semente Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 No speaker is perfect. And no speaker topology excels in all parameters. But some speakers are less imperfect and some topologies are better all-rounders. Taste does play a part when it comes to choosing speakers because each of us reacts differently to each the various shortcomings and we end up choosing the combination which we find less taxing or more effective. But that doesn't give carte blanche for people (audiophiles and professional critics alike) to say that anything goes, that it's all a matter of taste and that even the worst performing speakers are valid because someone may enjoy them. High fidelity is about accurate reproduction and we should raise the standards of performance, not abolish them. R "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
matthias Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Jbl 3677 "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
RPM Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Ascend Acoustic Sierra Towers. Under 2500.00 with the NRT tweeter (which sounds great) 3,000.00 with the Raal tweeter Real wood (Bamboo cabinets) deep bass, excellent dynamics, wonderful mids..... Ascend Acoustics - Quality loudspeakers Made Affordable Via Direct Sales MacMini > Audirvana Plus > Musical Fidelity V Dac 2 > Emotiva XSP-1 > Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 > Ascend Sierra Towers NRT > Rythmik F12SE > Link to comment
DogsPart2 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 A few years ago, paid 2500 for new Vandersteen 2CESigII speakers. Nothing can touch them in this and slightly higher price range, IMHO. Link to comment
Harpy Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Got to plug the DQ-10s with their dedicated crossover DW-1 Subs. All the drivers were factory rebuilt in matched pairs. Cross Over factory rebuilt as well. Also liked the Spica TC-50. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Computer Audiophile mobile app Dahlquist DQ-10 Speakers DQ-LP1 crossover 2 DW-1 Subs Dynaco Mk III Mains - Rotel 991 Subs Wyred W4S Pre Gustard X10 DAC SOtM dx-USB-HD reclocked SOtMmBPS-d2s Intel Thin-mini ITX Link to comment
pdickerson Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Here's my contribution.... The speaker is the most important do Component. 5000x more than a USB cable or any such nonsense we like to dribble out money away on. If you are willing to spend 2500 double that. Who here has ever regretted spending too much money on music. If you can say yes you are In the wrong place. Spend the extra and here is the gem I will pass on to you. Aerial Acoustic 5T Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 there is another thread for $5,000 speakers Link to comment
ctsooner Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Lol. I totally agree. Many done have that extra 2500 and they can still get great sound. It's all about set up, room and pairing. I've heard many a speaker from Vandersteen to Pro Ac to a few of the others referenced in this thread sound better and better with top components that most would never pair them with. I'm lucky as I do spend more in my gear but I've put systems together for many under 5k total that many them happy and out smiles on their faces. I may meet you over at the 5k and up thread. Thanks Ralf Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile Link to comment
Paddlefoot Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 A few years ago, paid 2500 for new Vandersteen 2CESigII speakers. Nothing can touch them in this and slightly higher price range, IMHO. i just bought a pair of these with the stands a few months ago, great speaker for the money! Link to comment
ctsooner Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The newest model really takes it to another level I feel. The trickle down from the upper speakers is amazing to me. Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile Link to comment
simple_guy Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I'm really happy with my recently acquired Amphion Argon 1, I don't think I have even 100 hrs into them and for $1600.00 Canadian to my door, I feel like I got a lot value for my money. Link to comment
Ajax Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I would say the Linkwitz LX521's ...... I guess these are kinda cheating because they require assembly. I heard their little brother, the Linkwitz LX minis for the first time last weekend and was very very impressed. So much so that I am seriously considering purchasing a pair together with a pair of subs. Without going into the usual array of expletives of what I heard, below is a link to a review that I pretty much agree with. Linkwitz Lab LXmini Kit Speaker Performance Review - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com Details of there LXmini can be found here. LXmini construction The system I heard was driven by 180W per channel, Hypex class D amplifier, using the UcD180HG amplifier modules https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=2151 and SMPS400A180 power supplies (4 separate power supplies) https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=3140. Crossover duties and digital signal processing were handled by a MiniDSP 4x10 Hd https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-4x10-hd. The miniDSP 4x10 accepts digital and analogue inputs. My understanding is that you can purchase the speakers in kit form for around US$600 to which you need to add a 4 x 10 Mini dsp for US$550 or some other type of active crossover as well as power amplifiers for each driver. The pair I heard were sitting in the middle of a garage constructed with a concrete floor and brick walls and surrounded by machinery ... they sounded absolutely fabulous with not an acoustic absorbing piece of material in sight. Incredibly effortless and realistic sound... really smooth and engaging. They appear to be pretty much unaffected by their environment. If you assume that the DACs inside the cross over and the power amplification would both be needed for a passive speaker system in any case then I would guess the equivalent cost of the LXmini speakers, including active crossover, would be around US$900. Add US$500 to assemble and another $1,100 for a pair of 12" sealed powered subs such as the SVS SB2000 and you would have a phenomenal sounding system for around $2500 that would sound awesome irrespective of the room size or configuration. You could easily scrounge around the used amp market and find some older 2 channel power amps to drive the LXmini's tweeter and woofers if you wanted to save some cash. I have a gentlemen in Sydney, Australia offering to supply and assemble the LX minis for the equivalent of US$1500 and also a pair of sealed subs for US$750 leaving me with the purchase of the miniDSP 4 x 10 and the power amps. The LX Minis are two way and rated down to 50Hz with the crossover at 700Hz and would be fine as a stand alone in a small-medium size room and you most likely would not require the subs and you could save by purchasing the less expensive mini DSP 2 x 4 HD as well as benefit from the increase in quality from the upgraded DACs. You could then spend more on your amplification. If you get the chance I urge you to make the effort to listen to these amazing speakers - we use the term expert too often but when it comes to speaker design Mr Linkwitz certainly is one. LOUNGE: Mac Mini - Audirvana - Devialet 200 - ATOHM GT1 Speakers OFFICE : Mac Mini - Audirvana - Benchmark DAC1HDR - ADAM A7 Active Monitors TRAVEL : MacBook Air - Dragonfly V1.2 DAC - Sennheiser HD 650 BEACH : iPhone 6 - HRT iStreamer DAC - Akimate Micro + powered speakers Link to comment
ctsooner Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 There are a fair amount of build your own speakers, however most in this thread aren't DIY guys. No matter how easy they may be for some, most of us don't want to deal with that or can't. I've heard some of the DIY speaker kits over the years and some are very nice sounding, but for me, none have ever out performed some of the similarly priced speakers that are out of the box, set it and forget it. Congrats though on getting your speakers and I'm sure they will sound great in your system. Not putting them down, but saying most of us are into non DIY speakers. Link to comment
Ajax Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 There are a fair amount of build your own speakers, however most in this thread aren't DIY guys. No matter how easy they may be for some, most of us don't want to deal with that or can't. I've heard some of the DIY speaker kits over the years and some are very nice sounding, but for me, none have ever out performed some of the similarly priced speakers that are out of the box, set it and forget it. Congrats though on getting your speakers and I'm sure they will sound great in your system. Not putting them down, but saying most of us are into non DIY speakers. Hi ctsooner, I'm most probably the least capable person when it comes to DIY. As mentioned above in my blog "I have a gentlemen in Sydney, Australia offering to supply AND assemble the LX minis for the equivalent of US$1500 and also a pair of sealed subs for US$750 leaving me with the purchase of the miniDSP 4 x 10 and the power amps." He has a background in mechanical engineering (mine is in civil and construction) and he is working as a project engineer responsible for the technical development of the Murchison Radio-astronomy Observatory, which is about 350km NW of Geralton on the Western Australian coast ... read desert. I met him through the Sydney Audio Club and he is obviously a very smart boy. Anyway he has already built a few pairs of the LXminis (and a pair of the LX521s) and is currently building a pair of subs to go with the LXminis, the design of which have apparently been sanctioned by Mr Linkwitz so as to ensure they compliment the minis, and they will be ready for a listening session on Saturday morning. The thing about the LXminis that really impresses me is the incredibly hostile environment I heard them in and they sounded sublime. This is achieved by fixing a heavily damped cylinder behind a full range (above 700Hz) dipole speaker so the radiation from behind the speaker is attenuated or scattered and diffused in order to minimize the influence of any large reflecting surfaces behind. You can read about the design philosophy here but the technical discussion is pretty much beyond me. LXmini design All the best, Ajax LOUNGE: Mac Mini - Audirvana - Devialet 200 - ATOHM GT1 Speakers OFFICE : Mac Mini - Audirvana - Benchmark DAC1HDR - ADAM A7 Active Monitors TRAVEL : MacBook Air - Dragonfly V1.2 DAC - Sennheiser HD 650 BEACH : iPhone 6 - HRT iStreamer DAC - Akimate Micro + powered speakers Link to comment
ctsooner Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Ajax, that's awesome. The problem for me as well as many others who I'm in touch with off the boards is that it's still not a real speaker company and there is no true warrantee. As great as the DIY kits and builders may be, they are not full time speaker makers and can't compete with real speaker companies. I've been around the DIY community since the 70's. Heck, I built Heathkit projects, home made speakers, Hafler amps and I've modified Moscode's amp that I owned. I recently built my own ultrasonic LP cleaner. I respect these folks and feel that many are wonderful designs that if brought to market, would need a few tweeks to really compete with similarly priced products. I haven't heard your speakers, so I can't say anything about them, but personally (and I know many others who feel the same) that they would much rather have a pair of Vandersteen 2's or Focals or others than a DIY kit, which it is regardless of who is putting them together. Again, no knock and I'm happy that you love your speakers as you should. If I ever have a chance to listen to a pair, I'll certainly remember this thread and go in with a real positive approach. Pete Hi ctsooner, I'm most probably the least capable person when it comes to DIY. As mentioned above in my blog "I have a gentlemen in Sydney, Australia offering to supply AND assemble the LX minis for the equivalent of US$1500 and also a pair of sealed subs for US$750 leaving me with the purchase of the miniDSP 4 x 10 and the power amps." He has a background in mechanical engineering (mine is in civil and construction) and he is working as a project engineer responsible for the technical development of the Murchison Radio-astronomy Observatory, which is about 350km NW of Geralton on the Western Australian coast ... read desert. I met him through the Sydney Audio Club and he is obviously a very smart boy. Anyway he has already built a few pairs of the LXminis (and a pair of the LX521s) and is currently building a pair of subs to go with the LXminis, the design of which have apparently been sanctioned by Mr Linkwitz so as to ensure they compliment the minis, and they will be ready for a listening session on Saturday morning. The thing about the LXminis that really impresses me is the incredibly hostile environment I heard them in and they sounded sublime. This is achieved by fixing a heavily damped cylinder behind a full range (above 700Hz) dipole speaker so the radiation from behind the speaker is attenuated or scattered and diffused in order to minimize the influence of any large reflecting surfaces behind. You can read about the design philosophy here but the technical discussion is pretty much beyond me. LXmini design All the best, Ajax Link to comment
Ajax Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Ajax, that's awesome. The problem for me as well as many others who I'm in touch with off the boards is that it's still not a real speaker company and there is no true warrantee. As great as the DIY kits and builders may be, they are not full time speaker makers and can't compete with real speaker companies. I've been around the DIY community since the 70's. Heck, I built Heathkit projects, home made speakers, Hafler amps and I've modified Moscode's amp that I owned. I recently built my own ultrasonic LP cleaner. I respect these folks and feel that many are wonderful designs that if brought to market, would need a few tweeks to really compete with similarly priced products. I haven't heard your speakers, so I can't say anything about them, but personally (and I know many others who feel the same) that they would much rather have a pair of Vandersteen 2's or Focals or others than a DIY kit, which it is regardless of who is putting them together. Again, no knock and I'm happy that you love your speakers as you should. If I ever have a chance to listen to a pair, I'll certainly remember this thread and go in with a real positive approach. Pete Hi Pete, Initially I was more drawn to the fact that the LXminis are active speakers (until I heard them) and how the miniDSP is being used to provide the active crossover. My initial plan was to use the miniDSP and bypass the passive crossover in my two way ATC SCM19 speakers - I may still do this and add a pair of subs. I have several power amps available including a Nord Hypex 200watt amp for the woofers (or subs) and an old Yamaha integrated amp that I bought from a secondhand store to drive the tweeters. I have never understood the logic of placing the power amp BEFORE the crossover and now that digital crossovers are available it makes even more sense to me to take advantage of the technology. Basically I am just playing around with ideas as I am about to substantially renovate my house and I'm looking at all sorts of options including how I will treat my music room, which Jud has been helping with in a previous post. Its fun and I'm learning a lot. LOUNGE: Mac Mini - Audirvana - Devialet 200 - ATOHM GT1 Speakers OFFICE : Mac Mini - Audirvana - Benchmark DAC1HDR - ADAM A7 Active Monitors TRAVEL : MacBook Air - Dragonfly V1.2 DAC - Sennheiser HD 650 BEACH : iPhone 6 - HRT iStreamer DAC - Akimate Micro + powered speakers Link to comment
Shanepj Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 My Epos ES22. Every time I change something with my system they become more revealing. The most surprising I've speakers I've ever heard are Amphion, I know some cost over £2k price, but even the ones underneath are outstandingly musical. There at the Bristol show this year, room 404 for anyone who wants a listen. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile Link to comment
ctsooner Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Ajax, that's awesome and what this is all about. One thing to keep in mind as you go forward is listening. I mean really listening to what you love. There is audiophile and then there is loving music and then loving both. I fall into the both category, but many don't. They may think they do, but they don't. That's awesome too. Great to have passions. I've personally found that every digital crossover I've heard taints the music a bit. One of the best digital cross overs I've heard is the Lindeman which is also used in the Mac gear. I've heard it run both ways with Wilson Alexa's, B&W 801 mk3 Diamond and also with Vandersteen 5CT's. To me they helped greatly with the normal 50hz room excitement. It tamed the highs on the Wilson's and that helped, but it also killed (for me) the excitement of the music. It truncated the sound stage and when they used it to make it 'bigger', it sounded digital to say the least. The pre and post percussive hits of the drums were shortened just enough as to make me not enjoy the music as much since I knew how the speakers all should have sounded. I even discussed this with three different sales people who loved the device and knew how to use it fully. When I pointed these things out and discussed how they should have fixed the acoustics of the room first, they laughed and asked why. I said because then they wouldn't need to spend so much money on another device and process the signal and hurt the sound. Simple quilts on the walls where the first reflection is or a nice plant (real or fake) on the side of the speaker to break things up a bit. I understand where they are coming from as I understand why many folks purchase these products. I try not to be a snob in audio, but I also know how revealing my own system is and how I got here. I know that I used to use a DBS unit back in college (I'm 57 and most don't even know what I just said, lol). It's fun to manipulate sound and try to make it the best it can be. Sometimes the most simple way is the best. You seem to have really good speakers in the ATC's. I haven't heard them in a few years, but from what I remember they are a really nice speaker and fairly easy to drive as long as you have a high current amp. Link to comment
bubba Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Paradigm Active 40. Great active 3 way bookshelf speaker ahead of its time that didn't sell, cuz, well, it was active. I loved a pair for over 10 years. Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile Link to comment
esldude Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I see revel f206 locally for $2K...i wonder how they compare to the f36 you speak so highly of? They should be better. They cost more initially. A couple steps up the Revel speaker line vs the F12s I have in my video system. Revel Performa3 F206 and M106 Loudspeakers | The Absolute Sound And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
MikeJazz Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 maggies did nothing for me, even in a highend showroom..i don't get it either. they sounded nice, but not nearly as dynamic as the b&w 800 series...i don't get what all the hoopla is with either maggies or vandersteens. I have yet to try a few speakers though that i care to...psb imagine, revel, even golden ear....but i haven't heard anything yet i like better than b&w except for some 50K+ speakers. I also want to remember the name of some small bookshelves i heard at a ces show...i am thinking they were aerial, amphion, or something that began with an A. I also liked electrostats, but don't want amplified speakers...but they sounded great. I will continue to try more and more speakers, but nothing has toppled my b&w off yet....i am sure something will eventually. if you like B&W you could try to find the famous Signature Diamond...in used. B&W Signature Diamond Loudspeakers Reviewed Most people don't like the design. I love it! They provided an holographic presentation of a jazz piano trio. I never forgot that. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/ funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671 Link to comment
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