

Incidentally, some members have found that filtering the SATA Data lines is not always a good idea.

 

http://stores.ebay.com.au/Electronics-Salon/Power-Supply-Regulator-/_i.html?_fsub=969807219&_sid=804830199&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

JyFvvX.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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4 minutes ago, lmitche said:

My hypothesis is that most of the gain is from power treatments surrounding the clock, and not the quality increase of the new clock itself vs. the old clock it replaced.

 

  I think that you may very well be correct Larry, just as the LiPo battery reportedly did originally for the USB Regen.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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2 hours ago, Forehaven said:

Guys, I have a couple LT3045s with the output being right on the underside + and - soldered pins, but testing on the screws of the terminal plug gives me readings all over the place.  Did I use too much solder or flux that affected something under the terminals?

 

Thanks for the help

Chris

 

A couple of good resolution photos may help us to assist you. If you are measuring voltage output, try measuring resistance between those points instead, when not powered. i.e between the solder pad under the PCB and the screw of the terminal plug for both + and -.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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Hi Forehaven

 You will find that the vast majority of C.A. members are always happy to help.

Kind Regards

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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  • 3 weeks later...
9 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Now I wonder if there were anyone who actually modified the system clocks inside SATA BD drives and SLC SSDs by any chance?

 

 This sounds like overkill to me.

 You can markedly improve the performance of an internal BR drives by ensuring that the PSU area supplying it is highly stable under the varying load conditions on it's +12V and +5 V supply rails. This will also help to ensure the writing of high quality discs.

The same applies to the +5V supply rails for SSDs . The stability of their internal Xtal oscillators can only be as good as the power supply for them.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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33 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I expect to explore this further soon. But it does underscore the fact that there is much more research and analysis needed to explain why we are hearing these SQ improvements.

 

 +1

However, no matter how many members confirm these reports, they will always be regarded as purely ANECDOTAL by a few members, several of whom are in a position to further investigate them, but never will, because they believe that most of them are "wishful thinking" on the part of the people reporting them.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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3 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

OK so do some quick and dirty blind listening tests.

 

As Art Dudley of Stereophile Magazine wrote:

Audio enthusiasts are given to reporting any number of things.

 

In the past, the hobby was about real supportable improvements, not just wasting time and money.

 Utter crap !

 Do Photography enthusiasts need to provide absolute proof of everything they suggest, or high performance car enthusiasts like yourself , with a stable of high performance cars, need to provide irrefutable proof of every tuning tweak they claim helped to improve performance, or perhaps increased reliability  ? 

Many will even swear that XYZ Brand Motor Oil will yield higher performance or increased Miles per gallon.

This also applies to the Oil Manufacturers advertisements too, with often unsupported claims.

 

N.B.

 I am NOT talking about Official Organisations , just hobby type forums where members exchange information.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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52 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

yes they do

 

many Photography enthusiasts pay a lot of attention to sensor & lens testing

 

for cars, we have engine dynos & racetracks

 

I was  talking about hobby type forums where members exchange information.

 Again, it's PURELY ANECDOTAL. It is NOT incontestable proof .

Opinions in this area , just as with Audio, are almost as common as assholes !

Engine Dynos and racetracks are normally for Professionals, not for your general motoring enthusiast.

and very few would pay extra to have new software installed for their engine management , although a few may choose to do so, and have a Dyno test performed after it's installation, against a reference from published specifications from the manufacturer.  

I also doubt that there is a clear winner in all cases of software engine management packages for non racing type vehicles.

 

I was talking about enthusiast forums , such as the Mitsubishi Forum, or Ford or Holden Forum etc.

There are Members of the Trade among the members, who may offer advice ( not always unbiased)  but normally not from the Motor Vehicle company itself !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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