Jump to content
IGNORED

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


Message added by The Computer Audiophile

Important and useful information about this thread

Posting guidelines

History and index of useful posts

Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

Recommended Posts

On 3/21/2017 at 5:40 PM, amgradmd said:

 

Just bumping this since nobody has responded. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! 

Hi there, see my post above. I suspect that this might have to do with the interface metric issue that I have described. Try setting the lowest interface metric to the DS DAC network connection. I'm not sure if this applies to the MacOS environment, but there probably is a similar setting under the hood somewhere...

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Seatrope, nice post!  Well-written, easy to follow and, if it makes me personally succeed in this, a geniune classic! :) I've never heard of this approach, but makes sense logically.  Maybe folks like AudioPhil (AudiophileOptimzer) could add this to his setup wizard (he already accounts for HQPlayer in a custom shell).  Thanks!  

Thanks guys! Hopefully it works in systems other than mine. I always worry about posting something that only works in my system though from my understanding of network mechanics it does make sense.

 

Yeang

Link to comment

Well, today I tried getting the metric change trick to work on two bridged connections (instead of using DHCP server technique to provide an IP to the microrendu). No go. I could not find a way to change the preferred metric of the two bridged connections and the prior setting does not appear to stick.

 

If someone can find a way to change the metrics of the two interfaces in a bridged connection let me know. It may not be possible since they may be considered one connection now, but that doesn't explain why it still does not work.

 

Switching back to DHCP server with the metric trick gets it working again - the interface metric is sticky so you don't have to reset it every time.

Link to comment
  • 1 month later...
4 hours ago, lmitche said:

NUC update:

Well thanks to Alex Crespi, @Superdad I have been able to test the SQ of the NUC7CJYH powered with an LPS1.2 set at 12 volts. Many thanks to Alex for the LPS1.2 loaner.

 

My setup 

Three LPS1.2s are in use, the first powering the ISO Regen at 7 volts, the second powering Vbus injection to the DAC at 5 volts, and now a third powering the NUC with one stick of ddr4 2400 ram at 12 volts. Ramboot is from a Sandisk Extreme USB flash drive which is removed after boot completion. Roonbridge/Audiolinux headless streams the music to the DAC. Roonserver/Audiolinux headless runs on a quad core 8gb i7-6700k machine with boot from Optane and serves music over a 5ghz wireless connection to the NUC.

 

Normally the NUC is powered with a 15 volt Sigma 11 supply. To this point, this was the best SQ I have ever heard.

 

Adding the LPS1.2

 

The loaner LPS1.2 is energized by the Uptone supplied SMPS included in the kit. The LPS1.2 is set at 12 volts. The NUC has been running for over 10 days with LPS1.2 power and exhibits no apparent stability issues. A custom Gotham DC cable carries DC power to the NUC.

 

Sound Quality

 

What can I say? This is the cleanest most detailed and beautiful musical presentation I have ever heard here. I can definitely say it would be easy to pick out in a blind test. Besides a lower noise floor, the sound has lost a level of graininess that I didn't realize was there before.  While image size has not really changed, separation is best yet, both laterally (left to right) and in depth. The increase in clarity with the grain gone reveals another level of detail and presence cues adding to the "you are there" experience.  I am finding myself spending more time listening to music, as more of the qualities of the performance are revealed on well known tracks. Just amazing!

 

Conclusion

 

My suspicion that the LPS1.2 would be an ideal power source for the low current Celeron NUC is confirmed. I don't own any high end LPSes like a JS-2 or PH SR7 so finding a lower cost and obtainable power source for the NUC is great. Using the three LPS1.2s is like having 3 batteries powering the system, batteries that are always fully charged. With the inherent galvanic isolation, AC ground loops between power supplies are eliminated and the music can just shine through.

 

Highly recommended! Just be sure your power budget is at or below the 1.1 amps supplied by the LPS1.2.

 

Thanks so much @lmitche Larry! I was hoping that you'd find exactly what you reported as most of us can't afford the $$ or the wait for a SR7.

 

However, I've been searching for a similar solution powered by LPS1.2, that has one more little addition - a M.2 slot to allow for use of a audiophile quality USB card like the tx-USBexp that I have gathering dust. 

 

 

The problem is finding a J4005 class motherboard that has both DC barrel jack input AND a M.2 slot... my Google-fu isn't great but I've found a couple of options:

https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/02/12/gigabyte-mzglkai-is-an-industrial-mini-itx-motherboard-powered-by-an-intel-gemini-lake-processor/

https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/06/12/dc-powered-gemini-lake-motherboard/

I have not found where either of these can actually be purchased.

 

and also the Gigabyte NUC clones:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Mini-PcBarebone/GB-BLCE-4105-rev-10#ov

 

Though I wonder if the power consumption on any of these will push the LPS1.2 over the edge. I suspect we are right on the edge of the 1.1A capacity of the LPS1.2, no?

 

@seeteeyou do you have any other thoughts? An actual PCI-E slot would be even better...

 

Thank you again @lmitche!

 

Yeang

 

Link to comment
33 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Yes, that ssd card is likely to push things over the edge for the lps1.2. I tried something similar here. It didn't work.

 

Why do you need an SSD card for a streamer anyway? Boot from a stick or iscsi.

@lmitche Larry, perhaps you misread? Didn’t say SSD anywhere in my post. 

 

What i want is an audiophile USB output card, not an SSD...

 

to clarify, the M.2 is basically a Pcie slot which you can use a cable converter, to run a PCIe usb card like the ones from SOTM or JPLAY, with external power for them of course. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Yes, you are right of course. Still not sure what impact an external USB card would have on the current (amperage) budget.

 

I have to say that the sound quality is so amazing I'm not sure anything more is necessary. When I said end game. I'm not kidding.

 

You guys are suffering from premature optimization.  Never good. Get your hands on a NUC and have a listen. ;)

Good points all. I in fact already have a NUC, but the J5005 version, that I use for home automation duties. @rickca I do have a txusb Ultra but was thinking that having the SOTM card running too would be nice. 

Unfortuately my DAC is down for a month due to a shipping accident so no experimenting for me...

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

Other potential thoughts on adding additional interfaces to the nuc7i7DNBE board:

 

there are 2 M.2 slots which are unused... one the standard storage key M and one for the WiFi card with key E. We could use this to the key E slot:

http://www.commell.com.tw/Product/Peripheral/M.2 (NGFF) card/M2-210.htm

 

Or

https://www.amazon.com/Ableconn-M2-NW-107-Gigabit-Ethernet-Module/dp/B07599LZ5S

 

and potentially replace the clocks on these. Might work better keeping the USB bus to audio purposes only?

 

Link to comment
  • 1 month later...

Hi all and happy weekend,

 

Has anyone sourced some Furutech Nano Liquid, as per @romaz 's findings recently?

 

Looking online, several of the well known audiophile places (Parts Connexion, VHLabs etc) list it at $180. Several sources direct from Japan on Ebay and Amazon list at $99, significant difference.

 

Does anyone have experience with the Direct from Japan sellers?

 

Thanks!

Yeang

Link to comment
On 4/28/2019 at 11:25 AM, seeteeyou said:

They're listing that here for $70 plus a few bucks for domestic shipping within Japan

 

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/audio-s/nanoliquid/

 

Though we've gotta order through a shopping proxy service of some sort, I've been using this one myself and they're offering 10% off on Wednesdays / Thursdays / Fridays for Rakuten items

 

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/en/special/order/confirm/https%3A%2F%2Fitem.rakuten.co.jp%2Faudio-s%2Fnanoliquid%2F/N_1/

 

The fees are either 300 yen or 700 yen

 

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/en/help/servicePlan

 

I'm assuming that Squalene Oil wouldn't be considered flammable / combustible or else they couldn't have shipped stuff like skincare products outside Japan.

 

Thanks CTU! Seems to be a bit more hassle doing it this way versus paying ~ $20 more for the Amazon and Ebay sellers. My concern is in all of these situations, the possibility of fakes....

 

Anyone else bought from Rakuten or Ebay/Amazon?

 

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

Question for those who have had their NUC modded by SOTM:

 

I have experienced some occasional (1-2 times a day) loud hissing noise mixed in with music using Roon with the modified NUC and external REF10 master clock recently. I never heard this before NUC was modified, not sure if it could be from some problem with the NUC modification.
 
If I pause the music and hit play the noise keeps going. If I go back to beginning of the track and play, the noise goes away.
 
Has anyone experienced anything similar? Obviously this could be related to any number of things included network issues, Roon glitches or DAC problems as well.
 
thanks!
Link to comment
On 5/10/2019 at 3:35 AM, dctom said:

Hi seatrope I have an unmodified Nuc i7 it occasionally starts to play  a file with a strange tinny ringing distortion

it happens Two or three times a listening session- one track finishes no problem next one has the distortion stopping and starting track clears distortion - thinking it might be the upsampling. sound quality otherwise is excellent

using jriver pcm upsampling playing from an itx i3 server bridged direct to the Nuc, still experimenting with configuration. Currently using Ubuntu on both machines.

how do you get on with the Pacific (seem to remember you had volume level issues with GG)

listened to one a couple of times

I use a lampi GG btw

Hi @dctom

Loving the Pacific for the last few months now. The tube selection dial on the Pacific completely alleviates all my prior issues with output volume on the GG2. 

 

Found out finally that my problems were all due to a flaky USB cable! replaced that one and all the intermittent noise issues went away.

Link to comment
On 5/8/2019 at 1:15 PM, seatrope said:

Question for those who have had their NUC modded by SOTM:

 

I have experienced some occasional (1-2 times a day) loud hissing noise mixed in with music using Roon with the modified NUC and external REF10 master clock recently. I never heard this before NUC was modified, not sure if it could be from some problem with the NUC modification.
 
If I pause the music and hit play the noise keeps going. If I go back to beginning of the track and play, the noise goes away.
 
Has anyone experienced anything similar? Obviously this could be related to any number of things included network issues, Roon glitches or DAC problems as well.
 
thanks!

As an update to all, it was a flaky USB cable that was the cause. Obvious in hindsight, but I had 2 of them (NUC to txUSBultra and txUSBultra to DAC) that it took me a while to isolate the issue. 

 

I replaced the flaky cable and have been listening over 4-5 days without any recurrence of the noise issue, pretty confident that solved it. No fault ascribed to SOTM's excellent clock upgrade work; just so happened that before the upgrade I only needed 1 USB cable, and after the upgrade I needed 2, which is where the flaky cable came in.

 

 

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
23 hours ago, romaz said:

 

With AudioLinux, I was forced to cap an 8700K at 3.8GHz because any speeds beyond this sounded harsh and so this supports Jord's comment.  But with Euphony and Stylus, I let the 8700K run with no cap whatsoever and notice that CPU frequency will typically reach 4.4-4.5GHz consistently, however, I get no harshness at all.  In fact, the higher the frequency a CPU is capable of, the better, and so I imagine the ultimate CPU at this time would be something like an i9-9900K that provides 8-cores and a max frequency of 5GHz and a TDP of only 95w.  I hope to be able to test this soon but what I will say is that with Euphony + Stylus on a single box 8700K machine, my reclocked i7 NUC driven by a 19V SR7 sounds absolutely puny.  Even with the 8700K server powered by an HDPlex 400W ATX LPSU and with no special clocking outside of my tX-USBultra, I prefer the big server to the i7 NUC but as I have figured out a way to independently power both the 8700K CPU and ATX motherboard (using a DC-ATX converter) with SR7 rails, the i7 NUC has now been officially retired.

 

@romaz Thanks for your insights here.

 

FYI, if you have not read, there's been quite the debacle about the i9-9900K and it's "TDP" of 95W. There are numerous articles on the web about how this is quite disingenuous on Intel's part. The real TDP is more like 140W which precludes us running this processor in any of the HDPLEX chassis. If you really limit the 9900K to 95W the speed is more in the range of 4.1- 4.3GHz (excuse my poor recollection) and is about the same speed as a much cheaper 2700X Ryzen. 

 

Yeang

Link to comment
  • 4 weeks later...
18 hours ago, EnjoyTheMusicNow said:

I've made many tweaks since my last post. None were worth posting. None have had the impact that the SFP fiber had.... until now. Townshends podiums are unbelievable. Bases/stands at the bottom of the speakers in the pictures.  The separation of sound is amaizing. You can place your hand on the top of the platform and feel the vibrations from all frequencies. Then you place your hand on the floor (second floor / wood, not concrete) and you feel nothing. The bass is clean, which I expected. What I did not expect was the clarity from the mids and highs. Unbelievable. 20190616_192558.thumb.jpg.ba50b7e49ef0059ada49ddc9153f4a52.jpgI did only one speaker first to have an a/b compare - and to save my back. These speakers weigh close to 300 pounds each. The difference is not subtle. I know many of you run headphones but those who do not, make the investment. Improvement is like going from a 6 to a 10, with only one speaker done. No telling what two will sound like.

 

@EnjoyTheMusicNow

I must strongly second your opinion. This was one of the first tweaks that gave a dramatic change in my system, bigger than changing DACs, servers or most of the other tweaks I’ve done. Better than running dedicated lines with Topaz xformer. 

 

I had my Tannoy Westminster GRs for 6 months before I got the (custom) podiums that Max made. Huge difference in the bass and mid bass. Got rid of all the unwanted direct room coupling. One of the best tweaks I’ve done. 

 

I have their stands under my REL G2s as well (temporarily off to optimize speaker placement). 

 

The other great thing about them is that they make the 400 lbs each Westminsters easy to move by my self. I just slide them around; it takes effort but I can do it alone. Great for position optimization.

 

9263175E-E29D-4D94-BEAB-D1484697DCBC.jpeg

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, luisma said:

Thanks Bob, totally agree with you, simple things are wonderful. Upsampling worked for me on my SS amp which I sold more than 6 months ago and was replaced by OTL's mono's and I kept upsampling because why not? just when I decided to test Euphony which I could not upsample or play DSD because of limitations on my DAC (which Zelkjo very graciously is helping to get it added to Euphony's list of supported DACs), just then I realized the plain sound with no changes (like @Chopin75 was saying on his response to my post which by the way I have to read slow and carefully because there is a lot of info there I did not know before and valuable to me), the plain source with no changes sounded amazingly good. That made me go back and experiment and discard some of the "dogma" and I'm at that stage now. 

 

@Chopin75 mentioned something very interesting that PCM is more detailed and analytical and I think he is right on the money there, I am a neophyte in these matters and I'm learning all I can that's why I mentioned my learning from this community, so sometimes we may enjoy the details with "our ear right at the mic" and sometimes just the analog music feeling and I have to say we are so lucky (I was about to say blessed) that we are living in a time where we have so many choices for enjoyment and we can choose what to listen to and how.

 

My main thing with DSD was the glitchy Amanero Combo 384 board which with PCM when changes in bits, resolution etc. happened from track to track it started playing high SPL noise, an issue which made me always DSD upsample as it was completely stable there.

 

Thank you @bobfa and @Chopin75 for your comments.

 

Love to learn

 

 

@luisma If you have not heard, the most recent new Amanero firmware release, 2006be10, appears to have fixed all outstanding noise, glitches and pops with DSD and switching formats. It does DSD512 on Linux pretty much perfectly now. I’ve been running it for 2 weeks straight. I was hesitant to say anything given the prior issues with his firmware updates but this appears to be the real deal!

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...