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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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6 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Over on @Cornan's Experimental Tweaks thread, we've discussed this in the context of a simple goal:

  • Make Tidal Great Again! Just kidding. Make the same track played back through Tidal sound as good as the same track played back locally.

I can tell you that as of now this is not true for me at all. Local files sound significantly better than streamed from Tidal. It also is where I plan to focus my experimental energy next. :D

 

*LOL* Funny, but I want to make things perfectly clear. Since roughly a year ago I have completely stopped comparing local files with Tidal. Why? I couldn't see the point anymore. Playing local files vs Tidal means different approaches. Different things matters for the final result. I honestly think they cannot be compared apples to apples since things you improve for cloud content might be useless or even bad for local content and vise versa. Surely you can at some point end up with a system which is impossible to tell them apart, but I expect that one of the next tweaks could possibly shift the balance one way or the other. Perfect balance depends on luck. Just think about it for a moment. Think about the music bits. Think of their origin. Think of their paths. Think of the power consumption. Think of the noise. Now try to improve one without effecting the other. Mission impossible if you want it to be equal. 

However, if you plan your system for one or the other you just might get there! ?

 

Remember, improving local files is easier than improving Tidal.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, magnuska said:

 

Sorry about that!:$ Twas my 1 year old daugther trying to say. Dad I don`t like you sitting so much at the computer. Its my turn now...:D

 

No worries, I understood it was an accident of some kind. Just could´nt resist to reply! ;) 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, ducatirider said:

I also noticed that Aqvox sells RJ45 grounding plugs with crystals on them.  Is there any empirical data suggesting that crystals absorb RFI or anything like that?  My Switch 8 came with 2 of these.

79_0.jpg

 

Rhinestones used in Aqvox caps are the same thing as clear quartz which have very interesting electrical properties. Except turning micro vibrations into heat, piezo- and pyroelectrical properties plus ionic nature they are also known to absorb RFI/EMI in a wide frequency range.

 

BTW. My Aqvox switch is grounded to a Entreq Minimus grounding box with great results.

 

If you want to ground the SMS-200 I suggest you connect it via one of the USB sockets (signal ground). Buy a screw terminal USB A plug and connect both GND+shield screw.

 

 

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1 hour ago, greenleo said:

Can anybody provide the theory of the ground box for me?  A link will do as well.  I've been into this recently but cannot figure it out.  Basically, my problem is with the ground box connection, it is an open circuit.  How can the noises be drained away?

 

Don't get me wrong.  I trust this works and would like to understand the mechanism.

 

 

 

Here is a start, http://www.entreqasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Entreq-History.pdf

, but is just theories I am afraid.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Thanks, Micael! Yes, this glitch was definitely holding back my enjoyment. Since last night, I'm finding myself immersing even more into the music as never before. I guess knowing a pause was coming sooner or later tends to put you on edge!

 

I did'nt tell you, but I had very similar issues several years ago with JplayStreamer, Fidelizer Pro & BubbleDS Next. My play-stop issue turned up after installing Bitsum Process Lasso Pro. It was resolved later on but I couldn't even remember why it suddenly vanished. Very annoying issue which I was able to resolve by constant setting changes, resets, hardware replaces etc. It was one of several other things that made me walk away from pc and choose the Aries Mini streamer path. I was fed up having too many plausible variables that could cause playback issues. Another thing was that I could never reach the perfect SQ without playback issues. When it sounded glorious it was always playback issues as well with pc.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, mozes said:

I switched off the galvanic isolation and a tiny bit of the magic is gone. Less sparkly and shorter decays of notes are things I noticed.

 

Very interesting findings Moussa! Congrats! ?

 

 

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8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Well, after 2 nights of listening, I must say it is quite close. 

 

Having an LPS-1 dedicated to each of the switch, sMS, and tX does add a touch more authority and ease to the music, but you have to really listen hard to distinguish. Without that point of reference, my shared LPS-1 between the switch and the sMS sounds wonderful.

 

Obviously, with no budgetary restrictions, a separate LPS-1 is ideal, but I know now that my config is really close to that ideal.

 

Like an ultra cap bank, I will let my coffers recharge for now. Eventually, when @limniscate receives his Hynes SR7 far, far in the future, I want to see how that improves things over the LPS-1s.

 

And the dance continues...

 

It would be very interesting to see what happens if you plug in both of your two feeder supplies into a safety isolation transformer (IT with floating secondary). Did you order one yet?

 

 

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5 hours ago, limniscate said:

So from @austinpop and I's testing of his stack (LPS-1 powering everything), I reported that the switch adds a naturalness to the sound; while he reported that the image size was increased.

 

On my switch with the HD-Plex (12V) on the sMS-200 Ultra and a LPS-1 on the switch, the image size seemed bigger, but there was no added naturalness.  Yesterday, we had the switch on a LPS-1 and used two LPS-1 in series on the sMS-200 Ultra, and the naturalness was back, but I didn't notice the image being bigger.  We will try to test this out some more, but I thought the forum may find this interesting.

 

May I suggest that you try powering the switch with battery and the charger disconnected from AC mains. IME especially network switches sounds best with battery power. I strongly believe switches kick a lot of noises back into the AC mains. 

 

 

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I cannot shake off the feeling that the first clock is most important one. This means for cloud content like Tidal the router should be the main target and for NAS content the clock closest to the NAS is where the main efforts should be made. I cannot imagine several clocks would make a difference for the better. One clock rules them all.

In my setup with Tidal as the only source the Aqvox switch-8 have the best clock and it made a truly great improvement. When @mozes used the same switch it did'nt improve much for his NAS content. Make sence to me to improve the first clock and just make sure that the remaining clocks is'nt too bad so it will fuck up the chain.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, yellowblue said:

I am not so sure about that. I also own the Aqvox switch and like it quite much. But the Iso Regen gave a massive improvement in my chain despite that (more so than the Aqvox switch). Ordered a tX-USBUltra and one more LPS-1 today. And will get the V1.4 update for my MicroRendu (probably in august). Will see if many good clocks will make a difference.

 

My chain with bridged connection will be > Aqvox switch > MicroRendu V1.4 > USPCB > Iso Regen > USPCB > tX-USBUltra > JCAT USB cable > Chord Dave

I was first thinking about selling my MicroRendu and getting the SMS-200 Ultra instead of the tx-USBUltra but I haven´t done that for some reasons:

- it will be hard to sell the MicroRendu at a good price at the moment

- the tx-USBUltra is more flexible than the SMS-200 Ultra if I in the future should decide to go the USB-path

- I suppose the MicroRendu will give me a more meaty sound and it will be a good balance in the chain with the IR and the tx-USBUltra

 

At the same time I think it was a bit crazy to order the tx-USB Ultra with the LPS-1. After changing the sound filters in Audiophile optimizer to 1C to get more details, my chain with the Iso Regen already sounds fantastic. But you will get a bit crazy after reading the whole thread.

So, are you saying that you are playing only cloud content?

I am sure ISO Regen makes a great improvement, but are you sure it is due to the clock and not due to the GI or the USPCB?

 

 

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Quote

 

I get some content via the SDcard of my "silent PC" and some via Tidal. One never know why the Iso Regen sounds so good. Because of the massive improvement I suppose it even has to do with its clock. I hope I will know more when I get the tx USBultra.

 

IME you'll need a different approach to cloud content compared to local content. You just need to think about the origin of the music bits to realize that they'll need to be dealt with somewhat differently. I have been concentrating all my effort to maximize Tidal/Wimp content the last two years and two of the two best improvements came from powering the router with a floating LPS and powering the AQVOX switch with battery power. This is not what you would expect to happen with SDcard or NAS content.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Forget internet streaming.  You can't control the first or last mile.  Once in your home, yeah, too late.  Obviously do the best possible.  That means trying to correct the damage.  Guess not much different than working with the current mobos, soon someday hopefully we get an audiophile mobo that will  make all these reclocking devices mute. 

 

How could I just forget about it? I've got the most amazing music collection at the top of my fingers and it still sounds amazing! ?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi Cornan, what clock does their switch use? I've sent a few emails but no response.

 

Have you (or anyone here) ever taken a photo of the inside?

 

Does it use only ultra low noise linear regulators ?

 

Cheers

 

Sorry, no idea which clock they use. I have never opened it up to take a photo either.

Here is what Aqvox says about it:

 

Quote

AQVOX Modification:
"State of the Art" Signal Optimization 

 

- Internal Ultra-Low-Noise voltage regulation
- Jitter Reduction
- ReClocker
- Signal Shaper
- EMI Eleminator
- De-Noiser
- Modified/optimized external power supply**

 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

ISO-Regen meets Ultra Trifecta - First Impressions

 
With about 70 hours under the ISO-Regen's belt, I decided it was safe to try a first listen. This time, Eric and I met at my place using my headphone setup (see sig) as the reference.
 
We will do another round in a couple weeks when the ISO-Regen should have at least 200 hours of burn-in.
 
Note: 
  • All components were powered by LPS-1 PSUs.
  • The sCLK-EX modded Zyxel switch (aka Z-switch) and modded sMS-200 were powered by a single LPS-1 using a Ghent Y-cable.
  • Galvanic isolation was ON (switch set to position I) on the ISO-Regen in all cases except experiment 5 below.
Key Questions and Associated Experiments
  1. Compare mR+ISO-Regen vs Ultra Trifecta - Does adding the ISO-Regen to the mR close the gap relative the SOtM Ultra trifecta?
    • Baseline:          Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > tX-USBultra (Ultra Trifecta)
    • Comparison:     mR > ISO-Regen
    • Result: 
      • Sorry folks, this is still no contest. The Ultra trifecta has significantly better SQ. It will be interesting to see how much further the Ultrarendu closes the gap. As I have maintained, the secret sauce in the trifecta has to be the modded switch. Once more such reclocking switches come along, there should be many more viable alternatives. But for now, the Trifecta rules.
         
  2. Replace tX-USBultra with ISO-Regen
    • Baseline:          Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > tX-USBultra
    • Comparison:     Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen
    • Result: 
      • Very close. WOW. Very, very close! We are so impressed with the ISO-Regen. 
      • Ultimately, we differed slightly in our overall preference.
        • Eric felt the ISO-Regen sounded better by a hair
        • Rajiv felt the tX was ahead by a nose
      • Minor differences aside, it points to the fact that the ISO-R is an insane value for the money.
         
  3. Add ISO-Regen before tX in the trifecta
    • Baseline:            Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen
    • Comparison:       Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra
    • Result: 
      • The best sounding configuration of the day.
      • Again, we differed slightly in our overall preference.
        • Eric felt he could not hear the incremental improvement the tX added over the baseline
        • Rajiv felt the tX added a noticeable increase in SQ - notably low end heft and a tad more resolution
           
  4. Add ISO-Regen after tX in the trifecta
    • Baseline:           Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra
    • Comparison:      Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > tX-USBultra > ISO-Regen
    • Result: 
      • Not as good as before the tX
      • This sounded flatter, smaller, and a bit lacking in resolution and texture
         
  5. Which sounds better - GI ON or OFF
    • Baseline:           Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen (GI ON) > tX-USBultra
    • Comparison:      Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen (GI OFF) > tX-USBultra
    • Result: 
      • This wasn't as cut and dried as I expected
      • Over several tracks, we concluded the GI setting of ON (default) sounded better, but the difference was small
      • On at least one track (Nightingale by Norah Jones on DSD), we felt the GI OFF sounded a tad more natural
    • Editorial: @Superdad - I already ragged you about the labels for the GI DIP switch in the ISO-R thread. Enough said.
       
  6. Finally, we retried a couple of Ethernet experiments. 
    What is the SQ effect of iSO-Cat 6 Isolator
    • Baseline:           generic 6a > Z-switch > Supra 6a > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra
    • Comparison:      generic 6a > iSO-Cat6 > BJC 6a > Z-switch > Supra 6a > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra
    • Result: 
      • No impact. Nada. Zip. Zero.
      • We continue to hear no effect from these isolators - first on Eric's system, now mine.
      • Others do. Odd.
         
  7. What is the SQ effect of dCBL-Cat7 cable
    • Baseline:           generic 6a > iSO-Cat6 > BJC 6a > Z-switch > Supra 6a > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra
    • Comparison:      generic 6a > iSO-Cat6 > BJC 6a > Z-switch > dCBL-7 > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra
    • Result: 
      • Definite improvement
      • Consistent with SQ improvement we heard on Eric's system
      • But magnitude of SQ improvement is not large enough for me to justify the cost of the cable ($500)
      • Might be worth picking up used.
Overall Musings
  • The ISO-Regen is a gem. Why am I not surprised! My order for one has already been placed.
  • The Trifecta with ISO-Regen (Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra) is true endgame material. At some level I agree with @hols - the ISO-R adds color. But for me, it corrects the slightly thin SOtM house sound with the more mellow and rich Uptone house sound. The end result is magical. But expensive. No doubt. There's no free lunch.
  • In decreasing order of performance, taking price into consideration:
    • $3190:    Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > ISO-Regen > tX-USBultra + 3 x LPS-1s
    • $2540     Z-switch > sMS-200 mod > tX-USBultra + 2 x LPS-1s
    • $2940     Z-switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen + 3 x LPS-1s
      • you can get by sharing an LPS-1 between the Z-switch and the ISO-R, but as has been pointed out, this defeats GI.
  • Bottom line: The Ultra trifecta is still - for me - a  real sweet spot in terms of value for money. If you can swing a bit more, the Trifecta+ISO-Regen is just sublime. After that, you can slice and dice into subsets as your budget requires.

 

Great, detailed & interesting report Rajiv! :)

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Another 50 hours on the ISO-R (up to about 170 hours), and I feel it continues to improve even at this stage of burn-in. I've spent another long session this evening with another album I keep coming back to of late:

 

2270188.jpg

 

I've really run out of superlatives. I find myself sitting down for a few minutes and spending hours!

 

I did want to mention a couple of tweaks that I think have finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound that the ISO-Regen didn't quite mitigate.

  • Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!
    • Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
    • Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII
    • Both of the above contributed to a blacker background, and sounds more relaxed and smooth
  • Swap the balanced interconnects from the DAC to the amp. I've been enjoying the Ayre Signature's for quite a while now, but I happened to pick up a pair of really old (10+ years at least) Cardas Golden Cross cables from a friend.
    • Man, these just vanquished the last trace of thinness!
    • This is an amazing cable, as it should be for something that retailed for more than $1k in the day. 

In the next day or two, we should be doing another listening session at Eric's, so will report on that soon. I suspect many folks will want to know how this combo sounds:

  • modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen > SU-1

More soon.

 

Great to hear Rajiv! You are most certainly worth it. Enjoy the fruits! ?

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Thanks, Michal - that looks very similar to the Amazon one I posted.

 

Yeah, I missed your link. They are identical! ? I'll let you know if I find something else more suitable Rajiv.

 

 

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3 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

I use two of these sourced from eBay, took only 4 days from Hong Kong to NY. That same seller has many other available options.

 

Not the prettiest, but very effective, the LPS-1 is only warm to the touch now powering the combo of a microRendu and bus powered DAC:

 

 

PA290896.jpg

 

Nice one MikeyFresh! I personally think it looks awesome! ?

 

 

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