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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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Where are your FMCs? Mine used to sit between my computer and network player. My equipment, once NICs are bridged that allow for a direct connection between computer and network player, definitely sounds better when I remove the FMCs.

 

Several network players ago (Auralic Aries, Aurender N100H, microRendu) I installed TP Link FMCs and 10 m of fiber between the Apple AirPort Extreme used as a hub between NAS, internet feed from downstairs and Mac Mini, and my network streamer. I thought it was a worthwhile improvement in sound quality. More so when I replaced the FMCs' OEM SMPS wall-warts with Jameco linear regulated power supplies.

 

However, when I bridged the Mini's installed Ethernet port with an Apple Tthunderbolt-to -Ethernet adapter and fed my microRendu directly from the Mac, whether from the installed Ethernet port or the adapter, I was underwhelmed by the change. I thought there was a very small improvement but nothing worth giving up optical isolation for.

 

When I replaced the FMCs and fiber with a straight run of decent but nothing special CAT6 copper Ethernet cable I heard a much larger improvement with the direct Ethernet feed, more along the magnitude of what Romaz and others have reported.

 

To ensure I wasn't hearing an improvement simply from pulling the FMCs' Jameco power supplies I left the power supplies plugged in and energized and only unplugged both ends of the fiber run's jumpers from Mini and microRendu. With or without the Jameco power supplies energized the sound improvement remained the same -- that is, significantly better with the all-copper direct Ethernet feed between Mini and microRendu than with the optically isolated direct feed.

 

I also tried coiling up the fiber and using it in place of the short copper CAT6 jumpers between the Mini and AirPort Extreme and also between NAS and AirPort Extreme. In either location the sound quality dropped with fiber and FMCs installed.

 

Without fiber and FMCs in the network music sounds more vivid and tonally more saturated as well as having more a more vibrant and life-like presentation, particularly noticeable with voices. With fiber anywhere in the audio network music sounds more recessed and grayer, as if a thin veil has been placed between me and the music.

 

Other details of my system not evident from my signature -- the Mini is a late-2012 i7 with 16GB RAM, 480GB SSD running Roon and HQPlayer. I'm still using the stock internal power supply in the Mini and haven't done any specific optimization other than turning off Spotlight and only using the Mini for music. I have all the "computer stuff" (NAS, Mini, AirPort Extreme) on a CyberPower pure sinewave UPS, plugged into a Shunyata PS8 with Venom Defender in an adjoining room on a different electrical circuit from the main stereo system.

 

So go figure -- where I once thought fiber optic isolation was a significant improvement over all-copper Ethernet and that any sort of direct connection -- ethernet or USB -- between a noisy computer and an audio device was less than optimum, I have now come full circle back to an all-copper direct connection between computer and streamer.

 

Steve Z

VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music.

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Was this still bridged? Straight run from where to where? Do you mind elaborating as to the complete set up that you felt provided the best SQ?

 

Yes, still bridged. I removed a 10 meter fiber optic isolated run of ethernet, consisting of:

 

Bridged Mac Mini ethernet port > copper jumper > FMC > fiber optic > FMC > copper jumper > microRendu

 

and replaced it with:

 

Bridged Mac Mini ethernet port > copper ethernet cable > microRendu

 

The latter configuration sounded much better.

 

The entire "audio network" configuration is:

 

NAS and a copper ethernet cable from downstairs carrying internet > copper jumpers > Apple AirPort Extreme > copper jumper > Mac Mini bridged Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter, Mac Mini onboard bridged ethernet port > copper ethernet > microRendu.

 

Running Roon and HQPlayer on the Mac Mini

 

Hope this is more clear.

 

Steve Z

VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music.

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I have set this up. Works fine.

 

Couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

1- I have attached to microRendu to the Thunderbolt adapter and my switch to the Ethernet port - have you tried to swap this and whether that's any different?

 

 

2- It seems that it is not possible to create a bridge between the Ethernet port in the mini and the wifi - is this true or did I not try hard enough? My preference is to connect the microRendu to the standard Ethernet port in the mini and the mini to the network over wifi but this doesn't seem to be possible

 

 

3- If '2' is not possible at all (there's a comment on the Apple help page about this), what if I used a wifi USB dongle on the mini? Would this work? Or is there something inherently different in wifi connections that does not permit this?

 

Thanks.

 

I tried both the onboard Ethernet port of my Mini as well as the Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter for direct connection to my microRendu. I'm not sure I heard any improvement one over the other. It's easy enough to try without upsetting an established bridge and network, at least with a Mini and Mac OS -- I simply hot-swapped the two Ethernet cables at the Mini. Everything was still recognized by the bridge and network.

 

I haven't tried getting WiFi to work yet and it appears from the comments since you posted your questions that it probably won't which seems strange because during the initial setup process in the OS Networking panel it allowed me to check WiFi along with the adapter when setting up the bridge.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Steve Z

VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/19/2018 at 9:55 AM, austinpop said:

 

Ah I didn't answer this. The SE direct to the tX-USBultra is better in 2 key ways: 

  • dynamics: music sounds more energetic and alive
  • darker, calmer, more relaxed sounding. Some call this a wetter or creamier sound. It just makes you sigh and listen deeper and longer.

 

Thanks for this.

 

Did you also try comparing SE direct to DAC, either this trial or in the past?

 

The reason I ask -- I recently tried a tX-USBultra powered variously by an Uptone JS-2,  Uptone LPS-1, and  Sonore Signature power supplies between my Innuos ZENith and Chord Blu MKII feeding a Chord DAVE DAC and didn't hear any particular benefit with the tX-USBultra, regardless of power supply.

 

I'm confident I'm familiar with the sound of my system, and the system itself is fairly revealing, so my experience would seem to fly in the face of common experience, at least here on CA.

 

Thanks for your comments,

 

Steve Z

VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, zettelsm said:
With the arrival of the Extreme, the feed from the LAN became:
 
DSL modem > copper jumper (Sablon ethernet cable) > StarTech FMC/Planet Tech SFP with -10dB attenuator > fiber > Startech SFP with -10dB attenuator/Extreme

CORRECTION (since I can't edit this post now):

 

The correct feed configuration from LAN to Extreme:

 

DSL modem > copper jumper (Sablon ethernet cable) > Startech FMC/Startech SFP with -10dB attenuator > fiber > Startec SFP with -10dB attenuator/Extreme

 

Obviously, mixing a Planet Tech SFP (1310nm) on one end and a Startech SFP (1550nm) on the other end would not have worked.

 

Also, in musical test track 3. above, it is Mozart's Piano Concerto 20 and not 2.

 

Sorry for the errors.

 

Steve Z

VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music.

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8 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Great work Steve,

thank you:-)

 

I agree, it is certainly a big advantage to have the Extreme in a set-up for these evaluations.

 

Matt

 

Thank you, Matt. I've learned a lot from this thread and others -- my pleasure to be able to give back a little.

 

Steve Z

VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music.

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8 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Anyone else powered their DSL router using a linear power supply?  I am also wondering what effect it might have if it's so far downstream...  

Yes, I am using one rail of an Uptone Audio JS-2 linear power supply to power the Actiontec DSL modem/router provided by my ISP. Even though the feed to my Taiko Audio SGM Extreme server goes directly from the modem/router I do not hear any substantial improvement in sound quality. So I’m considering using an inexpensive Jameco regulated linear power supply wall-wart on the modem/router instead, to free up that rail on the JS-2 for something else.

 

YMMV of course.

 

I stay away from the iFi supply — I tried one and sent it back after it degraded sound quality in a different application compared to a Jameco wall-wart LPS. And John Swenson has stated his measurements of the iFi are the worst he has seen.

 

Steve Z

VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music.

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  • 1 month later...

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