A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[kelvinwsy]

Direct connection between NAA and HQPlayer PC

I struggled with bridging my HQp PC to the NAA for weeks. The Ethernet poet just cannot bridge with the wifi adapter 

. I decided to get a dual port Ethernet card to try

Careless mistake and bought a PCI Card and not PCIe - does not fit 

After arranging a return I thought ... Hey I have 2 USB 3.0 gigabit ethernet adapter. Let me try 2 of these ...

first experiment was wifi to router and 2 gigabit on HQPLAYER PC - one connected to my router and one to the Ethernet port of my NAA

(a quad core fanless PC with wifi and Ethernet)

Did not work this is just standard connection method

2ND experiment . 1 more Ethernet cable to the router for the built in Ethernet port. W/O Ethernet cables into the 2 gigabit adapters

Then NAA on wifi to router without any Ethernet connection

then I connected the two Ethernet cables on the gigabit adapters .. one more to the router and one more to the NAA

BRIDGED the two Ethernet gigabit to the fixed Ethernet plug in the HQ PC

FAILED to connect to the router the bridge dropped the router connection

about to give up then I thought hey there are 2 ends of a bridge!!!

then BREAKTHRU!!

I bridged the Wifi and Ethernet connection on the NAA ... yes the NAA

The router came on line on the NAA to the router

The 3 connection bridge of Ethernet on the PC Connected to the router 

SUCCESS

Initial impressions listening is quiet yet more dynamic sound at slightly lower volume

and I believe the NAA - HQ PC connection should be more resistant dropping out of the network 

Just sharing my experience with all CA members

thx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kelvinwsy]

1 hour ago, kelvinwsy said:

Direct connection between NAA and HQPlayer PC

I struggled with bridging my HQp PC to the NAA for weeks. The Ethernet poet just cannot bridge with the wifi adapter 

. I decided to get a dual port Ethernet card to try

Careless mistake and bought a PCI Card and not PCIe - does not fit 

After arranging a return I thought ... Hey I have 2 USB 3.0 gigabit ethernet adapter. Let me try 2 of these ...

first experiment was wifi to router and 2 gigabit on HQPLAYER PC - one connected to my router and one to the Ethernet port of my NAA

(a quad core fanless PC with wifi and Ethernet)

Did not work this is just standard connection method

2ND experiment . 1 more Ethernet cable to the router for the built in Ethernet port. W/O Ethernet cables into the 2 gigabit adapters

Then NAA on wifi to router without any Ethernet connection

then I connected the two Ethernet cables on the gigabit adapters .. one more to the router and one more to the NAA

BRIDGED the two Ethernet gigabit to the fixed Ethernet plug in the HQ PC

FAILED to connect to the router the bridge dropped the router connection

about to give up then I thought hey there are 2 ends of a bridge!!!

then BREAKTHRU!!

I bridged the Wifi and Ethernet connection on the NAA ... yes the NAA

The router came on line on the NAA to the router

The 3 connection bridge of Ethernet on the PC Connected to the router 

SUCCESS

Initial impressions listening is quiet yet more dynamic sound at slightly lower volume

and I believe the NAA - HQ PC connection should be more resistant dropping out of the network 

Just sharing my experience with all CA members

thx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kelvinwsy]

Edit

Bridging can only be done on the two USB 3.0 gigabit adapters on the HQ PC

BUT I can bridge the wifi and Ethernet connection on the NAA ... just blind luck with the different PC Specs .. I don't understand as I am not a network expert. Just tried until it worked 

 

[kelvinwsy]

I have been struggling to bridge my HQPc to my minipc NAA . Tried every trick on the book .. finally spotted this on EBay: Unitek Y 3463 USB 3.0 dual Ethernet Gigabit adapter with auto hardware bridging or 2 PCs : 

it comes with win 8.1 driver .. compatible with WIN 10..

i installed it on the HQpc and NAA PC was bridged with auto IP addressing .. painless

Hqplayer found the NAA easily but u still need to power up the HQPC holding the dual adapter first and then the NAA PC .. run the DAC USB driver and then the net audio software then start up HQ player in that order.. very stable NA connection.. a record of 5-6 hours without stopping connection as long music is playing as normal 

try it.. good luck

[kelvinwsy]

I have been struggling to bridge my HQPc to my minipc NAA . Tried every trick on the book .. finally spotted this on EBay: Unitek Y 3463 USB 3.0 dual Ethernet Gigabit adapter with auto hardware bridging or 2 PCs : 

it comes with win 8.1 driver .. compatible with WIN 10..

i installed it on the HQpc and NAA PC was bridged with auto IP addressing .. painless

Hqplayer found the NAA easily but u still need to power up the HQPC holding the dual adapter first and then the NAA PC .. run the DAC USB driver and then the net audio software then start up HQ player in that order.. very stable NA connection.. a record of 5-6 hours without stopping connection as long music is playing as normal 

try it.. good luck

 

An additional networking tweak

i found a cheaper version to Icron or PS LAN over USB EXTENDER Over the Ethernet 

found it on Lazada:: MT-VIKI USB 2.0 300 meter extender over 10/100 megabit network  (Icron had USB 3.0 version but is700Usd I think).. this is only about 45usd

i take the USB 3.0 output from my NAA try a Douk Audio USB 3.0 filter then into the local MT-VIKI Unit .. output is Ethernet .. I use a Cat 5e cable to the remote MT-VIKI  unit which takes the Ethernet and outputs USB 2.0 signal.

i power this remote MT-VIKI unit with a 5v from my linear D.C. Psu.. then into a LH REVIVE reclocker regen USB unit and into my iDSD Micro

 

Sound Quality is a giant improvement then before..

 

i have tried the MT-VIKI Unit direct connection to the HqPC USB 3.0 output .. without the NAA

GREAT improvement over direct USB output 

The USB Power filter and LH LABS revive re locker chain is constant in all cases 

 

SQ is still a bit less Calm and Quiet compare to NAA without using the MT-VIKI

 

The complete USB bridge and USB-Ethernet extender chai gives the best SQ

 

Just Sharing

 

Happy listening 

 

 

 

 

[kelvinwsy]

Thx

yes assigning static IP address is the way to go but my problem is that I switch off everything when I am not listening esp my tube monblic Amps powering my HD800 Hp

so this dual Ethernet adapter with auto bridging us just so convenient and easy 

the MT - VIKI USB extender is cheap and great for SQ 

thanks 

I learn so so much from this CA Forum

where I can contribute in my small way I will always do so

 

thanks again

[kelvinwsy]

i am also considering going with a teradak linear psu for mobo and use my corsair ax760 platinum psu for the GPU.. please share your experience ...

[kelvinwsy]

I have been using a MINIX NEO Z83 fanless mini pc as a NAA for more than a year.

It has 4 gb DDR3 RAM and a 32 gb emmc Samsung device. I have also run it as a stand-alone pc with JRiver MC22 and HQPlayer - In Hqplayer it can only do DSD64 before it stutters. PCM is quite solid performance up to 352 and 384 kHz.

I recently installed a SOTM SMS200 Ultra Neo as a 2nd NAA to compare.

While in a separate thread here on CA, i am doing a SQ comparison so i will just be brief here.

My Minix Neo has Win10 pre-installed. Tried everything to install Win 10 Pro or Win Server 2016 on the emmc, tried to install a bootable 64gb microsd card in the card reader slot. Tried UEFI boot etc. No luck. The emmc has the bootable OS and that is it. Confirmed by Support from MINIX

Your gentlemen may have better luck installing other OS's with newer generations of NUC from Intel than this 2016 Quad Core Cherry from Minix Neo.

 

As for SQ, even with my new SOTM SMS200 Ultra Neo I can say after 2 weeks on testing and comparison, the Minix Neo NUC is not a slacker. If I am to choose one factor why the SMS 200 Ultra Neo sounds better AS a NAA on HQPlayer is simply it has a MUCH better Clock and better power components. I fed the Minix 12v DC from a LPS, but the components on board are run of the mill standard fare.

 

SQ wise with Win 10 shutting down to 38-40 processes using Process Lasso / Fidelizer 8.2 Pro, it put up a brave fight against the SMS 200 Ultra. The HQ PC is running Win Server 2016 Core Mode Btw.

The Sound stage is wide, deep, and quiet. The sound images are not as precise and solid focused as in the SMS 200 Ultra Neo. The Neo is also quieter, deeper sound stage, and sweeter. All comparisons done with LPS1 feeding a 6 v 1amp LT3045 feeding the ISOREGEN via Uptone Audio's USBPCB to a iFi iDSD Micro BL and HD800/HE560/Final Sonorous VI.

 

And I voice my frustations with the SMS Ultra Neo - doing DSD512 is possible BUT only with the gentler filters up to DSD7/sinc-ext - It STUTTERS with the ADSM7+DSD512/sinc xtr-2 ... Pity!!

The Minix NEO runs through all the filters except the sinc xtr and the Closed 16M. Even the Mining filters can run == just an occasional flutter... Imagine that a 200 USD run of the mill minipc doing upsampling SO damn good!

 

So happy testing to everyone. I am now inspired to run my MINIX NEO minipc as a standlone Audio PC doing native file playback and see how it sounds!! 

 

[kelvinwsy]

2 hours ago, RickyV said:

@kelvinwsy i noticed that you are using a Intel X-25E ssd. What is your experience with it? Better SQ and where did you buy it? In other Words is it worth the money.

It is hard to say, my Samsung 120 gb SSD has Win 10 / Fidelizer 8.1 Pro / Process Lasso and fitted with the Elfidelity SSD III power (only) filter

while my Intel X25E has Win Server 2016Core Mode/Audioptimizer and SOTM II data and  power filter

Same  5v DC Linear Power Supply

So it is like Apples and Oranges

The remainder of the HQPlayer PC and the Quad Core Cherry Minix Neo NAA is the same..

on Ebay u can get a refurb Intel X25 for USD 60 

It is the reloading of the OS that is a pain

and u cannot hv the same OS on the same Hardware id no.. I think.. So 2 Win 10 pro 1 on Samsung SSD and same on Intel X. 25E wont work( u can download a trial copy of Win 10 Pro then u can!)

Finding a power filter for the Intel X25E is diffucult u can try the SOTM web shop ??

I found mine onEbay

Just a total OS / SSD Comparison I hv done

Intel X25E / WinServer2016Core/AO wins hands down-- It is quieter and calmer.. esp on crescendo music passages.. Sound images of sounds iike backing instruments in mid/left/right field background stands out more identifiable vs Win10Pro/Samsung

I will buy a Intel X25E for storing 64gb of my listening list and disconnect my 2Tb HDD to see if there isfurther SQ improvement. Doubt it as HQPlayer loads an entire playlist into memory b4 playback 

[kelvinwsy]

On 9/23/2018 at 11:25 PM, lmitche said:

In one of the posts above I acknowledged that this NUC exercise is a recreation of a ethernet to usb streamer, a wireless one. And yes it is complicated to setup especially given the immature state of the NUC bios. But that challenge is part of the fun of this, at least for me.

 

I would like to say the sq is better than a microrendu or sms200 and their variants, but I can't. Years ago,  I had early versions of both here, and they were immature products with operational issues that prevented an adequate evaluation. Given this history I have nothing to say about SQ comparisons.

 Maybe I can jump in right here.

I have been reading and watching @Imitche's NUC experiments with interest.

I run a 6700k HQ rig using a Clones USB SHAAR card to a MINIX Neo NUC - Cherry Trail 4gb/32EMMC NAA- IsoRegen/UltraCap iFi Idsd BL - with injection from a LT3045 1 amp into the IsoRegen.

So pretty same same as all of you guys.

 

In my ranking:

HQPlayer USB out into DAC - 3

HQPlayer Clones USB out to DAC - 5

HQPlayer Ethernet out to Minix NAA - 6.0

HQPlayer Clones USB through a USB to ethernet /Bridge to MINIX NAA - 7.5

 

All of the above is with Win 10 PRO Fidelizer 8.2 Pro/Process Lasso and using Task Mgr to shut down to 40 process or so. The Ethernet is through a Netgear GS105 on 12 v linear DC PSU.

 

Then I switched OS to AO and Win Server 2016 Core Mode.

Just the last of the above options HQPlayer Clones USB through the USB/Ethernet/Bridge to Netgear GS105 to Minix NAA - SQ jumps to say 8.5 or so

 

I switch the NAA out to my latest SOTM Ultra Neo - everything else the same the SQ jumps to say 9.5.

My weekend experiment - No very fruitful I think

I will try a Laptop in place of my HQPlayer PC and stream Ethernet to my NAA/ISoRegen/iFi iDSD BL chain.

 

I think the Audiolinux OS change may be responsible for a LOT of the SQ jump. 

If my NAA's BIOS allows for a different OS - IT DOES NOT!  I would certainly try the Audiolinux OS.

May buy another NUC to try. I would go for NUC recommended by Jussi @Miska \ He has this and it can do DSD256 upsampling without a GPU

https://up-shop.org/home/179-up-squared-gatewaypentium-n4200-w8g-memory64g-emmc-boardwovesa-plate.html

 

Cheers

Happy Listening

[kelvinwsy]

14 hours ago, Mark62 said:

 

The only reason I am interested in "why" is that it help narrow what to try.  Let's face it, there are an infinite number of things to try these days.  If I tried them all, I'd spend all my day installing and removing equipment and software.  I'd prefer to spend more time listening...which relates to your #2...I do trust my ears, but...again...not just going to go chase ghosts.

 

I took a stab on a microrendu recently (borrowed from a friend) and was shocked, so I bought an ultraRendu and was even more shocked so I kept it an returned my friend his loaner.  Each were as "night and day" different from my prior system as I had ever heard.  Pleased with that step.  If there's another I can find - I'll take it.

 

But regarding "the struggle" with bridging, I'm done w/this one.  I've tried every option I could (and yes - drivers fully up to the latest, etc.).  And, I don't think that "bridging" inherently creates what people claim to have heard...it's something else that is creating the claimed improvements - not inherently the fact that it's bridged.  And right now, my system sounds spectacular...best I have ever heard in my room.  Bridging looked like an easy thing to try, but turned out to not work in my system.  Net, I'll just "jam on"!

 

Mark

Why dont u try auto sensing hardware bridging with this

I use it with a Clones Audio Shaar PCIe audiophile USB 3.0 card

HQPLAYER pc to modem/switch

Plug this into the PCIE usb card connect one CT 6 cable to modem/Switch

Use a second cat 6 cable from this device to the NAA .

Power on tge HQPLAYER PC

Setup all Intermet coonections as per nornal

no need to fuss with fix IP just use DHCP

Power on the NAA 

and it will auto bridge with the HQPLAYER PC

If u use Fidelizer or Audiophile Optimizer then Hqplayer launches quick

Make sure your NAA connects to the bridge quickly

otherwise the NAA wil mot show up in the setup box for Ipv4

You can use Linear 5v clean DC for theUSB Card and this usb/ethernet bridge device

SQ Is great

 

 

 

 

[kelvinwsy]

11 hours ago, Mark62 said:

 

Thanks - that seems worth a try.  I'm heading out of town but will look into trying it once I get back.

 

Mark

Forgot to mention that since my SOTM Ultra Neo has no wifi , the signal has to be coming thru the bridging device and from the OXCO clocked Shaar USB3.0 card

But i hv a further refinement to my network bridging connection.. The SHAAR usb card has not enough voltage/current for the usb bridge maintain a steady network connection .

so get this (see photo) with the added benefit of injecting super clean 5v dc power

 

so the usb output from my Shaar usb card goes into this usb filter and the Usb/ethernet bridge is plugged into this device .. then the connection to the NAA

 

Further SQ Gains

[kelvinwsy]

Hi Mark 

You are correct but theory is one thing and practice is another. I plug in my Unitek USB 3.0 into the SHAAR USB3.0 sound card usb socket it only works intermittently..  Luckily i had the Elfidelity USB 3.0 power filter unit on hand.. and all is well (The wall wart for this Elfidelity unit is listed 5.32v output!! and it is 5amp current output max)

Anyway what matters is the signal going into the SOTM Ultra Neo is from the SHAAR audiophile card usb output .. SQ improvement

Heh i wont knock what works

And this whole dialogue is bcos you complain bridging was such a pain for u as it was the same for me .. At one time I had 2 usb to ethernet adapters in additionto the regular ethernet outlet port.. As I power off my entire system until my weekend listening sessions , it was a pain bridging one ethernet adapter after another.. 

Using the startechnir Unitek bridge is painless

Enjoy

 

 

 

 

 

[kelvinwsy]

1 hour ago, sig8 said:

Has anyone tried to JSSG 360 an 24 pin ATX cable? I am trying to do that, but do not know what to use for the shields. Please let me know. Thanks.

i have done JSSG 360 on a pair of SATA cables - one for the OS and one for the music SDD.

With a twist. I did a earth wire connection and led it back to the one IEC plug and earthed it at my Furutech eTGP-615 6 outlet unit.

I did a heavy shielding on the 24 pin ATX cable but did not do the 2nd layer of shielding. This Weekend's DIY Chore. 

Oh Materials. I use aluminium foil and basic scotch wrapping tape. I know - not what everyone uses. But the reduction of background noise is just unbelievable. So it works for me. YMMV of course

On my PC which uses a Corsair RMX 550 ATX PSU, the entire pC is filtered and all fans are filtered, Linear DC 5 V to each of the SSD's, even using HQPlayer and NAA with a SOTM SMS200 Ultra Neo Even THEN, I can hear the difference afterwards.

Audition with Live Albums. Sarah Bareilles - Live at the Variety Playhouse 96k from HD Tracks is a good test album.

Audience noise - Hall ambience. The increased height image positioning of her Piano soundboard/Key board vs the center of the microphone for her vocals is just astounding.

Some more testing this weekend after JSSG 360 on the 24 pin cable.

Happy Listening

[kelvinwsy]

25 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

i have done JSSG 360 on a pair of SATA cables - one for the OS and one for the music SDD.

With a twist. I did a earth wire connection and led it back to the one IEC plug and earthed it at my Furutech eTGP-615 6 outlet unit.

I did a heavy shielding on the 24 pin ATX cable but did not do the 2nd layer of shielding. This Weekend's DIY Chore. 

Oh Materials. I use aluminium foil and basic scotch wrapping tape. I know - not what everyone uses. But the reduction of background noise is just unbelievable. So it works for me. YMMV of course

On my PC which uses a Corsair RMX 550 ATX PSU, the entire pC is filtered and all fans are filtered, Linear DC 5 V to each of the SSD's, even using HQPlayer and NAA with a SOTM SMS200 Ultra Neo Even THEN, I can hear the difference afterwards.

Audition with Live Albums. Sarah Bareilles - Live at the Variety Playhouse 96k from HD Tracks is a good test album.

Audience noise - Hall ambience. The increased height image positioning of her Piano soundboard/Key board vs the center of the microphone for her vocals is just astounding.

Some more testing this weekend after JSSG 360 on the 24 pin cable.

Happy Listening

oh i did upgrade the two Sata data cables to a high gauge Japanese type.. This help in the SQ Jump I guess

[kelvinwsy]

31 minutes ago, Confused said:

 

Regards the NUC versus mR debate, I suspect what we have is an apples versus pears comparison.  In other words, it seems likely to me that the products like the microRendu / ultraRendu / SOtM items are superior in terms of the hardware offered, but the NUC solution pulls ahead due to the benefits of the Audiolinux implementation.  One thing does look clearly understood now, and that is all solutions benefit from good power.  There are also differences in operability.  The Sonore / SOtM products are Roon Ready, HQP compatible, can run Shairport etc.  They are also pretty much "plug and play".  To set up an Audiolinux NUC would take time and effort, and how much time and effort would be very dependant on an individuals skills and experience in the area, for some it would be easy, for others very difficult to impossible.  As an example, I am sure I could do it, but I know it would take me personally quite a lot of time and effort, which is time I do not have at the moment, so it effectively ceases to be a realistic option.

 

So I am speculating that the true killer product for SQ would be something like the ultraRendu or sMS-200Ultra but with Audiolinux fully integrated.  With decent power, of course.

I like to share my experiences.. I was using a Minix Neo Z83-4 Cherry Trail intel X5-Z8350 fanless minipc as a NAA with 4gb DDR3 Ram and a Samsung 32gb eMMC 

Running Win 10 preloaded as a NAA Endpoint to my Intel 6700k HQPLAYER PC - fully powered with a 12v Linear DC psu -Process Lasso / Fidelizer 8.1 Pro...  it was no competition vs my new Sotm SM200 Ultra Neo

 

If the latest findings by CA members that the new generation of Intel 7th/8th Generation NUCs sound better than everthing else, I offer my own theories why this could be so

1. The eMMC is noisy.. so running the OS from RAM is vital

2. Audiolinux is low latency low power with all the benefits

3. Switching from Win 10 gives a lot of the SQ gains Win 10 does not sound good

 

On the third point once i switch to Win Server 2016 core / Audiophile Optimizer on the Hqplayer big PC and with the same Minix Neo NAA

The immediacy, sense of calm and control jumped compared to win 10

 

I found the SOTM approach more user friendly

Used to spend long minutes on task mgr/process lasso  closing processes still running that Fidelizer did not shut down! 

but i am still going to try audiolinux on my Minix Minipc with USB Bootup and compare the SQ with Win 10 OS and the SM200 ultra neo

 

Results in due course

[kelvinwsy]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:34 AM, kelvinwsy said:

oh i did upgrade the two Sata data cables to a high gauge Japanese type.. This help in the SQ Jump I guess

Completed the JSSG for the 24 pin ATX and did the 2x4pin CPU PCie as well as the 2x6/8pin GPU PCie .. Fitted Ferrite chokes on every wire and must be under the JSSG LAYERS !

SQ goes up.. evident in Live albums where the hall ambience noises are clearer, more definite stereo positioning width, depth and height! 

Center vocals and sounds of accompanying instruments on left and right more precise in image lucidity and solidity

Well recommended tweak

[kelvinwsy]

5 hours ago, lasker98 said:

Has anyone been able to successfully bridge onboard LAN adapter and pci nic in Windows Server 2012 R2? My current configuration is sms-200 Neo configured for MPD/DLNA connected via ethernet cable to switch. CAPS V2 server running JRiver as DLNA server also connected to same switch via ethernet cable. Switch is connected via ethernet to router. Synology NAS is connected to same router via ethernet.  JRiver library is on NAS. I use JRemote on iPod for control point. All this has worked fine prior to attempting to bridge.

 

I've attempted various methods to make a bridge with my original onboard LAN port and a new PCI Intel single port nic (using DHCP for ip addresses for nics, using static ips, using different subnets as described by clipper in posts around page 13 of this thread)but when attempting to play files from NAS through JRiver all I get is severe stuttering during playback. I'm able to play Radio Paradise through JRiver with no issues which tells me that the internet side is working. It appears the issue is something to do with connectivity to the NAS with bridging. I pinged NAS, sms-200 and bridge and all seems ok (oms, no packet loss). I ran tracert on CAPS pc and it shows nothing off.

 

I've read up to page 100 on this read and so far have seen no definitive instructions for bridging server 2012 r2. Some seem to have usaed wifi dongle, others didn't. Some used dhcp server, some didn't. Googl search hasn't found anything helpful at all other than the links posted at beginning of this thread about bridging in windows 10. All I see for server 2012 is instructions for teaming.

 

I'm very frustrated at this point after spending yesterday and so far today on this. I can delete the bridge and reconfigure to original connections and back to listening to music at least. That may very well end up as my only solution but after all this time spent on something that seems so simple, I hate to give up now. I'm hoping some kind soul can take pity on me and point me in the right direction.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Bill

I am using Win Server 2016 Core Mode with Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer 8.2 Pro on a 6700k HQplayer to my SOTM 200 Ultra Neo

I use this as Hardware bridging

[kelvinwsy]

No stuttering with this bridge device

[kelvinwsy]

1 hour ago, MrUnderhill said:

Interesting observations.

 

I have had issues with digital glare, I have found that these have been related to POWER not to the operating system.

 

In my case I resolved the issues by paying close attention to grounding, isolation and applying good quality DC. I would encourage any reader to pay attention to this before looking at anything else.

My observations for a recent experiment I did., 

I use a heavily modded and filtered 6709k HQplayer Pc. Changed to a Corsair RM550x (5-8mv) from a Corsair Ax760 (25mv)and found a quieter sound ., Ripple specs of ATX PSU does matter. Got myself a Corsair HX850 when my Ax760 packed up! Experimented with powering this 6700k Cpu with this second HK850 psu. More power = slightly better instrument/vocal image position and solidity at the Cost of Increased Glare!!? JSSG all the power cables and added a Emf/Rfi power filter to contain the glare.. went back to a single Rm550x ATX PSU..

Power Does Corrupt?

 

Second Observation : I switched from Win10pro / Process Lasso/Fidelizer 8.2 Pro

to WinServer2016 Core Mode/AO/Fidelizer 8.2pro... WinServer 2016 wins ..?quieter, better sound imaging .. Dynsmics etc -less background process.. OS DOES MATTER.. Win10Pro .. I use Ramdisk to load say 6-8 CDs size music and Hqplayer was in second Ramdisk! (-Jussi says HQPLAYER SW and music loads into RAM anyway

WinServer server is better!

3rd observation

Not every NUC low power is good SQ

I was using a Minix Neo Z83 Cherry trail fsnless minipc 4 gb 32gb emmc as HQplayer NAA

Win10pro OEM OS with process lasso /fidelizer 8.2pro

My new SOTM SMS200ultra Neo beats it hands down

 

My new intel i7 8550u fanless minipc arriving next week

First experiment will be to load Jussi's bootable HQPLAYER Linux NAA 

Next will be AL on ramboot

 

SQ comparison 

reports will follow

 

Maybe AL ramboot on my 6700k server too

But no Roon License m..maybe use 1 month free trial license to try?

 

 

 

 

 

[kelvinwsy]

12 hours ago, MrUnderhill said:

Hi Kelvin,

 

Interesting.

 

From my POV I have generally worked hard NOT to use a PC/Server in my immediate HiFi environment. One advantage of the NUC is that I can power it from a LPSU, which is what I do. Wherever I can I remove SMPS.

 

I have found that increasing the amount of current available to NORMALLY be an advantage, but not always.

 

Like you I have found addressing ripple to be an advantage, and so make use of LT3045s.

 

I would emphasis that this is NOT within a PC/Server such as you are using. I think this would be an interesting series of experiments and observations, although not, perhaps, for this thread?

 

 

 

 

Well LPSUs are powering my OS SSD and my 1 TB Music only SSD. 2 units of 5V LT3045 2 amp battery powered PSU's on the way. to replace these LPSU's.

Yeh powering a PC with LPSU or 3045 or even custom hi spec LPSU is difficult

I had a mis adventure with a custom 820watt Teradak LPSU for powering the entire PC. It got destroyed in transit. Teradak took 1.5 months to refund me. Big after taste in my mouth. I will replace the 2 cheapo Chinese LPSU's powering my Win Server 2016 Core mode OS SSD and the pure music 1TB SSD. and retest for SQ.

 

My 6700k / Sotm SM200Ultra Neo system sounds great.

Once it arrives next week, I am trying with 8550u fanless minipc to run Jussi's bootable NAA rambootable image.

 

If it sounds good. maybe AL Ixqt?? running HQPlayer Embedded (linux) may be next. on the 6700k PC.

 

If this works even better than maybe I upgrade the 8550u to server PC status (i have a 64gb M2 Sata and 16gb installed just in case) and i will get another NUC as a endpoint, 

 

Wow! 2 complete systems one with Upsampling Power and the other playing Native Resolution.....

Pity my iFi idsd BL plays DSD 256 and 512 great. 

 

May hv to get another DAC ... No problem Chinese DAC's are priced from200 USD all the way to 4000. 

 

This hobby is fun isn't. ]

Hope everyone keeps good humour as SQ opinions are subjective and system dependent ( AND Volume level determinate). 

I read many comments and arguments being traded when no one can really explain our subjective SQ observations which are always system dependent.....

 

HiFi is a HOBBY Isn't it . Supposed to be FUN?

 

Happy and Peaceful listening everyone.

Kelvin

[kelvinwsy]

On 12/9/2018 at 6:43 AM, ted_b said:

 

My 2 cents worth - still a work in progress

I received my i7 8th Gen 8550u Fanless minipc from aliexpress.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-EGLOBAL-Fanless-Mini-PC-8th-Gen-i7-8550U-Quad-Core-2-DDR4-M-2-Mini/32913945612.html?

It is not the NUC's that everyone is playing with here and in the AL discussion forum 

BUT

 

I have these observations to share.

1. I just loaded Jussi's HQPlayer Ramroot NAA bootable linux file onto the 8550u. It loads and runs OK!

2. I compared it with my SOTM SM200 Ultra Neo as a HQPlayer NAA endpoint

3. I have my previous Win10Pro NAA endpoint : http://minix.com.hk/products/neo-z83-4-pro

 

Quick observations on SQ - exhaustive A,B,C testing will have to wait for this weekend.

A. The nature of the Sound Reproduction (not just SQ) between the 8550u and the Minix Z83 Cherry Trail is of a Similar Character. 

B. Both are expansive and impactful sound. The 8550U is much more so. 

C. The SOTM SM200 Ultra Neo is wider, deeper and imagery is much more focused. Less Exciting OMG impact if I can put it that way.

 

This week end, I will do more testing to confirm the above and I will then open up the 8550u and disconnect the 64gb SSD that I ordered it with (I intend to use it as a 2nd Music server for AL/Squeezelit/Roon/JRMC Media23/DLNA) whatever I can choose (16gb RAM) to see if there is a SQ Jump OMG moment.

 

But I was actually not surprised to hear the Sound Character of the 8550u. I think that the lack of audiophile components in the circuitry does affect the REFINEMENT of the Sound. Lack of precision clocking affects the sharp imagery that the SMS200 Ultra Neo can do.

 

I can on this weekend play with JRM Media /DLNA server mode on the 8550u and see how it sounds/

AL/Squeezelite will probably be next weekend.

Fun Isn't it This Hobby.

 

Happy Listening

Kelvin

[kelvinwsy]

I have done repeated comparisons between my NUC 8650u fanless minipc using Jussi 's Ramroot NAA vs SOTM Ultra NEO

Main Pc is 6700k heavily filtered -- DDR4 ram filter, Dual PCie Mobo filters, fan filters, ssd filters etc

Sara Bareilles HDTrack 96k Live at hires was main test file .. Eagles Hotel California XRCD File, John Denver An Evening with(re-mastered)

The NUC sounds Spacious and wonderful 

SQ is good 

BUT If your system is quiet .. low electrical noise 

When u listen to a good Live Recording u can hear that the image focus on the NUC is not up to par VS SOTM SM200 ultra Neo

The depth and width of the stereo image is superior on the NEO

The track with piano on the Sara Bareilles Brave Enough Live at the Variety Playhouse .. on the NUC you hear the piano sound spread slightly left to right of center. On the Neo the piano is slightly left of center and you can make out the sound mix for piano is right angled to the stereo left right stage .. You can just out Sara stepping in the piano pedals. Her voice is noticeable focused and distinct from the piano and has a greater height in the stereo sound stage.

 

On John Denver An Evening with.. The remastered CD has great SQ especially Hall acoustics and much better instruments and vocal clarity  (John and his band members backing vocals) AND the band's instruments and the orchestra( i hv the original vinyl LP)

On the 4th Track Summer .. The Universal Amphitheater in LA gives a clear resonant delayed echo to JD's voice

On the NUC u hear it as a slightly blurred 2nd voice of JD

on the Neo his lyrics are clearly heard on the hall echo

Other than the above , the SOTM Is a lot quieter than the NUC

AUDIENCE and hall sounds have clear positioning info into the distance away from the concert stage 

And these sounds have superior sound specificity and solidity

My Conclusion? YMMV of course

So i enjoy both devices 

Both tested with 12v LPSU from Ebay

LPS1.1 with Ultracap and LT3045 before the isoregen

iFi idsd micro BL output RCA to 2 Audionote Quest Silver 300b monoblocs driving Senn HD800 thru a hifiman resistor box

8650u fanless minipc - see image attached

16gb ram 64gb SSD but bypassed using Jussi's Linux bootable NAA ramroot file

[kelvinwsy]

Guess I did not say that i was comparing an Intel NUC although the nomenclature is Intel( it was a lazy naming task on my part)

A lot of the inspiration of this forum topic is trying to match listening inspirations of the 7th /. 8th Gen Intel NUC in fanless minipc .. what is the secret sauce that makes the Intel NUC SQ so good

I tend to agree that the main point is OS being light and Ramroot loaded seems critcal ... 

I find it hard to believe Intel 7th Gen mobos used in their kit sets and barebone units brong mass produced is the secret

And this is from Intel who did not manage the transition from 14nm to 10nm production process....

My take is that

8th Gen seems to sound better than 7th Gen Celeron lower powered NUCs

My experience bears this out as I hv another Cherry Trail quad core NAA fanless minipc

The new 8650u sounds so much more authorative and better SQ overall

Happy listening to everyone

 

 

[kelvinwsy]

Oh waiting for the v0.4.5 to be non beta stage

Will do it on my win pc which has a card reader/writer

Anyone kniws which micro sd card sounds the best?

The latest high speed Sandisk micro sd -- extreme pro uhs ii is premium pricing still