What's the deal with SET? (Single-end Triodes)

[YashN]

At the end of the day, SET is pretty much at the fringe of the fringe. It's perfectly fine to prefer SS. But if you want to argue with SET-heads, understand that they are rather passionate. Make sure you get your story straight before you start

Not sure who said it, perhaps it was Art Dudley, that rather than a branch of the audiophile tree, the SET approach was a whole tree in itself.

 

Within that tree there's the low-power and very high-efficiency branch.

 

There's the multi-amping branch, and the multi-amping only with SET sub-branch, and the multi-amping with a PP for the lower ranges sub-branch, the multi-amping with SS for the lower-ranges sub-branch.

[zackthedog]

I agree with mordante to some extent, in that there are a lot of high-efficiency speakers designs that I find unsatisfying in one respect or another. I heard some brand, years ago, I forget the name thankfully. It was a single 6 inch paper driver in a giant granite enclosure in some sort of labyrinth design. It sounded like a close-and-play record player. That's why I like the ProAcs. Though in demanding music I'm aware that I'm hearing a fascimile, the tonal qualities are robust and coherent.

 

Unfortunately I now live in the middle of nowhere and am not able to hear a lot of the new ideas being put out there. I do attend RMAF when I can but---well, shows, you know, It's awfully hard to judge what you're hearing at those things.

 

Then again, I've never heard a system that could faithfully plop a symphony orchestra into the room. Perhaps they exist but it would not be possible, in terms of space, time and money, for me to seek out such a thing. If the key qualities of the recording are clear and coherent and the system captures the spirit of the performance, I'm content with that. Piano is the real challenge--if a system can get the sound of a piano right it's got a lot going for it, IMO. ;-)

[semente]

Twenty years ago I heard a Cary 300B amp with a pair of ProAc Tablettes and that, as they say, was that. I now use a pair of original ProAc Response 2's, and they respond very well to 300Bs. I've spent the last 15 years building my own SET amps and enjoying them on the ProAcs. I listen to jazz, classical and some pop. I've played some pretty demanind stuff that friends have brought along to listen to and while you can't get head-banging volume, they do some pretty cool things in terms of hearing the instrumentation and colors. "Wow, I've never heard that part of the mix before."

 

This is quite common when comparing two speakers with a different tonal balance.

Less so with electronics.

 

R

[MothAudio]

How about @MothAudio's Silverline Sonatinas, probably also used with S.E.T.s running full-range?R

 

The Moth Audio/ Silverline Sonatina pairing is definitely on the fringe of the SET groupies. It's not an ideal set up but for my sensibilities and musical preferences [JL Hooker, Miles, Nick Drake] it works well. I've been to a number of Audio fests but haven't heard anything that has caused me to dump my amp or speaker. One of these days I'd like to hear the Moth with a pair of vintage Klipsch Cornwalls.

 

After owning various tube amps I eventually found myself feeling something was missing. The SET amp changed that. There's just a "correctness" to it that makes other stuff seem plastic. Then I heard a 45 tube and it went even deeper in that direction. I also loved the way it handles micro-dynamics and I found myself pegging the volume control less. I'm more interested in seduction than assault in my replay preferences.

 

But before I even consider other speaker options the next two upgrades will be swapping out my weak link / Chromecast for a microrendu and replacing the LCR electrolytic psu in the amp with a pair of Mundorf polypropylene.

 

 

 

[semente]

There's just a "correctness" to it that makes other stuff seem plastic.

 

I can relate to that.

 

As for Klipsch's I think that they might be a cheap way into horns that could serve as a starting point with a lot of flexibility and room for improvement.

You may end up using your S.E.T. for tweeters and mids and something more powerful for the bass, add a pair of subs and replace the original horns with better performing tractrix'.

 

I bought a pair of Consonance horns some years ago and optimised/improved their performance with some modifications but ended up selling them because they were too limited in performance scope and the project was becoming too expensive...

 

R

[shum3s]

I want to share my recent foray into the SET/ single speaker experience. I have been a ESL/planer guy over the past 20 years, I have been served with hours of tremendous musical enjoyment from them. In fact my current setup is Magnepan 1.7 power by a 600 hundred watts Sunfire amplifier, a wonderful combination. But I have in recent years wanted to go in the opposite direction and find out what all the commotion was about with SET and horns.

 

A couple of months ago I got my chance; pick up a used HornShoppe 95 db efficient speakers and a 5 watt SET amplifier custom built by Dennis Had former founder of the renown Cary Audio. Once I set up this system, integrating 3 subs using a 2x4 HD mini dsp, I must say I am enjoying this setup over the 1.7 which completely surprise me. The speakers completely disappear, the soundstage is wide with plenty of depth. The midrange competes very well with the 1.7. The 1.7 over all sound is fuller, but the trade off in not having the Maggie's over powering the room physically, is one I can lived with. It's just a different experience that makes listening very fulfilling. It is flat out amazing what a single 4" speaker can produce from a 5 watt amp!

 

Here is a photo of the setup

[TubeLover]

I'm currently using the JJ 2A3-40 which is 1/2 the cost of the Emission Labs 45. I'll get another pair next year. Thanks. Where is the rectifier mounted on your amp, inside or top side?

 

Topside I have the pair of 2a3's, and the 5AR4, inside are the ECC83's.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

There is no story. I'm sure SET can sound nice. But I've never heard it do so.

I think it would be a challenge to go to a audio shop spend less then 5k and walk away with a SET audio set. That includes speakers, amps turntable streamer etc.

 

Lets be fair. It's not even easy to go into an audio shop and buy a decent turntable and cartridge for less than 5K!

 

JC

[zackthedog]

I want to share my recent foray into the SET/ single speaker experience. I have been a ESL/planer guy over the past 20 years, I have been served with hours of tremendous musical enjoyment from them. In fact my current setup is Magnepan 1.7 power by a 600 hundred watts Sunfire amplifier, a wonderful combination. But I have in recent years wanted to go in the opposite direction and find out what all the commotion was about with SET and horns.

 

A couple of months ago I got my chance; pick up a used HornShoppe 95 db efficient speakers and a 5 watt SET amplifier custom built by Dennis Had former founder of the renown Cary Audio. Once I set up this system, integrating 3 subs using a 2x4 HD mini dsp, I must say I am enjoying this setup over the 1.7 which completely surprise me. The speakers completely disappear, the soundstage is wide with plenty of depth. The midrange competes very well with the 1.7. The 1.7 over all sound is fuller, but the trade off in not having the Maggie's over powering the room physically, is one I can lived with. It's just a different experience that makes listening very fulfilling. It is flat out amazing what a single 4" speaker can produce from a 5 watt amp! [ATTACH=CONFIG]31699[/ATTACH]

 

Here is a photo of the setup

 

Very nice. So what would you say you invested in that system? The Hornshoppes are $1K new, the Had amp is--maybe $1.5K? Not to be nosy, but I'm curious because there's a lot of talk about the exhorbitant cost of an SET system. ;-)

[shum3s]

Very nice. So what would you say you invested in that system? The Hornshoppes are $1K new, the Had amp is--maybe $1.5K? Not to be nosy, but I'm curious because there's a lot of talk about the exhorbitant cost of an SET system. ;-)

 

The used Horns were $500.00 and the Inspire amp cost $650. I already owned the subs and the mini DSP. Quite the bargain!

[semente]

Very nice. So what would you say you invested in that system? The Hornshoppes are $1K new, the Had amp is--maybe $1.5K? Not to be nosy, but I'm curious because there's a lot of talk about the exhorbitant cost of an SET system. ;-)

 

Single drivers are a crippled topology, hence the need for subs (and I would add in spite of).

It's shortcomings are well documented.

 

If you're happy with such a system then your requirements and expectations are well below what I expect from a system.

 

R

[4est]

Very nice. So what would you say you invested in that system? The Hornshoppes are $1K new, the Had amp is--maybe $1.5K? Not to be nosy, but I'm curious because there's a lot of talk about the exhorbitant cost of an SET system. ;-)

 

But they are not horns, and not even SET. There is a pair of EL34 connected as triodes. This is a far cry from what is being described when people talk about SET. It might be flea wattage, but it is not SET. IF you have spent time in front of 2a3 or 300B, you would know the difference. The price is a big factor here, as noted by these prices.

[accwai]

Single drivers are a crippled topology, hence the need for subs (and I would add in spite of).

It's shortcomings are well documented.

 

If you're happy with such a system then your requirements and expectations are well below what I expect from a system.

 

Thanks for pointing out... It's a big world out there. It's not surprising that some of us do not have lofty expectations as yours

[Kimo]

Thanks for pointing out... It's a big world out there. It's not surprising that some of us do not have lofty expectations as yours

 

You need to junk the Class A solid state and the expensive 300b amps, and get yourself a nice Emotiva. Then you will understand what high quality sound is all about.

[Keith_W]

Operating linear range and loudspeaker sensitivity are the operative words for using S.E.T. amplification.

I would add easy load to sensitivity.

 

Which of you S.E.T. users is actually abiding to the "rules"?

 

You @Keith_W (Acapella High Violon, Rythmik subwoofers x4) are good to go.

 

Yeah, except that I am not using a SET amp. The valves driving the horns are a 110W push-pull amp. I bought it much earlier (before I went active) - at the time I did not realize that it would not be sufficient to drive the whole system. Ultimately I will move back to SET's, because I think they are the best sounding amp - provided they are not pushed too hard. But at the moment, I have other priorities I need to address.

[jabbr]

But they are not horns, and not even SET. There is a pair of EL34 connected as triodes. This is a far cry from what is being described when people talk about SET. It might be flea wattage, but it is not SET. IF you have spent time in front of 2a3 or 300B, you would know the difference. The price is a big factor here, as noted by these prices.

 

There clearly are different variety of horns! The hornshoppe is a single driver horn topology and at a terrific price for the quality. This is enabled by the new generation of low cost CNC routers. Not a bad entry.

[jabbr]

The used Horns were $500.00 and the Inspire amp cost $650. I already owned the subs and the mini DSP. Quite the bargain!

 

Nice job! In the running for < $1.5k prize [emoji41]

[miguelito]

Not just lack of details, but lack of precision in both dynamics and tone. It's interesting that SET is usually characterized as euphonic, smooth etc. In reality, good SET matched with the right speakers usually sounds quite raw (in the good sense of the word ). And the dynamics of such combo is *brutal*. Believe it or not, everything else will sound vague and anemic once you have a proper experience of SET.

I own a 211-driven SET, and can attest to the massive dynamics coupled with incredible midrange subtlety and detail. Some of this is related to the type of speaker you're 'forced' to use with an SET amp, in my case Avantgarde horns, which themselves are able to produce massive dynamics. It is always surprising to me when I am listening to a loud passage and thinking that there's probably 1-2 watts being put out by the amp!

[miguelito]

There's the multi-amping branch, and the multi-amping only with SET sub-branch, and the multi-amping with a PP for the lower ranges sub-branch, the multi-amping with SS for the lower-ranges sub-branch.

Right. In my case for example I use an SET which drives directly (no crossover) the midrange horn, and (via crossover) the tweeter horn. The catch is the bass horns are driven by a SS internal amp with 530 W of power each. So SET... Sorta kinda...

[miguelito]

The used Horns were $500.00 and the Inspire amp cost $650. I already owned the subs and the mini DSP. Quite the bargain!

No SET is worth listening to if it didn't require you to spend an arm and a leg!

[YashN]

Right. In my case for example I use an SET which drives directly (no crossover) the midrange horn, and (via crossover) the tweeter horn. The catch is the bass horns are driven by a SS internal amp with 530 W of power each. So SET... Sorta kinda...

 

Very cool, it's still SET, the audiophilia tree though, since you're using a SET amp where it matters and shines the most, the mid-range.

[YashN]

No SET is worth listening to if it didn't require you to spend an arm and a leg!

Mine is.

[miguelito]

Very cool, it's still SET, the audiophilia tree though, since you're using a SET amp where it matters and shines the most, the mid-range.

True. I can't imagine someone being so stubborn as to insist bass drivers must be driven by SET as well. Wait... I can...

[zackthedog]

Single drivers are a crippled topology, hence the need for subs (and I would add in spite of).

It's shortcomings are well documented.

 

If you're happy with such a system then your requirements and expectations are well below what I expect from a system.

 

R

 

That's a pretty bold statement. ;-) It's worth noting that he needed subs with the Maggies.

[zackthedog]

But they are not horns, and not even SET. There is a pair of EL34 connected as triodes. This is a far cry from what is being described when people talk about SET. It might be flea wattage, but it is not SET. IF you have spent time in front of 2a3 or 300B, you would know the difference. The price is a big factor here, as noted by these prices.

 

Yes, they're horns and yes they're SET amplfiiers.