$10,000/ft Cable burn-in ! Wasted $500 a watt on an amp! Why the war?

[witchdoctor]

I no longer teach graduate level courses in microclimate analysis, or physiology for that matter, so it would be difficult for you to enroll. I'm sure there are universities near you and all are staffed with competent faculty, may world renowned.

 

People have posted a variety of sources for you to read but I suggest you start with an undergraduate text. If you will post your background in physics, chemistry and biology I will be glad to suggest one for you at the appropriate level. If your question was really about hearing and not climate change then I already started a thread on that to which numerous people have contributed. I can also suggest a text on cognitive psychology if you want to pursue perception and hearing further.

 

HOWEVER, from your posts, it appears your main problem is you are unable to distinguish between science and snake oil. The only cure for that is a healthy dose of reality.

 

There is ne need for you to be embarrassed about not knowing the answer. The facts are conflicting even among professionals and we will likely have to wait 100 years to see who is right.

[witchdoctor]

Was it a double blind test? Did you control for other factors like electrical isolation?

 

Do you mean with one of these?

 

ABX Comparator Switchbox

 

You can find them on ebay for like $200 if you look hard enough.

[Ralf11]

There is ne need for you to be embarrassed about not knowing the answer. The facts are conflicting even among professionals and we will likely have to wait 100 years to see who is right.

 

There is no conflict among professionals about the fact that climate change is occurring at a high rate, and that it is caused by human actions.

 

You will not have to wait 100 years either.

 

IF by "professionals" you mean the PR firms that used to work for the tobacco co.s and now work for the oil industry, then yes. (And yes, it is the same denier firms in both cases).

[gmgraves]

Well you are certainly welcome to your "beliefs", but what about the "facts" that disrupt your "beliefs"?

 

Scientists Debunk White House Global Warming Report | The Daily Caller

 

I am not wise eough to say what the state of the world will be in 100 years. But in audio all i have to do is hit the play button to know the "facts" about which audio product/format sounds right to me. You just can't rely on having the "right facts", too much conflict.

No wonder you call yourself "Witchdoctor"! Audio is electronics and acoustics; both of which conform to and obey the laws of physics. Neither disciplines have any connection to voodoo or the occult. And snake oil is snake oil, either in a bottle or a box or a blister pack!

 

On Climate change yes, your new president seems to think that global warming is bunk as well, but the rising sea level, shrinking glaciers, a screwy weather we've been experiencing for the last decade or so, indicates otherwise. Now, as I was saying about that river in Africa...

[witchdoctor]

No wonder you call yourself "Witchdoctor"! Audio is electronics and acoustics; both of which conform to and obey the laws of physics. Neither disciplines have any connection to voodoo or the occult. And snake oil is snake oil, either in a bottle or a box or a blister pack!

 

On Climate change yes, your new president seems to think that global warming is bunk as well, but the rising sea level, shrinking glaciers, a screwy weather we've been experiencing for the last decade or so, indicates otherwise. Now, as I was saying about that river in Africa...

 

Audio is electronics and acoustics to YOU. If I asked the question "What is audio?" to 100 people I doubt even one person would reply with that exact answer. Here are the "facts"

 

Audio | Define Audio at Dictionary.com

 

I am happy to see you agree with me about facts often conflicting. I am just using climate change as an example.

[gmgraves]

There is ne need for you to be embarrassed about not knowing the answer. The facts are conflicting even among professionals and we will likely have to wait 100 years to see who is right.

 

Sure, we can afford to gamble. The stakes aren't that high. Just rising sea levels, economic collapse, a devastating increase in hurricanes, tornados, cyclones, etc. We can look forward to the tropics being too hot to sustain life, the American midwest becoming tropical, the increased desertification of Africa, and once the "tipping point" is reached, an eventual Venus-like earth. Sure, let's sit on our hands and wait 100 years to see who is right. The only thing at stake is the future of the Earth and that's not important at all, is it?

[witchdoctor]

There is no conflict among professionals about the fact that climate change is occurring at a high rate, and that it is caused by human actions.

You will not have to wait 100 years either.

IF by "professionals" you mean the PR firms that used to work for the tobacco co.s and now work for the oil industry, then yes. (And yes, it is the same denier firms in both cases).

 

OK, now I can see why you prefer facts. You are close minded and aren't open to new ideas as far as I can tell since you already have the "facts" or propaganda from your post. How old is your stereo? My guess is you are still using electronics from last century, am I right?

[gmgraves]

Audio is electronics and acoustics to YOU. If I asked the question "What is audio?" to 100 people I doubt even one person would reply with that exact answer. Here are the "facts"

 

Audio | Define Audio at Dictionary.com

 

Well, that's irrelevant isn't it? We are talking about the hobby of audio as in High-Fidelity music reproduction, not the broad term Audio as defined in a dictionary. And music reproduction IS a combination of electronics and acoustics and is based on a number of facts that are not up for debate. But talking to you about this is like talking to a wall isn't it?

I am happy to see you agree with me about facts often conflicting. I am just using climate change as an example.

I don't know how you managed to take that opinion away from my comments. I doubt if I'd agree with you about where the sun rises and sets, much less about subjects of which you seem determined to remain blissfully ignorant.

[gmgraves]

OK, now I can see why you prefer facts. You are close minded and aren't open to new ideas as far as I can tell since you already have the "facts" or propaganda from your post. How old is your stereo? My guess is you are still using electronics from last century, am I right?

As usual, you couldn't be more wrong.

[witchdoctor]

Sure, we can afford to gamble. The stakes aren't that high. Just rising sea levels, economic collapse, a devastating increase in hurricanes, tornados, cyclones, etc. We can look forward to the tropics being too hot to sustain life, the American midwest becoming tropical, the increased desertification of Africa, and once the "tipping point" is reached, an eventual Venus-like earth. Sure, let's sit on our hands and wait 100 years to see who is right. The only thing at stake is the future of the Earth and that's not important at all, is it?

 

You are simply confirming what I said, that facts are not enough to make a decision because facts sometimes conflict.

If I asked 100 people what will happen if they stick their fingers in a light socket I think everyone will agree on the facts.

in audio the facts often conflict so much that it often is just a matter of preference.

[witchdoctor]

As usual, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

OK, so what are the "facts"? I am using JBL 230 speakers on my desktop which use the absolute latest technology from JBL based on their most advanced professional monitor, the M2 loud speaker. I have an Auro 3D setup in my HT based on the most recent advances in immersive 3D audio and that's a fact. What is your current system?

 

Don't be embarrassed if you use vintage gear, plenty of great vintage products around.

[witchdoctor]

As usual, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

So I checked out your system and am partially right. Your HK990 rocks, good choice.

Your weak point is your front end-

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Squeezebox-Touch-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B002LARRDA

 

If you don't get the signal right at the front end nothing will help downstream. I would consider replacing the logitech as funds allow.

As for all of your comments in your profile about cables making you laugh you again proved my point. You are close minded so actually I couldn't be more right.

After you replace the logitech get an ABX comparator and do some real blind testing with cables, you will soon obtain the "facts" you need.

[gmgraves]

You are simply confirming what I said, that facts are not enough to make a decision because facts sometimes conflict.

 

Is English not your first language? Because you seem to have confused the terms fact and opinion. Facts are undisputed. Opinions usually are. Facts are not open to interpretation, opinions and conjecture are.

If I asked 100 people what will happen if they stick their fingers in a light socket I think everyone will agree on the facts.

 

I suspect that you are right about that. The fact is, you will get an electric shock. It's an outcome not open to interpretation or opinion. Therefore it is fact.

in audio the facts often conflict so much that it often is just a matter of preference.

Again. Facts do not conflict, OPINIONS conflict.

[gmgraves]

So I checked out your system and am partially right. Your HK990 rocks, good choice.

Your weak point is your front end-

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Squeezebox-Touch-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B002LARRDA

 

Actually, you are not partially right. My current front end is a Mac Mini and an NAS 2 Gig HDD and uses a iPad for control. Also my DAC is a Schitt Multi-bit Yggdrasil Ladder DAC. My SACD/CD player is a Sony XA777ES. My main amp at the moment is a Krell S-550i. I still own the H-K but it's in my second system powering a pair Magnepan MG-Point Sevens. I just haven't upgraded my equipment list on CA because it changes so often.

 

If you don't get the signal right at the front end nothing will help downstream. I would consider replacing the logitech as funds allow.

 

Did that two years ago. Also it is still part of System 2 - and by the way, it's an excellent performer.

As for all of your comments in your profile about cables making you laugh you again proved my point. You are close minded so actually I couldn't be more right.

 

I have probably tested and reviewed more equipment, listened to more more cables - from all price ranges, than you have ever even read about! You seem to live in a fantasy world and are great at jumping to conclusions - usually your conclusions are fact-free!

After you replace the logitech get an ABX comparator and do some real blind testing with cables, you will soon obtain the "facts" you need.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I've been privy to more double-blind cable "shoot-outs" than I can shake a stick at. They all come out the same. No matter how good a cables sounds to the assembled DB testers, when the DBT is finished, nobody can tell one cable from the other. The differences just go POOF! into thin air. Those are the facts my deluded friend!

[r_w]

[Speedskater]

That fact was proven wrong to my ears using different cables.

Well proving anything in listening tests is a challenge. There are so many uncontrolled variables.

 

Many of us would be interested if you just demonstrated that you can in fact hear a difference.

Why not do a demo at a smaller hi-fi show or club meeting?

[witchdoctor]

So I checked out your system and am partially right. Your HK990 rocks, good choice.

Your weak point is your front end-

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Squeezebox-Touch-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B002LARRDA

 

Actually, you are not partially right. My current front end is a Mac Mini and an NAS 2 Gig HDD and uses a iPad for control. Also my DAC is a Schitt Multi-bit Yggdrasil Ladder DAC. My SACD/CD player is a Sony XA777ES. My main amp at the moment is a Krell S-550i. I still own the H-K but it's in my second system powering a pair Magnepan MG-Point Sevens. I just haven't upgraded my equipment list on CA because it changes so often.

Did that two years ago. Also it is still part of System 2 - and by the way, it's an excellent performer.

I have probably tested and reviewed more equipment, listened to more more cables - from all price ranges, than you have ever even read about! You seem to live in a fantasy world and are great at jumping to conclusions - usually your conclusions are fact-free!

You have no idea what you are talking about. I've been privy to more double-blind cable "shoot-outs" than I can shake a stick at. They all come out the same. No matter how good a cables sounds to the assembled DB testers, when the DBT is finished, nobody can tell one cable from the other. The differences just go POOF! into thin air. Those are the facts my deluded friend!

 

You are posting opinions and not facts regarding cable comparisons. Of the 100's of cable shootouts posted below it seems NONE of them came out the same.It seems we have both chosen what seems best for us. We both have "facts" to justify our choices. The "fact" is all cables do not measure the same but you clain they sound the same. Either your hearing is off or you must conclude that all components that measure different sound the same. Why do you keep changing equipment so much? what are you unhappy about? Check these shootouts, none of them conclude that all cables sound the same.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=disconnect&x=%2Fhtml&q=cable+shootout&ia=web

 

At the end of the day you do say audio cables are laughable in your profile. Is this still your belief or are you just trolling this thread?

[witchdoctor]

Well proving anything in listening tests is a challenge. There are so many uncontrolled variables.

 

Many of us would be interested if you just demonstrated that you can in fact hear a difference.

Why not do a demo at a smaller hi-fi show or club meeting?

 

I thing you should be interested in what benefits you, not me. If you are looking for a resource try www.thecableco.com.

They will let you borrow and test cables until your hearts content. The only demo you should consider worthy should be in your room with your equipment. Not mine, not a show, not anything else.

[witchdoctor]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]31796[/ATTACH]

 

I think you can get some great cables for hundreds of dollars (and pretty good ones for less than $100).

Save your money unless you need that lass few % of performance.

[witchdoctor]

I have never used Shunyata cables but for those of you interested in measurements and such it is a good place to start. If you don't like the article don't hesitate to contact Caelin Gabriel, he will be happy to follow up

The Audio Beat - DTCD Measures Up - Michael Fremer tours Shunyata Research and talks with Caelin Gabriel

[NOMBEDES]

Many cables "sound" different.

it is up to the user to determine if cable A sounds better than cable B.

 

Can any cable add ($100/$1000/$ ?)worth of enjoyment to a given system?

Again, that is up to the user.

[gmgraves]

 

You are posting opinions and not facts regarding cable comparisons. Of the 100's of cable shootouts posted below it seems NONE of them came out the same.It seems we have both chosen what seems best for us. We both have "facts" to justify our choices. The "fact" is all cables do not measure the same but you clain they sound the same. Either your hearing is off or you must conclude that all components that measure different sound the same. Why do you keep changing equipment so much? what are you unhappy about? Check these shootouts, none of them conclude that all cables sound the same.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=disconnect&x=%2Fhtml&q=cable+shootout&ia=web

 

At the end of the day you do say audio cables are laughable in your profile. Is this still your belief or are you just trolling this thread?

INTERCONNECTS HAVE NO SOUND! INTERCONNECTS can't change the sound. In order for audio interconnect cables to alter the signal passing through them they would need to have ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more inductive and capacitive reactance than any of them do, or they would have to be 50 -100 ft long. There is nothing in a couple of feet of interconnect cable that could possibly have any effect whatsoever on a signal in the audio bandpass. The difference between the cheapest and the most expensive cables is NOTHING audible. You could use coat hangers between components and there would be no difference between the sound of the coat hanger and the sound of $1000 Nordost cable. The reason why no cable shootouts come out the same is because when there are no differences, people's imaginations take over. Spend your money as you like, but don't try to justify the fact that you want to throw money away by continuing to perpetrate the myths spread by the audio snake-oil industry! That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

 

Happy Holidays and goodbye.

[Jud]

INTERCONNECTS HAVE NO SOUND! INTERCONNECTS can't change the sound. In order for audio interconnect cables to alter the signal passing through them they would need to have ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more inductive and capacitive reactance than any of them do, or they would have to be 50 -100 ft long. There is nothing in a couple of feet of interconnect cable that could possibly have any effect whatsoever on a signal in the audio bandpass. The difference between the cheapest and the most expensive cables is NOTHING audible. You could use coat hangers between components and there would be no difference between the sound of the coat hanger and the sound of $1000 Nordost cable. The reason why no cable shootouts come out the same is because when there are no differences, people's imaginations take over. Spend your money as you like, but don't try to justify the fact that you want to throw money away by continuing to perpetrate the myths spread by the audio snake-oil industry! That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

 

Happy Holidays and goodbye.

 

 

Don't know if you've ever heard of an audio engineer/designer named Bruno Putzeys? Quite a fanatic about engineering and measurement. Here's what he has to say on the subject:

 

 

“Textbook theory” is very often just a shortcut. When people say something like “In theory, it should happen like this . . . ,” what they actually mean to say is, “In the very first approximation, on a basic level, this is how it should go.” That’s oversimplification, not theory. Real theory isn’t so simple. It is like you say: in theory, cables shouldn’t make any difference. Well, hang on. Does that imply that you’ve actually looked at all of the established textbook physics that explains exactly what happens within a cable? I don’t mean “new physics,” like microdiodes or what have you, because I do think that’s a load of crock -- but, really, all the things you know happen when you, for instance, intersperse two conductors with a dielectric between them. How will that behave, for instance, when you actually put it up in a listening room and subject it to the vibrations that are caused by the speakers -- the triboelectric effect? Or just ordinary electromagnetic noise pickup from nearby mains cables? All these things are entirely known by physics and fully understood by theory. But the people who say that “in theory” it shouldn’t matter, they just look at one small corner in one particular textbook, where it doesn’t mention all these other things. Usually, where theory and practice deviate, it just means that your theory hasn’t gotten into enough theoretical detail. So far, I have not yet bumped into anything in terms of audible differences that I, or anyone with me, could hear that did not at some point connect with established theory and known physics -- by which I mean ordinary street-level physics, none of your fancy quantum stuff. You really do not need to invent laws of physics from a parallel universe to explain things. And you don’t have to excuse yourself to say that theory does not connect with practice. If you look close enough, you will find [the connection]. If practice and theory seem to deviate, you better have a sharp look at your theory.

 

 

You can see the rest at SoundStage! Ultra | SoundStageUltra.com (UltraAudio.com) | Searching for the Extreme: Bruno Putzeys of Mola-Mola, Hypex, and Grimm Audio -- Part One

[witchdoctor]

INTERCONNECTS HAVE NO SOUND! INTERCONNECTS can't change the sound. In order for audio interconnect cables to alter the signal passing through them they would need to have ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more inductive and capacitive reactance than any of them do, or they would have to be 50 -100 ft long. There is nothing in a couple of feet of interconnect cable that could possibly have any effect whatsoever on a signal in the audio bandpass. The difference between the cheapest and the most expensive cables is NOTHING audible. You could use coat hangers between components and there would be no difference between the sound of the coat hanger and the sound of $1000 Nordost cable. The reason why no cable shootouts come out the same is because when there are no differences, people's imaginations take over. Spend your money as you like, but don't try to justify the fact that you want to throw money away by continuing to perpetrate the myths spread by the audio snake-oil industry! That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

Happy Holidays and goodbye.

 

I don't think there are enough facts to substantiate either of our opinions the way you can confirm sticking your finger in a light socket. I wish you a happy holiday too. Thanks

[witchdoctor]

jud that was a great artcicle, look at the cables offered by Grimm Audio-

 

http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/files/1086/grimm_tpm_leaflet.pdf

 

TPM | GrimmAudio