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What's the deal with SET? (Single-end Triodes)


Ralf11

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Then again, I've never heard a system that could faithfully plop a symphony orchestra into the room. Perhaps they exist but it would not be possible, in terms of space, time and money, for me to seek out such a thing. If the key qualities of the recording are clear and coherent and the system captures the spirit of the performance, I'm content with that. Piano is the real challenge--if a system can get the sound of a piano right it's got a lot going for it, IMO. ;-)
Neighbors also matter... :) In my previous apartment I could not play loud. In my current one I can. I never knew how big a difference that would make.

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SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

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Without a closer look, I cannot be sure, but where is the horn and is one of the EL84s a driver? Or maybe you could tell me your definition of horn and single ended triode?

Yes, they're horns and yes they're SET amplfiiers.

Forrest:

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Without a closer look, I cannot be sure, but where is the horn and is one of the EL84s a driver? Or maybe you could tell me your definition of horn and single ended triode?

 

The horn is in the cabinet. It's called a "back-loaded" horn. The mouth of the horn is at the rear of the speaker.

 

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649217756-horn-shoppe-back-loaded-horn-speakers-great-for-tube-amps/images/1034214/

 

The amps are (I'm assuming) single-ended parallel EL34s wired for triode mode, driven by a 12AX7 high-gain triode, one section to drive each channel.

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True. I can't imagine someone being so stubborn as to insist bass drivers must be driven by SET as well. Wait... I can...

 

Well, some very determined people have worked relentlessly to do just that, but using specially tuned SETs just for those, and also specially tuned SETs just for the highs.

 

In all, 6-channels of specialised SET amplification.

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The amps are (I'm assuming) single-ended parallel EL34s wired for triode mode, driven by a 12AX7 high-gain triode, one section to drive each channel.

 

Pentodes strapped in triode configuration works.

 

Mine is using two Beam Tetrodes (Electro-Harmonix KT-88) strapped in Triode configuration.

 

That kind of pursuit - using other tube types but strapped for triode configuration for its linearity - is a valid approach and is a sub-branch of the SET audiophile tree :D

 

Would those more technically be SE.P and SE.BT? Maybe :D

 

My amp can also accept the EL34s as well.

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There clearly are different variety of horns! The hornshoppe is a single driver horn topology and at a terrific price for the quality. This is enabled by the new generation of low cost CNC routers. Not a bad entry.

I don't know a lot about Hornshop but I thought their speakers were backloaded horns.

If this is correct then they are not horns for the largest slice of their operating range.

 

R

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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I don't know a lot about Hornshop but I thought their speakers were backloaded horns.

If this is correct then they are not horns for the largest slice of their operating range.

 

R

 

They are certainly backloaded. They also don't cost $25k [emoji6]

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NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

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Gorgeous setup. I can't imagine what the cost of replacing those tubes would be... Just a nice pair of 211's is at least $1000.

 

Haha... I doubt many here would appreciate Romy's 'audio rules': Romy The Cat's Audio Rules

 

Mani.

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Haha... I doubt many here would appreciate Romy's 'audio rules': Romy The Cat's Audio Rules

Very cool. However, as prescriptive as he is about everything else, he doesn't seem to care whether his cat is an optimal acoustical spot and orientation. A miss...

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

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Gorgeous setup. I can't imagine what the cost of replacing those tubes would be... Just a nice pair of 211's is at least $1000.

 

6C33C's go for as low as $30 a piece, so really about the same as a decent KT88 or EL34. So it's not too bad. :-) A fantastic tube if you know how to work with them. Very high current demands, and tons of heat. :-) You can see the built-in cooling fans on the amps.

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6C33C's go for as low as $30 a piece, so really about the same as a decent KT88 or EL34. So it's not too bad. :-) A fantastic tube if you know how to work with them. Very high current demands, and tons of heat. :-) You can see the built-in cooling fans on the amps.

The best sounding 211's are still those from the 1940's. Finding a pair of NOS (New Old Stock) matched GE 211's from that era is not an easy or cheap task. Finding a matched pair or RCA 211's is much harder.

 

I also have a few pairs of new production 211: PSVane T series and Kondo, but they don't have the midrange of the GE's. I have never listened to RCA's in my setup.

 

It's rather awe-inspiring to be listening to music amplified by a tube made 72 years ago.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

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Haha... I doubt many here would appreciate Romy's 'audio rules': Romy The Cat's Audio Rules

 

Mani.

I have been visiting for many years and remember seeing you around there.

 

He has a very original and interesting approach to system building, although there doesn't seem to be any limits to budgeting.

A SET and horn setup is very expensive...

 

R

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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Yes, they're horns and yes they're SET amplfiiers.

I wouldn't call backloaded horns "horns" because the horns in such a topology are only being used as a crutch to increase bass extension, just a like a bass reflex or a transmission line but with a bit more complexity.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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I wouldn't call backloaded horns "horns" because the horns in such a topology are only being used as a crutch to increase bass extension, just a like a bass reflex or a transmission line but with a bit more complexity.

 

They are similar but not the same. There's a difference between a ported enclosure and a directive horn. Backhorn speakers literally use a horn to amplify LF response. The main advantage is in efficiency.

 

Type of Drivers : Speaker Components : Fostex

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They are similar but not the same. There's a difference between a ported enclosure and a directive horn. Backhorn speakers literally use a horn to amplify LF response. The main advantage is in efficiency.

 

Type of Drivers : Speaker Components : Fostex

Thanks, that is a nice link

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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Thanks, that is a nice link

 

You're welcome! I do agree that a genuine high-efficiency (like 103dB plus sensitivity), compression horn setup is difficult to build, and a good DIY one can be quite expensive. The commercial ones are rather fantastically priced--with good reason, I might add. Way beyond my budget.

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But they are not horns, and not even SET. There is a pair of EL34 connected as triodes. This is a far cry from what is being described when people talk about SET. It might be flea wattage, but it is not SET. IF you have spent time in front of 2a3 or 300B, you would know the difference. The price is a big factor here, as noted by these prices.

 

Forest I appreciate your perspective, but I want to share with you what Deniss Had said about the amp he built being questioned.

 

"This latest Inspire SE amplifier is playing and performing in my home listening room as I write this message. I just love designing and building vacuum tube single-ended amplifiers. I became hooked on Magnavox console amplifiers a few years ago. I simply was amazed how these console amps presented the music. I proceeded to acquire a number of the "Maggie Amps" to rebuild to my Class A designs. My audio buddies in the Carolina's started requesting I build some for them. Well to speed things up I became so "inspired" that I started building what I call "INSPIRE AMPLIFIERS" and yes, inspired by the 1960's Magnavox SE amps. I start with my drawing board, pencil and paper. Then acquire the raw .080 (12) gauge formed aluminum chassis, then to the drill press with special cutting tools and follow the drawings. Next is a trip to the paint shop that is only open on a clear day since it is behind the shop loading dock. After a number of coats of what I call 1963 Jaguar XKE Almond White paint and clear coat the chassis is ready for the components. I assemble each one with a vision of a master piece. Using the latest in double EE Teflon silver wire, precession resistors along with oil impregnated capacitors and 99.9 silver insulated input coax the INSPIRE takes shape. The power transformer is a 200% duty cycle with an input optional primary designed for world wide use. The INSPIRE will run in any country at 100, 120, 200, 220 and 240 VAC 50/60 Hz AC mains. The output transformers are a special air-gap design with a separate feed-back output winding. On the model pictured and presented in this auction I have loaded it up with all the trick stuff. Special RCA input jacks, super large heavy duty speaker posts and then to the critical parts. The coupling caps are oil and paper hermetically sealed in metal cylinders with glass wire lead outs. All electrolytic caps are by-passed for lower impedance with more of these oil filled film caps. The EL84 output tube auto bias system utilizes special oil and silver foil capacitors. The power transformer in this model also has a bit more secondary voltage that yields additional B+ plate voltage and I also lower the screen voltage on The EL-84's and this combo of higher plate and lower screen potential truly adds some real musical punch and loudspeaker control."

 

Base on the above description, what are your thoughts now regarding the amp? Thanks, Sam

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Forest I appreciate your perspective, but I want to share with you what Deniss Had said about the amp he built being questioned.

 

"This latest Inspire SE amplifier is playing a.......n The EL-84's and this combo of higher plate and lower screen potential truly adds some real musical punch and loudspeaker control."

 

Base on the above description, what are your thoughts now regarding the amp? Thanks, Sam

 

I am sorry if I have offended you. I simply feel we have an epistemology issue in that I do not consider a horn loaded port a horn speaker, and that amp has two output tubes making it by definition not "single ended".

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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