Wall Outlets - any difference in SQ??

[Ralf11]

I am curious if anyone has heard a real or apparent difference in sound quality from replacing their wall outlets with either fancy ones or hospital grade, or Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems | Electrical Wiring Devices quality ones?

 

By real, I mean blind listening tests, by apparent I mean anything else...

 

It doesn't make sense to me (except maybe for high current draw from a big amp) but I also recognize that not everything is known (and if it was, it is not always possible to derive predictions of behavior at one level of organization in the universe from perfect knowledge at a much lower level - e.g. predicting metabolic performance of an animal from a perfect knowledge of chemistry).

 

 

Also, what about GFCI?

[mozes]

I replaced my cheap receptacles with Furutech GTX Rhodium and these do make a significant difference. A bit pricey, but in my system they are worth it. They not only work with amps as I was pleasantly surprised that they even improved the sound when I plugged in my wireless bridge router. I don't know how but they work.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[gmgraves]

I am curious if anyone has heard a real or apparent difference in sound quality from replacing their wall outlets with either fancy ones or hospital grade, or Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems | Electrical Wiring Devices quality ones?

 

By real, I mean blind listening tests, by apparent I mean anything else...

How could they? A mains socket merely couples the AC mains to the component's power cord. It either has low resistance and effectively couples the mains to the component or it doesn't. If it doesn't and has high contact resistance, it's a fire hazard, if it works as advertised it has resistance in milliOhms which is negligeable. A hospital-grade mains plug is merely mechanically more positive (not electrically). Hospitals can't afford to have life-critical electrical gear being accidentally unplugged because somebody pulled the cart too hard or tripped over the line cord.

 

Also, what about GFCI?

 

Well, if your stereo is in the bathroom or the kitchen where it can get water on it, perhaps a GFCI is indicated, otherwise it's not much use.

[Ralf11]

How could they? * * *

 

As per para. 3 above, I dunno. I suspect not at all but who knows - maybe there is a statistically valid DBL out there

 

 

somewhere

 

 

over the rein bow

[MarkS]

I replaced my cheap receptacles with Furutech GTX Rhodium and these do make a significant difference. A bit pricey, but in my system they are worth it. They not only work with amps as I was pleasantly surprised that they even improved the sound when I plugged in my wireless bridge router. I don't know how but they work.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Me too. And I also think I hear a big difference but concede I don't understand why, and it could be mental.

[Ralf11]

That's why I'm curious about blind testing

[accwai]

Me too. And I also think I hear a big difference but concede I don't understand why, and it could be mental.

 

It's probably more than just the metal: GTX NCF is a solid step above the first generation GTX. If I understand correctly, the metal parts are the same. The difference is in the body material.

[wgscott]

It might be the cover: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/outlet-covers-18971/

[accwai]

It might be the cover

 

Yup. And the 105-D NCF just came out recently too.

[witchdoctor]

I am curious if anyone has heard a real or apparent difference in sound quality from replacing their wall outlets with either fancy ones or hospital grade, or Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems | Electrical Wiring Devices quality ones?

 

By real, I mean blind listening tests, by apparent I mean anything else...

It doesn't make sense to me (except maybe for high current draw from a big amp) but I also recognize that not everything is known (and if it was, it is not always possible to derive predictions of behavior at one level of organization in the universe from perfect knowledge at a much lower level - e.g. predicting metabolic performance of an animal from a perfect knowledge of chemistry).Also, what about GFCI?

 

They make a huge upgrade to all of your components. This is the one I use VERY inexpensive and if you don't like it they will give you a refund:

 

Ultra Minimalist AC Outlets-shop.mapleshadestore.com

[wgscott]

Also, what about GFCI?

 

I've often wondered about whether this would somehow degrade the sound (I haven't tried). I like to have them anywhere I think there is any potential (pun intended) of a ground-fault electrocution, and I would include audio gear with that. Although I will not do it, some folks seem to like to lift the ground. At least a GFCI would give some backup protection (although with charged capacitors, it might not be enough protection). They do tend to be a bit more trippy than a conventional circuit breaker. Many amps have "slow" fuses to avoid such complications.

[gmgraves]

They make a huge upgrade to all of your components. This is the one I use VERY inexpensive and if you don't like it they will give you a refund:

 

Ultra Minimalist AC Outlets-shop.mapleshadestore.com

 

No wonder your "handle" is "witchdoctor"!

[Speedskater]

If the plug to receptacle form a good low resistance contact then there will be no difference in the audio. The question is: Will a bottom shelf (or middle shelf) receptacle make good contact on the first insertion? how about repeated insertions? is it of robust construction? will it's materials withstand a harsh environment?

 

When an audiophile hears a difference, there are many uncontrolled variables, starting with just re-plugging may improve the connection. So suggesting that this receptacle sounds this way and that receptacle sounds that way is doubtful.

[mansr]

I've often wondered about whether this would somehow degrade the sound (I haven't tried). I like to have them anywhere I think there is any potential (pun intended) of a ground-fault electrocution, and I would include audio gear with that. Although I will not do it, some folks seem to like to lift the ground. At least a GFCI would give some backup protection (although with charged capacitors, it might not be enough protection). They do tend to be a bit more trippy than a conventional circuit breaker. Many amps have "slow" fuses to avoid such complications.

 

Fuses and GFCIs serve different purposes. A fuse blows if the current exceeds its rating (with some tolerance for short spikes in slow-blow variants). If a malfunction, e.g. a short-circuit, causes a device to draw more current than is expected for normal operation, the fuse blows and averts a fire hazard. A GFCI compares the currents in the live and neutral wires, and if the difference is more than a few milliamps it breaks the circuit within milliseconds. Such a difference in current indicates that there is a leakage to ground somewhere. This can happen if equipment has been damaged such that a wire is touching the metal case, for example. If a person touches a device with such damage, he might be subjected to a lethal shock without a fuse taking notice. Even 10 mA at 60 Hz is enough to cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia. Of course, if you're foolish or unlucky enough to touch both the live and neutral wires, nothing will save you.

[Panelhead]

I purchased a pail of Hubbel 20 Hospital grade outlets a long time ago. These are the isolated ground version. The price was good, this NOS surplus.

I have replaced the wall outlets in two listening room and made a couple outlet strips using these. Top notch. Very high contact pressure, and phosphor bronze construction.

There are a lot of more expensive outlets available. They may be better.

The Hubbel 20 amp Hospital grade are a huge improvement over the builders grade (89 cents) outlets the builder installed.

[rando]

Posted this before. In Japan you can buy a personal and private electric pole, specify wiring into your breaker, and then your high grade outlets are justified.

[mansr]

Posted this before. In Japan you can buy a personal and private electric pole, specify wiring into your breaker, and then your high grade outlets are justified.

I bet it's still fed from the same substation as the rest of the neighbourhood.

[Ralf11]

If the plug to receptacle form a good low resistance contact then there will be no difference in the audio. The question is: Will a bottom shelf (or middle shelf) receptacle make good contact on the first insertion? how about repeated insertions? is it of robust construction? will it's materials withstand a harsh environment?

 

When an audiophile hears a difference, there are many uncontrolled variables, starting with just re-plugging may improve the connection. So suggesting that this receptacle sounds this way and that receptacle sounds that way is doubtful.

 

very true - there should be no difference

 

the real issue ought to be current flow, and it should affect an amp, but not a pre or DAC, etc. - OTOH, very low current draw can sometimes mean there are voltage spikes, but...

OTOOH, a competent circuit design should alleviate noise injection, shouldn't it??

 

I assume my outlets are as old as the house (1963)

[rando]

I bet it's still fed from the same substation as the rest of the neighbourhood.

 

I hadn't considered the half billion dollar solution for a couple hundred grand tops listening room. Just what sort of aristocratic fantasy you have cooking I can't even imagine.

 

The problem is items like air conditioners can alter the power supply you are receiving. Especially if they are cycling on and off with other high drain items at the same time.

[Ralf11]

hmmm... well, most solid state devices use DC

 

Solar panels output DC

 

therefore...

[rando]

Short of it is solar panels are a lesser power source in the grand scheme of sophisticated modern solutions for providing a constant power supply. I'll amend my comment above to include introducing new sources adding power to the mains as well as draining from it.

[Speedskater]

very true - there should be no difference the real issue ought to be current flow, and it should affect an amp, but not a pre or DAC, etc. -

If the receptacle to plug contact is good, current flow won't be a problem.

 

OTOH, very low current draw can sometimes mean there are voltage spikes, but...

I don't know how that could happen. Most spikes come from motors and compressors.

 

OTOOH, a competent circuit design should alleviate noise injection, shouldn't it??

Very true!

 

I assume my outlets are as old as the house (1963)

Two pin or three pin receptacles?

[mansr]

I hadn't considered the half billion dollar solution for a couple hundred grand tops listening room. Just what sort of aristocratic fantasy you have cooking I can't even imagine.

 

Audiophile power plants with oxygen free uranium. Pure silver power lines. Speaking of which, power companies clearly see the benefit of cable elevators.

[Speedskater]

I purchased a pail of Hubbel 20 Hospital grade outlets a long time ago. These are the isolated ground version. The price was good, this NOS surplus.

How did you deal with the Isolated Grounds?

There are a lot of more expensive outlets available. They may be better.

More expensive yes, better doubtful.

 

The Hubbel 20 amp Hospital grade are a huge improvement over the builders grade (89 cents) outlets the builder installed.

Very true! Hubbel makes some very nice receptacles.

[Ralf11]

good point - they are 3 pin - not sure when those started

 

BTW, I used to live in Cleveburg (I know.. it is much nicer now)