A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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11 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Yeah, I was surprised at the difference, changing out for the USPCB.  Like night and day.  Not to take away from the importance of the USPCB between the DAC and ISO Regen.  I didn't test it's differences.  Put it this way, I think the USPCB is just as important as the ISO Regen and I would replace all USB connectors with it.  If not possible, I would get rid of those components.  I think it's that good, thus important.

 

I don't think there is any compromise having a low power server close to other audio components.

In my case my 12V low powerd Jetway NUC is ideal, turned it on it's side, I'm also powering a 5V 2.5" drive with a LPS-1 connected by SATA II, short PPA sata chord.  Just waiting on a Paul Hynes SR7 to replace the current 12V led battery feeding the mobo.  But damn it sure sounds good. 

I have used hard adapters to connect to DAC/SU-1/Intona/Regens/IsoRegen, etc. I always found the hard adapters to sound better than any USB cable. I think we should also try to use hard adapters and see if USPCB provide any improvements over the cheap hard adapter. It is one of the item on my to-do list, but before we conclude USPCB is the best solution, we should try the hard adapters as well. The switch in the USPCB might not be the best thing to have, if your DAC used 5v from the USB, let's not ignore that,

 

I have never been able to use a hard adapter to connect to USB out from my PC due to physical constraints.

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Is there any info on romaz's server built anywhere?

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

I say that with a caveat because so far instead of just using an LPS-1 on my SMS-200 I'm now using the SR7 for my server (previously powered by an HDPlex supply) 

Johnseye: How much your server draws in watts? Which HDPlex you were using before? I have an SR7, but have not connected to my i7 6700 server yet, i use a 350W HDplex ATX LPS for now. I know total draw on my server is about 90W.

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36 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

nice post Elva, but kind of a bummer for those who like to use HQP...

I use HQ Player, and have an i7 6700 machine. I think these upgrades are still valid for higher power machines as well. I think if you limit your power usage, you can still be within 100W, and SR7 can support that.

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31 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Not sure if you guys read my post above.  My SR7 rail one has a 19v @ 190w and 12v @60w option.  My proc is an i7-7700T.  I'm upsampling PCM via HQPlayer and proc utilization is at 5%.  The actual wattage utilization for the entire server is around 20-25w.

 

Agree. But if someone like me who is up-sampling to DSD256 or 512, processor loads are lot more than 5%, but I hear you, and I concur, it should be still within 100w. I did put a watt-meter, and I measured 85w on my i7 6700 (which is a 65w processor, compared to your 7700T, which is a 35w processor).

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20 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

Good question!  Can one achieve the ideal HQP server utilizing clean power and a heavily modded mobo via sCLK-EX?  Or does a fixer still need to be incorporated?  Would additional sCLK-EX points, other than the original 4, help? 

I don't know?  But we do know that utilizing 4 sCLK-EX points on the server (directly involved in the streaming), inclusive of the tXUSBexp pcie card, seems to by the key in obtaining the so called "perfect" SQ stream (or for that matter in the so called Trifecta).  So someone is going to have to get SOtM to do a mod on their HQP mobo.  I think this would be a great opportunity to use two tXUSBexp pcie cards mounted in two lanes, one for input off a HDD, the other for ouput to the DAC.  One clock point could be utilized for both cards.

One sCLK-EX gives you four clock taps, so those will be utilized for say MoBo, now to fix txUSBexp card you need two more taps meaning another sCLK-EX? Is that correct? Where does their upcoming sCLK-OCX10 master clock fit in this equation if it does?

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My first basic question is that how a master clock plays in to this scheme when you already have a clock in the form of sCLK-EX. Pardon my ignorance in this topic please. Thanks.

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6 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

     If you go back in this thread and read from those who have incorporated a master clock in conjunction with their sCLK-EX, all have said that it made a difference for the good in SQ.  Increased soundstage was one of the consensus observations.

 

     Once SQ is "perfect" how can it be improved upon?  Answer, SQ is always a moving target, there is no point in which it is "perfect", it's relationship is like that of the concept of infinity.  You can always go further with diminishing returns.  Question is, how far before one says good enough? 

So, the mater clock rides on top of sCLK-EX, or SCLK-EX comes out. I think that is what I am trying to understand. Thanks.

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My question is that who does the clocking function when you have two clocks, one sCLK-EX, and one master clock with several taps which can be utilized for different components. In other words, if we have replaced the clocks on MoBo with taps from sCLK-EX, then what master clock does at that point? Thanks for helping me understand.

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On 10/4/2017 at 10:21 PM, austinpop said:

 

Not sure if this got answered? I was away from the thread for a day, and a lot of interesting posts!

 

I think I addressed your question in this post here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=722622

 

But in a nutshell:

1. the sCLK-EX board uses a frequency synthesizer to generate the 4 independent frequencies that appear on it clock outputs.
2. The sCLK-EX board uses an internal oscillator to generate the reference frequency for its frequency synthesizer
3. Additionally, it is designed to accept an external reference input, which can replace the output of its internal oscillator
4. Assuming the external reference has ultra low phase noise - like the Mutec, the Cybershaft, or the upcoming SOtM OCX-10, this low phase noise gets "inherited" by the sCLK-EX outputs.

 

Thanks Rajiv. Follow up question;

 

If we are going to feed Master Clock signal to txUSBexp in the end, is it possible to do that without sCLK-EX in between. I think answer is probably no, but just wondering. Thanks.

 

 

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General question on EMI sheets;

 

Can it just be just placed on top of say a DAC, or maybe taped with a painters masking tape on top and bottom? It should do its job. I do not really want to open and glue this inside, because my DAC does not have any vents and do not know what will happen to this sheet inside with heat.

 

 

 

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Rajiv: You can use JRiver as front end for HQ Player by using Geoffrey's method. Works well, and easy to implement.

 

 

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I thought someone said only 12v units are the right one for this application, version 3's?

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2 hours ago, GUTB said:

Does anyone know if there are linear power computer fans out there?

Don't understand the question? Are you asking if fans in a computer box can take power from an LPS?

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11 hours ago, Alan_J said:

SOtM Tri-Card Zero-Box Solution

 

By tri-card, I mean sCLK-EX, tX-USBexp, and tX-USBhubIN. Inspired by Romaz, Johnseye, and others, I wanted the simplest solution for utilizing sCLK-EX board, and asked SOtM to chain USB signals from tX-USBexp to tX-USBhubIN by some mod and external power from tX-USBexp to sCLK-EX to tX-USBhubIN. So the only thing outside PC before DAC is an external power supply, which is a small LPS-1. Although LPS-1 is hot, it is supplying power for all 3 SOtM cards. Installing them was a little tricky, but I could manage it with the help of a photo sent by May. The photo showed the 3 cards connected with all the cables. System and ethernet clocks were not modded because I didn't send the MoBo.

After installation, I noticed tremendous increase in detail and decrease in digital grunge.  Lows were more natural and went down much deeper. Highs went up smoother and extended further without digital harshness. Many other aspects of audio SQ improved greatly including sound stage and transparency. The only negative thing I noticed at first was decrease in body and weight. After 7 days, however, it has gained body and weight to the point that I feel the balance is fairly good. I can't tell much more about SQ at this moment because it is changing (mostly improving) every day. One thing I want to note is that the addition of tX-USBhubIN contributes significantly to the enjoyment of music. Just with sCLK-EX and tX-USBexp, there still seems to be some subtle noise which masks high frequencies/harmonics. When tX-USBhubIN is added, I can hear the magnificent highs of piano, violin, and harpsichord. Because LPS-1 is the only decent power supply, I can't test the additional benefits of ISO-Regen. 

Just with 2 clock taps, SQ jump in my modest system (below $10,000 including SOtM cards) is beyond my expectations. A lot better than my previous separate system (costing 3 times). Of course, YMMV. I am very grateful to Romaz, Johnseye, austinpop, and all others who have contributed to this thread.

Alan: Please help me understand little bit more about the use of this chain and your digital front end; how are you using the three USB ports on the tx-USBexp, and tx-USBhubIN? Are you using a renderer like ultraRendu or SoTM product or going direct to DAC from one of these USB ports? Thanks.

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25 minutes ago, Alan_J said:

 

I am not using the usb port on tX-USBexp and just using one of the two usb ports on tX-USBhubIN to connect to DAC directly. If I use the usb port on tX-USBexp, I am hearing the sound coming only from sCLK-EX and tX-USBexp without the effect of tX-USBhubIN.

So am I correct in assuming that tx-USBexp is installed in one of PCIe slot of your PC, but if that is the case then why not connect DAC directly to this? Why go to tx-USBhubIN, and then connect DAC to that? Thanks.

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Alan_J's idea is beginning to look simpler and lot more attractive at this point if it can provide significant/good boost in SQ as Alan reports. Seriously considering it.

 

 

 

  

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11 hours ago, lmitche said:

Moussa,

 

Startech USB 3 cables sound best here.  I've been through 4 to 5 brands, but no audiophile versions.  I'm happy with the Startechs  and not going there.

Are you referring to the one which came with the StarTec box or something else?

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3 minutes ago, TJHUB said:

I didn’t like anything I got from my LT3045’s boards, so I should just sell them.  

You are not alone.

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Some have mentioned silver DC wire in the past. I have not been able to locate any on Amazon or eBay. I know Paul Hynes sends that as an option, but if someone knows, I would appreciate a link. Thanks.

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5 hours ago, hurka said:

Just Clocked now singxer 24.576mhz with sclk ex,without IR,tx usb,nothing.Just sparky-singxer.DA work slave,no other clocks.

Simple: AMAZING!!!!!!!

Is that Singxer SU-1? Can you elaborate on it a bit please. Thanks.

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10 minutes ago, mozes said:

Guys who are active on this thread, I have an idea. Why don’t we raise $1500 among ourselves and brief DFI to build a custom motherboard for us. The technical gurus here can provide the specs and they will also test and evaluate the motherboard. I am sure we will learn a ton of things here.

 

What do you think @austinpop ?

I am in on the idea.

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On 2/28/2018 at 7:08 PM, lmitche said:

Try splitting your music server power across two power supplies and then we should talk about this once again.

 

Here is what one friend who tried it said:

 

"Complete blackness, vocals sound different than I've ever heard them before, there's a nuance in the voices that I've never heard. Incredible spatial separation both side to side and in depth and it seems that each instrument is perfectly marked out in space. Tonal balance is completely natural, to use a cliché very analog sounding."

 

I can't say it better myself.

Larry: I have a i7 6700 Gigabyte MoBo  and I am currently connecting 24 pin ATX and 8 pin CPU to a HDPlex 350W power supply. To power the mobo  8 pin by a separate power supply you take all four yellow wires and connect them to +12 and all four black wires to -12v/GND, is that correct? 

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On 5/29/2018 at 10:53 PM, lmitche said:

Nope, it's this one:

 

http://gothamcables.com/en/gothamcables/starquad/11301gac41ultrapro

 

 

 

Two layers of shielding separated by a thin insulation layer.

Where do you buy this in US?

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Larry: Question for you:

 

1. What else can be used between two braided tin shields other than heat shrink? 

2. I plan on putting another TechFlex braided plastic shield on top of everything to avoid direct contact from one another when bunch of cables are running all over the place, is there any downside to that? Thanks.