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Roon 1.3 and Upsampling


sdolezalek
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Apparently Version 1.3 of Roon is a consideable upgrade that includes enhanced DSP capabilities (including a parametric equalizer) and your choice of upsampling everything to DSD128, 256, 512, etc.

 

Does anyone know whether they develped their own or are now incorporating HQPlayer's upsampling? I wish it was the latter (so we could continue to benefit from Jussi's wonderful filters), but my guess is probably not (so, I'll probably continue to use Roon and HQPlayer in concert as long as they don't disable the synergy they have created so far).

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>SMSL M500 DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

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Does anyone know whether they develped their own or are now incorporating HQPlayer's upsampling? I wish it was the latter (so we could continue to benefit from Jussi's wonderful filters), but my guess is probably not (so, I'll probably continue to use Roon and HQPlayer in concert as long as they don't disable the synergy they have created so far).

 

 

Hard to determine from the article, but the only mention of HQP is "Farewell HQPlayer, we hardly knew ye." Not sure what to make of that comment.

 

I would assume that these will be independent from each other and that ROON has its own filters. If that is the case, the question will be if the use/implementation of HQP as an "output" will remain. Hopefully they leave it as an option.

 

They could have very well worked out a deal with Jussi and integrated HQP technology, hmmmm. Who knows, have to wait an see :)

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Hard to determine from the article, but the only mention of HQP is "Farewell HQPlayer, we hardly knew ye." Not sure what to make of that comment.

 

It also says "Many HQPlayer users report a smoother, richer sound when upsampling PCM to DSD at source. Soon you’ll be able to access the same from within Roon itself." which is not true. Just like with JRiver, Audirvana, etc. It is not the same. It may be similar but to what extent is different question. :)

 

Just like with PCM, there's DSD and there's DSD, it all depends on how it came to be. Having same format doesn't mean having same thing.

 

To put it simplified 50% of the performance comes from the upsampling filter design and another 50% comes from the modulator design.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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It also says "Many HQPlayer users report a smoother, richer sound when upsampling PCM to DSD at source. Soon you’ll be able to access the same from within Roon itself." which is not true. Just like with JRiver, Audirvana, etc. It is not the same. It may be similar but to what extent is different question. :)

 

Just like with PCM, there's DSD and there's DSD, it all depends on how it came to be. Having same format doesn't mean having same thing.

 

To put it simplified 50% of the performance comes from the upsampling filter design and another 50% comes from the modulator design.

 

Thanks for clarifying :) I kinda figured the "soon you'll be able to access the same from within Roon" was in the general context of upsampling (theirs)

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For the many of us on this Forum who use and love HQPlayer, I think it will be important that we voice our view that Roon remain open to being used with third party add-ins like HQPlayer (but also Dirac for example). I don't blame Roon for trying to incorporate these types of improvements in their product, but I sincerely hope they will continue to allow us as users to choose which method of upsampling or DSP we like best.

 

So far, that has been one of the great things about Enno, Rob, Danny and the rest of the Roon team - they have worked hard to build an amazing product AND have remained willing to make that product open to teaming with other great third party hardware and software.

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>SMSL M500 DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

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I don't think there's any reason to think they will harm the ability of Roon to interface with HQP.

 

Why would they? It doesn't cost them anything, and only gains them more customers (HQP users). AFAIK, the guys at Roon are big fans of HQP. Having an internal upsampling feature allows them to compete with a feature of JRiver, and also opens an upsampling option to Roon customers who DON'T have HQP.

 

Darko's comments about DSD and HQP should be taken with a grain of salt. He doesn't use HQP and doesn't really listen to DSD at all (in any form). So he doesn't actually know what he's talking about when he makes those flippant comments.

 

No contradiction/conflict between the Roon upsampling feature and the ability to send a signal to HQP as far as I can see.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Roon's new tricks for room EQ, parametric EQ, Crossfeed and other tricks are all in the PCM domain.

 

For a DSD Native file that's played through roon, DSD is converted to PCM, processed with EQ, crossfeed and so on, then converted to DSD, so the DAC receives the correct sample rate. OK this is not new info, but this process should be explained a little better as each processing stage, surely mangles the signal to a degree or more. This poses another question on the minimum requirements for the processor in the host computer, methinks the i3 will become an i7+.

 

I would trust a company like Izotope to get (some of) the PCM processing correct, but roon are fresh at this, notably at DSD processing. Unless they have a strong established partnerships with pro audio mobs...like Sonic Studios (Amarra) (guffaw), after revision ZA perhaps. Oh BTW, Amarra 4 is late, which is not unexpected from them, mind.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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  • 4 weeks later...

I suspect they will do a fine job on this, and as noted, lots of different options are available, hey today is the last day of January!

Silver Circle Audio | Roon | Devialet | Synology | Vivid Audio | Stillpoint Aperture | Auralic | DH Labs

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Has anyone had a chance to do some comparison of quality: v1.3 upsampling vs HQPlayer upsampling?

Vinnie Rossi LIO (AVC/Tubestage, AMP Module with built in HPF 100Hz 24dB/octave, DAC 2.0), Harbeth P3ESR, Rythmik F8

Win10 i7-7700 -> Roon -> HQPlayer DSD512- > LIO 100Hz HPF -> Harbeth P3ESR

                                                                                ->LIO  -> miniDSP <100Hz -> Rythmik F8  

 

 

 

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Has anyone had a chance to do some comparison of quality: v1.3 upsampling vs HQPlayer upsampling?

 

Not rolled out yet, at least here. Yes, today is the day, but today is not over.

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All good things in good time...;)

 

They have to rollout for multiple platforms and Android/IOS devices....

 

Sure. They could have postponed the announcement until tomorrow. Announcing the release and then telling people in their own forum to be patient and that they "promise" they're working very hard to make it available is kind of lame.

 

EDIT: Looks live now.

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https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-3-is-live/19239

 

Roon 1.3 is now live!

 

Originally, we planned for 1.3 to focus on metadata, and in nearly every way, this release marks a major step forward in Roon’s ability to understand your music, and present your library as tightly knit web of composers and compositions, performers and performances -- artists and their work, and their influences, and their stories.

 

As things moved into high gear way back in September, the scope of the work came into focus, and we were faced with a choice. Scale back some of our more ambitious goals and ensure we had something live for the holidays, or move full steam ahead to really get it right.

We spent a lot of time looking over the Community Site. What were the most common requests? What do people find frustrating? What areas are we coming up short and, as the metadata work comes together, how can we really take Roon to the next level?

 

 

.....

Silver Circle Audio | Roon | Devialet | Synology | Vivid Audio | Stillpoint Aperture | Auralic | DH Labs

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Can it covert PCM to DSD on the fly?

Vinnie Rossi LIO (AVC/Tubestage, AMP Module with built in HPF 100Hz 24dB/octave, DAC 2.0), Harbeth P3ESR, Rythmik F8

Win10 i7-7700 -> Roon -> HQPlayer DSD512- > LIO 100Hz HPF -> Harbeth P3ESR

                                                                                ->LIO  -> miniDSP <100Hz -> Rythmik F8  

 

 

 

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