A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[dctom]

Considering building a new machine based on a supermicro X10SBA-L  running linux, using an external PS. Does anyone know if the built in cpu would have enough power to run HQplayer or jriver?

[dctom]

Thanks for the feedback, glad to know it will run both players.

I do some upsampling at the moment, appreciate that it won't cope with very high upsampling - maybe 2x dsd? Happy to trade off the low power spec of the  with  low or no upsampling.

 

[dctom]

On 12/5/2018 at 4:44 AM, austinpop said:

My NUC Impressions - Part 2

 

Shortly after I posted my initial NUC impressions yesterday, FedEx and DHL dropped off the last of the parts for my own NUC. Let me back up. The day after I received Roy's loaner NUC, which happened to be Cyber Monday, and having heard it in my system, I decided to go ahead and order my own. Since the NUC7CJYH was sold out everywhere, and since Roy (and then Larry) has mentioned how they found the NUC7i7DNBE to sound even better, I went ahead and ordered the NUC7i7DNBE with the classy looking Akasa Plato X7D case. I'm glad I did, as it seems to be backordered now.

 

First - I must tell you the Plato X7D case is stunning in its look and feel. I have to admit I had some trepidation about how the build would go. I'm not a system builder, and although I was comfortable about the general process, having seen the video @Middy posted a few days ago on this thread, I was paranoid I'd get the thermal paste application wrong. Larry and Roy were helpful in their advice, and in the end, the build was fairly easy, even for a first timer. Even after a whole day of running AL Extreme, CPU temp is stable around 40ºC, so I guess the paste went on properly! Plus, I think this case is outstanding for heat dissipation. I suppose it helps that I have absolutely no additional devices other than what's on the original mobo. I tuned the BIOS as described in the tuning thread.

 

So how does it sound? Wow, this i7 NUC is quite a nice step up in SQ! Roy and Larry were spot on, as usual. Even cold - I'm sure even NUCs need some breaking in - it sounds stunning.

 

Holding everything else constant, and powering both NUCs (CJYH and i7DNBE) with a 12V SR7 DR rail, I was not expecting as big a difference as I heard. These are just initial impressions, but here's what I'm hearing on the i7 compared to the Celeron:

• A hint more dynamic, but dynamics are not the biggest difference
• Richer, creamier sound
• More coherent, better texture and timbre
• fuller and denser
• a bit more authority on the low end
• double bass lines better articulated
• a larger image.

In short, even more of the good stuff. I am so pleased with this purchase! My Zenith SE is on its way to its proud new owner, and now this handsome Plato X7D-encased NUC is a worthy replacement and improvement, at a fraction of the cost.

 

At this point, I just can't stop listening to the music, and so will take a break from all the tweaking and tuning. Eventually, I will dabble with a different/better server than my generic Dell desktop, and of course, I look forward to the "clash of the switches!" 

 

But until then, this truly is approaching endgame for the digital transport chain. And I don't say that lightly.

 

Thank you for all the excellent info you have posted on the NUCs.

have you tried any other voltages besides 12v to power your NUC7i7DNBE, or is 12v the sweet spot?

 

[dctom]

On 3/17/2019 at 2:13 PM, austinpop said:

 

For now, I am using 12V, because I don’t yet have a suitable PSU to go higher.  According to @romaz, 19V - assuming the same PSU - sounds best to him so I would suggest giving that a try.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 3:37 PM, Johnseye said:

 

 

I have recently changed from 12v to 19v using the same PSU.  So far 19v is slightly better, but other changes were made at the same time so I can't be 100% certain it's all because of the increased power.

Thanks for the feedback.

I have ordered a NUC7i7DNBE and Sean Jacobs 19v power supply.

[dctom]

5 hours ago, soares said:

Would you please share the model you ordered?

Tks,

Jorge

Hi Jorge

After exchanging emails with Sean, to explore best alternatives, ordered the Dc3 with current boost and Mundorf caps. Four month waiting list!

[dctom]

6 minutes ago, soares said:

Tks. But I was not aware that Sean was also selling NUC's.

Would you mind sending me the link and if possible the NUC's price?

Tks,

 

Jorge

Sorry for any misunderstanding - I did not buy the NUC from Sean.

purchased from https://simplynuc.co.uk/  seemed to be the only uk supplier with the i7DNBE in stock

 

dave

[dctom]

Hi seatrope I have an unmodified Nuc i7 it occasionally starts to play  a file with a strange tinny ringing distortion

it happens Two or three times a listening session- one track finishes no problem next one has the distortion stopping and starting track clears distortion - thinking it might be the upsampling. sound quality otherwise is excellent

using jriver pcm upsampling playing from an itx i3 server bridged direct to the Nuc, still experimenting with configuration. Currently using Ubuntu on both machines.

how do you get on with the Pacific (seem to remember you had volume level issues with GG)

listened to one a couple of times

I use a lampi GG btw

[dctom]

On 5/14/2019 at 4:08 AM, seatrope said:

Hi @dctom

Loving the Pacific for the last few months now. The tube selection dial on the Pacific completely alleviates all my prior issues with output volume on the GG2. 

 

Found out finally that my problems were all due to a flaky USB cable! replaced that one and all the intermittent noise issues went away.

Glad you managed to sort out the problem.

[dctom]

I have been following the thread for a while and  took the plunge a couple of months ago.

To start with, my original diy fanless Asus mini-ITX was  utilised as a server feeding a 7i7dnbe in Asaka plato case. Both machines running on Ubuntu, the ITX directly linked to the NUC.

 

This immediately produced an uplift in SQ. Replacing the USB  HDD externally connected to the Asus with a Synology NAS was another improvement. Next came the HDPLEX 200w. The Plex currently powers the NUC at 19v, the NAS 12v, DP link switch 9v, and ITX ssd 5v with CANARE 4S6s  dc cables. This has seen another increase in SQ.

 

As the psu  has proved so beneficial I have ordered a Sean Jacobs 5amp DC3  and Hynes SR 4 to, hopefully raise the bar further.

 

It has been something of a journey trying to improve on the linux ITX. I borrowed an Aurilac G1 and although it seemed slightly more transparent, initially  with my external USB HDD connected. However it stopped recognising the HDD and would only work with my ITX acting as a server connecting to the G1 via ethernet. In this mode it sounded worse than the just the ITX  + exHD connected to my DAC.

 

The current set up has left the G1 in the dust suffice to say.

 

With the power supply seemingly ever more critical, I have replaced the RCBOs in the dedicated consumer unit, which supplies the HiFi system, with better quality ones. This has brought a subtle but noticeable improvement in the already excellent clarity, weight and bass.  Obviously  all the components in the system have benefited not just the server set up.

 

[dctom]

1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

 

 

What will you be powering with both the SJ DC3 & PH SR4 ?

 

 

The intention is to use one for the ITX and the other for the NUC. Then use the four HDplex  outputs for the; ITX ssd, switch, NAS, and possibly router.

[dctom]

It took a while for me to convert from CD player to streaming. I had various, reasonably, hi end players the last being a Playback designs MPS 5, which was the first digital I could listen to as a real alternative to vinyl. Used to stream from a mac book through the MPS 5's Dac -  playing discs always sounded better. 

 

I then built my first dedicated music pc, this produced much better results using Jriver and then HQplayer - SQ very similar to disc player. Hi rez and upsampling improved the SQ again.

 

Then had the opportunity to borrow a lampizator GG DAC to compare to the MPS 5 side by side. Streaming to the GG from pc trounced the  MPS 5 playing CD and SACD. Have moved on considerably now with pc + NUC set up. CDs that were flat and thin sounding (after ripping) are now filled out with better harmonics, richness and sense of scale.

[dctom]

My intention last year was to get an off the shelf music server.

To this end I borrowed an Aurilac Aries G1 for a few weeks and was initially impressed by it’s SQ when playing music from my usb ext hdd into my Lampizator DAC. In this configuration it sounded more transparent, also, the treble response was more extended compared to my fanless mini-ITX build. Some of my friends did think it sounded more digital than the itx but I liked the extra detail.

 

Unfortunately the G1 was very temperamental, it kept losing the connection to the library files  and eventually refused to recognise the USB drive altogether. After some dealer input it transpired it would work better when networked via ethernet using my itx as a server sending files to the G1. The downside to this arrangement being a  reduction in sound quality in comparison to the USB hard drive. Although initially promising I decided not keep to the G1 and thought I would try out an Innuos Zenith mk111 as an alternative. Whilst trying to get hold of one (they do not seem that easy to come by) I discovered “A novel way ” which appealed to my DIY tendencies! 

 

I have since been following this  thread and a couple of other relevant ones on AS. Through the wealth of information and some interaction with helpful members I have managed to improve my original fanless Asus ITX server, and my computer audio knowledge considerably. As was described early on in the “novel” thread, getting a NUC then directly connecting it to the server has been a game changer. Echoing Anotherspin’s post thank you AS for making this possible.

 

I started off using Jriver MC on both machines with my  USB HD connected to the mini-itx server sending the files via Jriver directly to the NUC endpoint. As mentioned above this configuration produced excellent results, replacing the USB HDD with a NAS was another gain.

 

I have now added a HDplex 200w supplying the ITX + ssd, switch and NAS plus a  Sean Jacobs PS to the NUC. Today I have finally been able to compare a switch mode power  supply to the SJ DC3 - needless to say (or I should say thankfully at £900!) a considerable, massive even  😀, improvement in; transparency, dynamics, scale, instrument placement etc etc. I have posted my equipment/network diagram  below.

 

The latest addition is an installation of an audiolinux licence to see what it would add to the mix. Unfortunately I am not having a great deal of success here - I have got AL up and running ok but for some reason my direct connection won’t pick up NAA on the NUC, HQp on the server will not show my DAC in the settings under NAA.

 

However if I connect the NUC via the ethernet switch, instead of directly, I get my DAC to show up in the NAA settings window. Hence am able to play HQp via AL and Miska’s stand alone NAA (thanks @anotherspin). I have posted this alternative connection below as well.

 

Comparing Jriver direct connection with HPq through the switch  - Jriver direct sounds better! Further evidence of the importance of direct connection I guess.

 

 Does anyone have any ideas why the switch configuration works and the direct not? The ITX is bridged and the NUC happily shares the internet connection and files in either configuration.

 

 

[dctom]

On 7/25/2019 at 4:46 PM, austinpop said:

If the bridge is working fine, the NUC can "see" the network just fine, but it's only HQP/NAA that isn't working, then it's not an OS (AL) issue - that points more to a HQP issue. This should be raised in the HQPlayer thread.

 

Thanks, I will enquire at the HPQ NAA thread,

[dctom]

On 7/25/2019 at 1:50 PM, bit01 said:

I have not played with HQp but I have tried two bridged NUCs  with AL LXQt 3x +JRMC 25 running on both.  The AL installation on the 2nd NUC was from a cloned ÙSB drive of the 1st one. I had trouble with the bridge.

1. I had to change the computer name on the second NUC (in the text file /etc/hostname)

2. I originally cloned  it with J River - the license needed to be re-installed on 2nd NUC : deleted /home/audiolinux/.jriver, start JRMC)

3. Even though the NUCs were an i7 & a Pentium they showed the same MAC address. I had to change one of them manually (used - ip link)

I had excellent sound from this JRMC/LXQt3x setup (AL Menu ver. at 123):

NUC1(load NUC2 library)==bridge==NUC2 (i7,ramroot,USB music hdd, =JRMC server)--switch--LAN

                                                                                                   l

                                                                                               DAC

 

I would contact Piero with your detailed installation. He should be able to sort it out quickly.

ATB.

 

 

Thanks, yes I will contact Piero - I want to find out how to put my MC24 onto audiolinux

[dctom]

I recently obtained a Sean Jacobs DC3 ps. It is rated at 5amp, 19v With Mundorf caps and powers my i7 NUC. I have only compared it to a 19v switch supply and as expected is a great improvement. I believe it is similar to one rail of an Innuos statement’s ps.

It runs totally cool and is completely silent.

[dctom]

I have Audiolinux OS on my NUC endpoint and Linux Ubuntu on the server, is it a good idea to have Audiolinux on both. If so do I need to purchase another copy?

[dctom]

16 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

 

Can you describe how it is better? What did it replace - SMPS? How much of an improvement? How is your server connected to your streamer? Ethernet or USB?

 

 

It is difficult to isolate one component's contribution when it is part of an overall drive for improvement when the whole system's  sound has improved. However out of curiosity I put a switch mode  ps in instead of the SJ DC3. The music collapsed some what, scale, depth, a bit less dynamic. There was a definite improvement in the overall SQ, so as far as I am concerned a worthwhile upgrade.

[dctom]

20 hours ago, Tommd64 said:

Compared the prices and see whats going on. I ll say without hearing please buy a Farad3, it's also possible to order it with highgrade componends..or better dc cable. Coz he 700p for a Sean Jacobs is a lot of money for a realitively simple PS. Compared to a Farad or SotM.

 

The SJ DC3 does produce 5 amp output, so is more versatile if I change hardware.

[dctom]

On 8/1/2019 at 9:38 PM, vassils said:

 

I use WBT silver solder for all my projects

 

 

+1

[dctom]

On 8/1/2019 at 9:48 PM, austinpop said:

 

Sorry if I caused any confusion. Here are the HW specs of the custom server:

• ASRock H370M-ITX/ac motherboard
• Intel Core i7-8700T CPU
• Kingston HyperX Fury DDR4/2400 2x4GB RAM
• HDPlex H3 case
• Intel M10 Optane 32GB SSD
• JCAT Net Card Femto

On the software side, I am booting Euphony OS from the Optane SSD. For music serving, I am using Roon+StylusEP, which means Roon Core for the server, and StylusEP as the player. StylusEP presents itself to Roon as a Squeezebox device.

 

Are there any particular specs of the ASrock  Mobo that made you choose it?

[dctom]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Not really. I don't consider my build to be the "optimal." It was actually built by @romaz before he refined his choices for his next build, for which he picked a gaming Z390 board.

 

Does the H370M sound worse than the Z390? Hard to say.

 

Thanks for the info.

[dctom]

11 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I don't have an infinite budget. Even if I could afford to spend the $20-30k+ for the top solutions from PF, SGM, Aurender, and Innuos, I'm scared that they may be obsolete in a year or two.

 

I agree and have been reluctant to lay out a large sum for something that could be superseded very rapidly.

 

On the tweaking front does the sNH-10G have as much effect on SQ when playing music files from a NAS, as when streaming from Tidal for instance ( I don't use streaming services). Also does the basic one sound very different to the one with the sCLK-EX built in? 

 

 

[dctom]

22 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

For my system, yes.

 

Not sure. I’ve not tried the basic one.

22 hours ago, Tommd64 said:

Did you know that the BASIC sNH-10g also works on 9-12volts..Wachout only the basic version; the other ones needs an adjustement..

 

Thanks for the warning and feedback.

[dctom]

I have an i7 NUC end point and i3 itx server - does anyone know of a source of apacer or similar ram in the UK?

[dctom]

That’s great, thank you