Article: An Audiophile Switches From iOS to Android

[The Computer Audiophile]

Android plays audiophile music just fine. There are music player apps that can play high-res like Neutron. There are even DSD players for a price. You can output digital via Bluetooth. Many USB DACs work on Android but only on regular USB 2.0 ports, not the just released USB-C. But sure enough full accessory support of USB-C will come.

 

Your problem arise because you want to use a USB DAC and charge at the same time. So you need to get a breakout box, just like Apple phones. So get a breakout box. Look I have done this more than 2 years ago without the hassle you went though. This what what most Apple people face once they exit the Apple econsystem. They have to start thinking. My app is Neutron music player and I configure it to output to the USB port where a DAC is attached via a data/power breakout box. The DAC is not Audioquest and it works like wonder. It a bit more expensive but it plays not only 24/192 but DSDx2. I feed the analog output from the DAC to headphones and to my big sound system. Sound quality is exemplary given the nature of this setup. This was done 2 years ago without so much as a hiccup.

 

So what's all the fuss?

 

Please read the article. You seemed to have missed the real issues.

[miguelito]

Do like I do, I use my Nexus 6P as a phone and an AK240 (latest firmware now features Tidal support) for music. Problem solved.

 

(but it makes for a very short article).

How do you stream over cellular with that? Possible but painful. You also need to charge two devices. Plus if you wanted to listen to Spotify (whose catalog is broader than Tidal) you'd be out of luck.

 

I have a Sony ZX2. Don't use it anymore.

[ChrisG]

How do you stream over cellular with that? Possible but painful. You also need to charge two devices. Plus if you wanted to listen to Spotify (whose catalog is broader than Tidal) you'd be out of luck.

 

I have a Sony ZX2. Don't use it anymore.

 

I don’t stream over cellular for one and, two, I don't use Spotify. However, if I wanted to stream over cellular, I'd just use the Tidal app and listen from my phone. Works fine for me.

[labjr]

I've been using Hiby Music Player to play back files from my Android phone. It seems to light up the correct lights on the DAC and sounds very good to me.

[feline]

Please read the article. You seemed to have missed the real issues.

 

Davy Wentzler Home has written the android audio driver which is a basis for UAPP. Fantastic software that since 2014 allowed many of us to use phones or tablets or PC (Android 86) with a dac for high quality audio. It is as excellent on android kit kat device as on Pixel. UAPP is also a UPNP renderer.

On the other note, what are the real issues?

[JJinPDX]

I'll have to read Chris' article again. The brain is slow. However, I've fully migrated to the Apple environment after eons everywhere else, and everything works. There are some issues, I agree, but why the Wild West? My daughter, after much frustration, got herself an iPhone. It works. She's a Ph.D. environmental scientist. She's pissed that it just works. My son, an engineer that leads ADS-B programs at an MIT lab is slated to go next, and can't stand the fact that by doing so he is giving up the Wild West. I'm not trying to do anything here other than asking, why? If it works, why switch? Is there something inherently superior about the Android OS that is appealing?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[The Computer Audiophile]

Davy Wentzler Home has written the android audio driver which is a basis for UAPP. Fantastic software that since 2014 allowed many of us to use phones or tablets or PC (Android 86) with a dac for high quality audio. It is as excellent on android kit kat device as on Pixel. UAPP is also a UPNP renderer.

On the other note, what are the real issues?

 

Glad you mentioned the same app I wrote about in the article you didn't read.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'll have to read Chris' article again. The brain is slow. However, I've fully migrated to the Apple environment after eons everywhere else, and everything works. There are some issues, I agree, but why the Wild West? My daughter, after much frustration, got herself an iPhone. It works. She's a Ph.D. environmental scientist. She's pissed that it just works. My son, an engineer that leads ADS-B programs at an MIT lab is slated to go next, and can't stand the fact that by doing so he is giving up the Wild West. I'm not trying to do anything here other than asking, why? If it works, why switch? Is there something inherently superior about the Android OS that is appealing?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

Very good question JJ. For me, it came down to change. I was ready for a change and felt a little bit like iOS was a fisher-price kids operating system. I also thought I wouldn't have the issues I ran into.

[labjr]

Anyone know if there's a ASIO driver for my new phone?

 

[rainerman]

You woes with using an adaptor to power the phone, while it drives a DAC at the same time sound more like problems with USB OTG, rather than problems with Android USB to me. That is because OTG is expecting a 1:1 connection between the phone and a USB device such as a DAC. This means it won't work with a USB hub, and I think the only way you can achieve your dual use aim would be via a USB hub where the phone is the host of a normal USB bus setup (ie as it would work with a laptop, rather than OTG with a phone).

 

I'm sucessfully using active USB2 hubs to connect my bus-powered DACs (Fostex HP A3/A4) via OTG cable to my android devices from Asus and Samsung. With UAPP hires PCM playback works fine. As far as I know, Android support for different USB devices is rather depending on your phone/tab model, manufacturer and firmware/os version.

With some active hubs (e.g. my 4-port USB2 from Belkin) you may even simultaneouslyly charge your Android device though against official USB specs.Acc. to USB specs (at least for USB1/2.x) the hub is not allowed to send power to the host device (in this case phone/tablet). But acc. to my german magazine c't, some active usb hubs are operating against this spec and supply power to both hub and slaves. Of course, your phone must accept the hub as a charging device. You'll need some trial and errorband carefully select your Android device.

Conclusion: my current setup (android device>otg cable>active hub>dac) is fine for playing hires music from local sd via UAPP, but not for e.g. listening/watching content in browser or VLC app.

[bogi]

Updated compatibility lists are some years already maintained on head-fi:

 

Android phones and USB DACs - Page 395

[Richard Dale]

I'm sucessfully using active USB2 hubs to connect my bus-powered DACs (Fostex HP A3/A4) via OTG cable to my android devices from Asus and Samsung. With UAPP hires PCM playback works fine. As far as I know, Android support for different USB devices is rather depending on your phone/tab model, manufacturer and firmware/os version.

With some active hubs (e.g. my 4-port USB2 from Belkin) you may even simultaneouslyly charge your Android device though against official USB specs.Acc. to USB specs (at least for USB1/2.x) the hub is not allowed to send power to the host device (in this case phone/tablet). But acc. to my german magazine c't, some active usb hubs are operating against this spec and supply power to both hub and slaves. Of course, your phone must accept the hub as a charging device. You'll need some trial and errorband carefully select your Android device.

Conclusion: my current setup (android device>otg cable>active hub>dac) is fine for playing hires music from local sd via UAPP, but not for e.g. listening/watching content in browser or VLC app.

 

It seems we need to report results on a case by case basis and post them on a forum like Head-Fi. It may be that a working combination to do what Chris wanted to do is out there, but it is difficult to predict what works.

 

As a data pointf from me, I tried my Moto G first gen/Onkyo HF Player into an iFi iUSB3.0 Nano into an iFi iDSD Nano and it didn't work, although the phone can drive the iFi self powered DAC directly just fine. I assumed that was because the iUSB3.0 is a USB hub and therefore the Onkyo USB driver didn't support USB hubs, and only a standard OTG configuration.

[JJinPDX]

Very good question JJ. For me, it came down to change. I was ready for a change and felt a little bit like iOS was a fisher-price kids operating system. I also thought I wouldn't have the issues I ran into.

 

Well, that's what I assumed. You need to go play in new, maybe more complex and maybe robust sandboxes. After all, you should be trying more and more, given your CA position. Makes sense.

 

I'm at an age where I'm not looking for complexity. I'm in fact shedding complexity in favor of time spent doing what is important to me and others. Like listening to music, and enabling others to do the same at very high levels of audio quality. But, it's got to work and be understandable.

 

When your sig other can't dial up a tune while you are gone, or she can't figure out how to get the entire system up and running after a power outage, then SQ at the expense of simplicity be damned.

 

Anyway, love the site and love the discussions and pushing of the envelope. Keep it up!

 

JJ

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[Roen]

Android plays audiophile music just fine. There are music player apps that can play high-res like Neutron. There are even DSD players for a price. You can output digital via Bluetooth. Many USB DACs work on Android but only on regular USB 2.0 ports, not the just released USB-C. But sure enough full accessory support of USB-C will come.

 

Your problem arise because you want to use a USB DAC and charge at the same time. So you need to get a breakout box, just like Apple phones. So get a breakout box. Look I have done this more than 2 years ago without the hassle you went though. This what what most Apple people face once they exit the Apple econsystem. They have to start thinking. My app is Neutron music player and I configure it to output to the USB port where a DAC is attached via a data/power breakout box. The DAC is not Audioquest and it works like wonder. It a bit more expensive but it plays not only 24/192 but DSDx2. I feed the analog output from the DAC to headphones and to my big sound system. Sound quality is exemplary given the nature of this setup. This was done 2 years ago without so much as a hiccup.

 

So what's all the fuss?

 

Davy Wentzler Home has written the android audio driver which is a basis for UAPP. Fantastic software that since 2014 allowed many of us to use phones or tablets or PC (Android 86) with a dac for high quality audio. It is as excellent on android kit kat device as on Pixel. UAPP is also a UPNP renderer.

On the other note, what are the real issues?

 

Fuss is that the Pixel doesn't do USB Audio nearly as well as the iOS Devices. Having used both the Pixel and the Nexus 5, I have no real complaints for the Nexus 5, I use Hiby which plays all my high res stuff through my DAC, using the native Hiby driver. If I want to route system audio via the DAC, I have to disconnect and reconnect, and prevent the DAC from connecting with Hiby, which is annoying, but necessary for the way Android implements its limited USB system audio.

 

Also, with the change to Android N, Hiby no longer detects my DAC. UAPP does, but has some minor DSD playback issues with my DAC specifically. Not sure if it's an Android N issue, a Pixel issue, or both. I have worked with Davy regarding this issue, but no resolution was made. So with the Pixel, I can't have perfect DSD playback of my collection like I could with the Nexus 5 on Lollipop.

 

On iOS, it's a system level assignment, so I don't need to reconnect my DAC if I want to watch Youtube or play high res stuff over Onkyo, I can switch from app to app. However, iOS as a system for audio, has it's own drawbacks, but that's not really in the scope of this discussion.

[romkop]

I've got a flagship phone from Huawei, which is a perfectly fine smartphone as far as I'm concerned. With money I saved compared to an IPhone, I also bought a Fiio x5 2nd gen portable music player and a very decent pair of headphones (Sennheiser Momentum 2, over ear, passive).

Fiio supports native DSD playback and 24/192 FLAC and all sorts of other formats iPhone owners can't even dream about, and copying files is as easy as copying them to an external SD card. Last time I tried to get some flac's on my old IPhone, it was a complete nightmare. And the sound quality is amazing compared to any phone.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I've got a flagship phone from Huawei, which is a perfectly fine smartphone as far as I'm concerned. With money I saved compared to an IPhone, I also bought a Fiio x5 2nd gen portable music player and a very decent pair of headphones (Sennheiser Momentum 2, over ear, passive).

Fiio supports native DSD playback and 24/192 FLAC and all sorts of other formats iPhone owners can't even dream about, and copying files is as easy as copying them to an external SD card. Last time I tried to get some flac's on my old IPhone, it was a complete nightmare. And the sound quality is amazing compared to any phone.

 

My old iPhone could play FLAC and high resolution up to the limit of the DAC. Copying files to an iPhone that way can be done with an app called waltr.

[Roen]

I've got a flagship phone from Huawei, which is a perfectly fine smartphone as far as I'm concerned. With money I saved compared to an IPhone, I also bought a Fiio x5 2nd gen portable music player and a very decent pair of headphones (Sennheiser Momentum 2, over ear, passive).

Fiio supports native DSD playback and 24/192 FLAC and all sorts of other formats iPhone owners can't even dream about, and copying files is as easy as copying them to an external SD card. Last time I tried to get some flac's on my old IPhone, it was a complete nightmare. And the sound quality is amazing compared to any phone.

 

I've played DSD 5.6 MHz files off my old iPhone 6S before. I've also done PCM to DSD 11.2 MHz real time conversion too. Not sure what you're trying to prove with your gimped setup. It was pretty easy too, just drag and drop.

 

If you thought copying FLAC to an iPhone is hard, considering how easy it is, it must point to user error.

[nsxelent]

Great article Chris!!

 

I've recently gone through a slightly similar frustrating experience but in my case, converting from my recalled Samsung Note 7 to an iPhone 7+. I use an Oppo HA-2 DAC/Amp with a manual volume control so I didn't have the enumerating volume level issue with my Samsung that you and others have had with the DragonFly. I've used the Onkyo HF Player and had no issues streaming hi-res and DSD files (via DoP) to my Oppo w/JH16 setup.

 

The issue I'm having with my new iPhone is it doesn't sync well with JRiver. JRiver recognizes the Samsug as an external hard drive - it actually provides seperate devices for the phone's internal memory and one for the 256gb SD card and automatically syncs playlists to either location. Apple only allows syncing through iTunes but after some research, sorting through a lot of misinformation (like some crazy jailbreak solutions) and going through several trial purchases, I finally found iExplorer that almost worked for me. It does well to sync DSD files but with ALAC files, JRiver can synch them but IOS prevents JRiver from seeing them again after syncing. So JRiver re-syncs duplicate (renamed files) again every time I reconnect. In order to get ALAC files to sync to the iPhone, I have to manually export playlists from JRiver to iTunes and use iTunes to synch them. Good grief!

 

Add it to the list of first world problems

 

Looking forward to seeing how you progress through this transition.

[ShawnC]

Great article Chris!!

 

I've recently gone through a slightly similar frustrating experience but in my case, converting from my recalled Samsung Note 7 to an iPhone 7+. I use an Oppo HA-2 DAC/Amp with a manual volume control so I didn't have the enumerating volume level issue with my Samsung that you and others have had with the DragonFly. I've used the Onkyo HF Player and had no issues streaming hi-res and DSD files (via DoP) to my Oppo w/JH16 setup.

 

The issue I'm having with my new iPhone is it doesn't sync well with JRiver. JRiver recognizes the Samsug as an external hard drive - it actually provides seperate devices for the phone's internal memory and one for the 256gb SD card and automatically syncs playlists to either location. Apple only allows syncing through iTunes but after some research, sorting through a lot of misinformation (like some crazy jailbreak solutions) and going through several trial purchases, I finally found iExplorer that almost worked for me. It does well to sync DSD files but with ALAC files, JRiver can synch them but IOS prevents JRiver from seeing them again after syncing. So JRiver re-syncs duplicate (renamed files) again every time I reconnect. In order to get ALAC files to sync to the iPhone, I have to manually export playlists from JRiver to iTunes and use iTunes to synch them. Good grief!

 

Add it to the list of first world problems

 

Looking forward to seeing how you progress through this transition.

 

With Jriver you don't need any files on your phone at all. Just stream it. That's the beauty with it. It will only compress Hi Res files to iPhones highest capabilities. I think that's part of the article everyone missed. With the Iphone (I'm assuming all phones) and Jriver you have access to your entire collection from home, at will, around the globe (Data charges may apply). Where there's no coverage, use Tidal off line for your content.

 

You have to configure your router to stream from your home to your phone. Jriver and CA, have articles to guide you through that process.

 

If all you want is Hi Res files then your SOL for streaming, they'll get converted. You can still load the files on the phone. This is where I think Chris was making an attempt with using an Android device. They have far more capabilities and open software to work with.

[nsxelent]

With Jriver you don't need any files on your phone at all. Just stream it. That's the beauty with it. It will only compress Hi Res files to iPhones highest capabilities. I think that's part of the article everyone missed. With the Iphone (I'm assuming all phones) and Jriver you have access to your entire collection from home, at will, around the globe (Data charges may apply). Where there's no coverage, use Tidal off line for your content.

 

You have to configure your router to stream from your home to your phone. Jriver and CA, have articles to guide you through that process.

 

If all you want is Hi Res files then your SOL for streaming, they'll get converted. You can still load the files on the phone. This is where I think Chris was making an attempt with using an Android device. They have far more capabilities and open software to work with.

 

Thanks Shawn. Oh yeah, I've tried several workarounds to my current issue with the iPhone. I stream often from JRiver but that introduces another set of issues. I travel a lot. Have you tried the wifi connection on American Airlines lately? I can barely get 64Kbps transcoded data to stream on their flights. I also have several hills around me and there are three Verizon dropout points on my drive to work. With my Samsung I could use JRiver to sync any file in any format to my phone. As you said, with ALAC files and my iPhone...I'm SOL

 

In my world:

 

- My car stereo works better with iPhone and iPods, especially the early gen Wolfson DAC classics

- iPod classics work better with ALAC files, they don't play FLAC or hi res files (without mods my car stereo doesn't like)

- My multi-resolution music collection works better through JRiver

- JRiver works (syncs) better with Android (or any non-IOS device)

- JRiver will sync FLAC files to my iPhone (with an iExplorer workaround) but since I use my car iPod more I keep everything in ALAC files

- My iPhone works better with iTunes (of course)

- My home network, mostly DLNA works better with JRiver and often has to down convert all high-res files

- My Headphone DAC supports DSD files and (fortunately) works well with all mobile devices

- None of my DACs support multi-channel DSD

- My main Marantz 8801 does not support DSD but it supports multi-channel hi-res (through HDMI)

- Oh and let's not forget, my phone works better when I'm on the same OS as my wife who also likes to check out new tech every couple years (especially with proprietary IOS apps)

 

My experience has been each of these platforms have there issues and wacky, frustrating and sometimes costly workarounds...which often rinse, cycle and repeat after each OS update or I change just one link in the chain.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[ShawnC]

Thanks Shawn. Oh yeah, I've tried several workarounds to my current issue with the iPhone. I stream often from JRiver but that introduces another set of issues. I travel a lot. Have you tried the wifi connection on American Airlines lately? I can barely get 64Kbps transcoded data to stream on their flights. I also have several hills around me and there are three Verizon dropout points on my drive to work. With my Samsung I could use JRiver to sync any file in any format to my phone. As you said, with ALAC files and my iPhone...I'm SOL

 

In my world:

 

- My car stereo works better with iPhone and iPods, especially the early gen Wolfson DAC classics

- iPod classics work better with ALAC files, they don't play FLAC or hi res files (without mods my car stereo doesn't like)

- My multi-resolution music collection works better through JRiver

- JRiver works (syncs) better with Android (or any non-IOS device)

- JRiver will sync FLAC files to my iPhone (with an iExplorer workaround) but since I use my car iPod more I keep everything in ALAC files

- My iPhone works better with iTunes (of course)

- My home network, mostly DLNA works better with JRiver and often has to down convert all high-res files

- My Headphone DAC supports DSD files and (fortunately) works well with all mobile devices

- None of my DACs support multi-channel DSD

- My main Marantz 8801 does not support DSD but it supports multi-channel hi-res (through HDMI)

- Oh and let's not forget, my phone works better when I'm on the same OS as my wife who also likes to check out new tech every couple years (especially with proprietary IOS apps)

 

My experience has been each of these platforms have there issues and wacky, frustrating and sometimes costly workarounds...which often rinse, cycle and repeat after each OS update or I change just one link in the chain.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Isn't computer audio fun:)

[nsxelent]

Isn't computer audio fun:)

LOL, yes it is

[tomsinclair]

Have you guys seen this player for android - https://igg.me/at/air-tunes they claim its audiophile quality and supports flac,alac,etc. Its got a bunch of effects like compressors, bass boost, reverb and whatnot. do you guys think getting this is a good idea?

[mansr]

Have you guys seen this player for android - https://igg.me/at/air-tunes they claim its audiophile quality and supports flac,alac,etc. Its got a bunch of effects like compressors, bass boost, reverb and whatnot. do you guys think getting this is a good idea?

Mostly technobabble. It also doesn't exist.

[jriver]

Nice article. Thanks. I learned some things.