Bricasti's Best DAC isn't a DAC?

[bmoura]

Check your data... Pro audio is huge these days, as many, many musicians are running their own recording (my GF is one of those musicians). Additionally, Merging is now leveraging both pro audio and high end home audio.

Merging has made a point of promising to stay in the pro market. Interesting that they felt the need to do that. It was no doubt due to the actions of other companies that either a) left the pro converter market altogether or b) continued to sell older designs to the pro market but left newer designs and higher priced converters for the home audio market only.

 

My talks with converter makers over the years confirms that they know that the pro market is price sensitive and moves rarely to new equipment while the home market is the opposite.

[bmoura]

That is very unfortunate, because there are number of devices that give very good performance for very reasonable price.

 

One difference is also that in high-end market, many times more money goes into fancy looking case than the components inside. In pro-audio market the box doesn't matter so much, just the contents, as long as connectors and the device itself have good durability and can take some beating without breaking down.

Agreed. Sometimes the sizzle is a bigger selling point than the steak.

[michaelD]

I have had the M1 for a couple of years now and have been a very happy camper.  Eventually updated to the SE then added the M28's a few months back and recently have upgraded to the M12 .  I'm a big DSD fan and you can definitely hear the difference!  There is an option to switch back and forth that makes it pretty obvious quickly.  I do like the remote receiver integrated into the front panel.  Also I can now with the touch of one button on the M12 put it and my pair of M28's into and out of standby.  Nice!!  I also like the look of the slightly chunkier M12 its quite impressive.  There is also a L/R control that I've been playing with lately.  My room is not symmetrical (I think like most listening rooms) and from my testing I'm finding it does help balance out the sound at the listening position.  Not too much like 2dB seems to help just enough.

[michaelD]

On 12/28/2016 at 11:49 AM, Part-Time Audiophile said:

If that sounds like a lot of effort, it's because it is. Which is why the M12 is more expensive. But for those that have heard it, that alternative one-bit modulator path is extraordinary. Even with "only" 1x DSD. A back-to-back demo of the M1SE and the M12 was eye opening. For all DSD material, the M12 was clearly superior, with more 3-D depth and tonal richness. Now, for everything else, I'm pretty sure that I prefer the M1SE direct into the M28 amplifiers, though I'll have to get that gear in-house before I can do more than wave my hands at it.

 

Did you ever do a compare of PCM between the M1SE and M12?

 

[barrows]

On 10/31/2017 at 2:58 PM, michaelD said:

Not too much like 2dB seems to help just enough.

You could easily measure this with a simple iPad app (for RTA) with which you could balance levels at the listening position perfectly.

[Bones13]

M12 is now Roon compatible, and does DSD128 (unsure if still DoP, or native DSD, or if DSD128 is still only USB)

 

as I understand it, the streamer board is identical M1, M5, and M12. The M12 one was the last one upgraded to the newest standard.

 

as well, I think the PCM DAC boards are the same M1 and M12. M12 adds the DSD specific board (and does not have to convert DSD to PCM to run through the PCM DAC) this board makes the box have to be taller than the M1.

 

I am one of “those people” who wants to run a turntable, and phono amp, in addition to digital audio. Looking seriously at the M12 again, as it now does Roon.

[Bones13]

Got the M12 installed today. Thanks to Sanjay at Ciamara for making this happen. Unit hooked up  simply, and just simply worked.

 

A truly massive upgrade for me. Solid, holographic, soundstage. Better extension top and bottom.

(Prior W4S STP-SE + Bryston BDA-3)

 

I am using Roon, up-sampling everything to DSD128, and I can attest that the proprietary Bricasti DSD board is terrific.

[ciamara]

Thank you so much for the kind review and shout-out!  I'm happy to hear that things went so smoothly .... I was expecting to set up a video call with you to go through setup and optimization, but Bricasti has clearly made it easy.  Special thanks to Brian at Bricasti too for delivering a quality offering.  We aim to please, and we're here if we can help in any way ....  All the best!

[rodrigaj]

@Bones13

Did you connect the M12 thru the ethernet connection?

Have you compared the renderer to say, a separate renderer such as the ultraRendu into the M12 USB?

 

I am like you, I have an analog turntable/phono amp setup and the M12 is an intriguing mix of digital and analog.

 

@ciamara

Have you compared the digital inputs vs going directly to the M12 renderer?

 

My biggest disappointment with my PS Audio Direct Stream Dac w/ Bridge II was the Bridge II. I now use it just for Spotify Premium and use my uRendu/Audirvana+ for my NAS library.

[Bones13]

Yes, straight Ethernet from the switch to the M12. One of my aims was to simplify my setup, and eliminate some of the spaghetti in my audio stack.

 

Pre-Amp/DAC/microRendu+LPS+PSU => Bricasti M12

 

I am currently configuring a new NAS to be my Roon server, so the NUC is headed out of my system, with its PSU. The NAS lives in a closet elsewhere. The Roon Server app now is available directly on the QNAP system. Just make a RoonServer volume, install the app, and point it at the music directory, and your endpoint.

 

Bricasti M12 + K&K Maxxed Phono Amp will be my 2 audio components. In the rack, as amps and speakers are at the end of the room.

 

Ethernet switch will stay - I will consider upgrading it later, perhaps

 

Video will be an Oppo 203/Roku/Comcast box via HDMI switch with optical up to the M12. Whenever we "cut the cord" on cable, that box will disappear, and the Roku will output to the HDMI input on the Oppo, and the HDMI switch will be gone too.

 

And I am sorry Sanjay @ciamara - I am not good at waiting, so I set things up myself when I had time. We were out of town this weekend, and work has been brutal so far this week. I found this box to be quite easy to setup. It just plugged in, and worked. Roon found it without any prompting. I have not played with any of the settings as of yet. Perhaps one day we can go over those.

[Bones13]

Just now, Bones13 said:

@rodrigaj

Yes, straight Ethernet from the switch to the M12. One of my aims was to simplify my setup, and eliminate some of the spaghetti in my audio stack. The sound was so much better, right off the bat, that I won't worry about trying to make it complex again. This one item really gave me that wide, holographic, sound stage everyone always mentions.

 

Pre-Amp/DAC/microRendu+LPS+PSU => Bricasti M12

 

I am currently configuring a new NAS to be my Roon server, so the NUC is headed out of my system, with its PSU. The NAS lives in a closet elsewhere. The Roon Server app now is available directly on the QNAP system. Just make a RoonServer volume, install the app, and point it at the music directory, and your endpoint.

 

Bricasti M12 + K&K Maxxed Phono Amp will be my 2 audio components. In the rack, as amps and speakers are at the end of the room.

 

Ethernet switch will stay - I will consider upgrading it later, perhaps

 

Video will be an Oppo 203/Roku/Comcast box via HDMI switch with optical up to the M12. Whenever we "cut the cord" on cable, that box will disappear, and the Roku will output to the HDMI input on the Oppo, and the HDMI switch will be gone too.

 

And I am sorry Sanjay @ciamara - I am not good at waiting, so I set things up myself when I had time. We were out of town this weekend, and work has been brutal so far this week. I found this box to be quite easy to setup. It just plugged in, and worked. Roon found it without any prompting. I have not played with any of the settings as of yet. Perhaps one day we can go over those.

 

[ciamara]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:50 PM, Bones13 said:

 

Hello!  I'm glad you found setup easy.  The complexity of audio can sometimes be daunting, and it's even more daunting when we're trying to imagine how things work (or won't work) ... The best advice I can offer is to tinker, and play and have fun experimenting.  I'm often up, like a mad scientist, trying new things.  Sometimes I surprise myself by how quickly the time passes!  Other times I surprise myself by new discoveries.

 

Regarding the question about digital inputs, it's a little tough to answer that question, and I don't want to issue a blanket statement.  There are many variables in a high end audio system, so there is no one "right" answer.  If you find a significant difference with one vs. the other, please let us know and we'll try to get to the bottom of it.  

 

Thanks!

[cjf]

On 8/11/2018 at 3:00 PM, Bones13 said:

I am using Roon, up-sampling everything to DSD128, and I can attest that the proprietary Bricasti DSD board is terrific.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on Upsampling before the M12 despite Bricasti stating NOT to do that in the manual? Have you tried using no Upsampling before the M12? Any comparisons between doing and not doing it?

 

Thanks

[Bones13]

18 hours ago, cjf said:

I'm curious what your thoughts are on Upsampling before the M12 despite Bricasti stating NOT to do that in the manual? Have you tried using no Upsampling before the M12? Any comparisons between doing and not doing it?

 

Thanks

 

I interpret their admonition against upsampling to be against upsampling 16/44 to 16/88 and such.

 

"transcoding" PCM to DSD is technically what I am doing, to feed the DSD portion of the M12.

[barrows]

53 minutes ago, Bones13 said:

 

I interpret their admonition against upsampling to be against upsampling 16/44 to 16/88 and such.

 

"transcoding" PCM to DSD is technically what I am doing, to feed the DSD portion of the M12.

Most DAC manufacturers are going to resist the idea of customers oversampling in software before the DAC in question.  The reason for this is pretty simple to understand: the manufacturer worked hard to make the DAC sound the way they want it to sound, with the oversampling filters that are built into the DAC, so they want their customers to hear THAT sound.  The fear is that the customer uses separate oversampling, which makes the DAC sound different than what the designers intended (and perhaps not just different, but worse).  As the manufacturer has no control over what oversampling algorithm the customer might use, they are afraid that the customer will not experience their DAC at its best.

 

This is no reason not to oversample in software, and clearly there can be benefits to doing so, so anyone interested needs to try on their own, and make listening comparisons.