My Computer Builder Is Disputing Need For LPSU....

[lmitche]

Oh yeah, Seasonic just came out with a titanium model that reviews well too.

[Evo-No-Revo]

The filters I have recommended ("B" revision) have extremely low leakage.

 

Could you include a link to what you are referring to?

 

Thanks

[Evo-No-Revo]

What about an option such as this?

 

Ultra-low-noise Power Supply

[ismewor]

Remember, not all lps are build equal. And lps are much more expensive than atx.

also are you building a money no object audio machine. Or within budget? May be you can list out the spec and see if lps is what you need need or can live by a good atx.

[YashN]

The filters I have recommended ("B" revision) have extremely low leakage.

Doesn't that leakage current combine with the one from the SMPS?

[Evo-No-Revo]

As I said, I have a MicroRendu currently and will probably buy a SOtM just to see how it compares in my system. So I feel some of the need for super sweating the details are not as needed as say one year ago. But I still want to build a system that plays well through USB. I am getting the Pink Faun I2S card to send a signal straight to the I2S input on my PS Audio DirectStream DAC....just for fun!

 

I have a Uptone JS-2 to run the MicroRendu or smS-200 or PF I2S card or SOTM USB card.

 

Here are the specs for the build. I am building an attached storage system as well. I don't want a NAS.

I will be running Roon, HQP on MicroRendu or smS-200 and JRiver for video. I hope that my specs will be able to run HQP up to 512....but that isn't a big concern.

[Evo-No-Revo]

This doesn't have enough power I was told...

 

Ultra-low-noise Power Supply

 

I am pretty sure I will continue with the HDPLEX 400 ATX. I still don't like the long wires for the HDPLEX. I will make a custom set at some point.

 

I would like to know how to make a smpu work most effectively...That might be another thread all together.

[YashN]

This doesn't have enough power I was told...

Ultra-low-noise Power Supply

I am pretty sure I will continue with the HDPLEX 400 ATX. I still don't like the long wires for the HDPLEX. I will make a custom set at some point.

 

Yes, 50W would be way too low. You should be OK with 400+W.

 

About SMPS PSUs: if medical grade SMPS PSUs have the lowest leakage currents and noise, I wonder why we don't hear more of them applied in audiophile setups.

 

For me, I think I have mostly given up on them for audiophilia, I think Linear all the way is the way to go.

[ElviaCaprice]

I don't understand the need for such an over the top mobo for overclocking, which your obviously are not doing with that CPU? Your not planning on over sampling on this PC with that low power CPU, which I like. I don't understand a couple of things your trying to do here streaming to that DAC? Seems to me your throwing in everything but the kitchen sink and see what works?

[Evo-No-Revo]

I am currently looking at different mobo options but am really not exactly sure what I am doing. My builder isn't exactly an audiophile builder but is very competent at what he does. It isn't like he doesn't build audio computers....just not maybe to the Audiophile perfectionist.

 

Throwing in everything but the kitchen sink and see what works is sort of right but maybe not from your intended view point.

 

I don't want to be constricted in anyway. Knowing that the MicroRendu or smS-200 provide probably the best sound is one thing. But I still like to tweak with other software and options. So having everything except the kitchen sink is nothing more than having fun and not worried about the cost. I will be playing with Acourate room correction software as well.

 

I am currently trying to figure out if I there is a mobo that has Thunderbolt III option. That is because I might want to add an external GPU and other options out there such as 4K output. I am totally not up to speed on any of this.

 

I am also not for sure about the CPU. I know with the 35 watt one that heat is not going to be an issue.

I might bump up to the Intel Core i7-6700, Quad-Core 3.4 GHz, 65 watt.

 

Any suggestions are certainly appreciated! Actually this is one of the funniest parts for me.....to be learning what is out there, if I need or want it and how it all comes together as a solid system instead of a collection of random parts.

 

Not sure what you meant...Streaming to that dac? Are you referring to the I2S input on the dac via PF I2S card?

 

Thanks for any input!

[Evo-No-Revo]

To clarify:

 

MicroRendu/Roon for audio goes to PS Directstream via USB

 

If I want to play a video on the PC via JRiver I can use the I2S or USB output on PC into the PS Audio DirectStream.

 

If I want to play music via JRiver or Roon or any other software I can also use the SOTM USB output or PF I2S to the DAC.

 

Just a bunch of different options. Some might not get used but I have them available.

 

Plus throwing HQP in there as well.....

[YashN]

The GPU if NVIDIA can be used with HQ Player to offload some processing away from the CPU.

 

Other than that, 4K is amazing.

[Evo-No-Revo]

The GPU if NVIDIA can be used with HQ Player to offload some processing away from the CPU.

 

Other than that, 4K is amazing.

 

I understand the offloading with CUDA.

 

I found Miska's recommendations for his build. I see he is using

 

GIGABYTE - Motherboard - Socket 1151 - GA-Z170X-UD5 TH (rev. 1.0)

 

That gives 4K and Thunderbolt 3.

[davide256]

I am having a person that is known in the computer building world build my computer. I don't really want to name the individual.

 

But I am having him build a hot rod PC for Audio/Video playback. I am using a MicroRendu but building for USB and I2S playback as well. I will be running JRiver, Roon and HQP.

 

I have purchased one of the new HDPLEX 400W ATX Linear Power Supply. It will be delivered this week.

 

I also already have an Uptone JS 2 to run the Pink Faun I2S card and SOTM USB card.

 

This has created a bit of a stress in me as I am nothing more than a consumer of audiophile computers. I am not an engineer or IT guy.

 

Here are the comments of my computer builder:

 

"I would not use a external ATX PS, the voltage loss with the long wires will cause problems with the MB and the noise pick-up from all those wires will far outweigh and supposed noise loss from the "linear" PS."

 

"PS - Voltage loss and EMI are the laws of electronics -not opinion. I don't see any detail on the wires being used (HDPLEX 400W ATX), they would all have to be twisted and shielded and larger in size to make up for the added length."

 

 

Larry of HDPLEX response:

 

"He is correct that long wire will cause voltage loss. Some of my customers encounter this issue in the previous generation.

 

The two major upgrades for the 400w is to elimnate EMI/RFI pollution from AC grid by adding 2nd order EMI/RFI filter and adding a ELNA cap bank to compensate the potential voltage loss from the ATX cable."

 

Computer builder's response:

 

"Adding a filter to reduce the noise that having excessively long external wires causes is like placing a oil pan under a oil leak instead of eliminating the leak."

 

This is what my computer builder is recommending:

 

CORSAIR AX Series AX760 760W 80 PLUS PLATINUM Haswell Ready Full Modular ATX12V & EPS12V SLI and Crossfire Ready Power Supply-Newegg.com

 

 

I am finding it a little disturbing in finalizing my specs for the build. I don't have the knowledge to discuss this with any authority.

 

Is this an ongoing disagreement to be ignored....or something to consider? I certainly would love to not have as many boxes but I want the best possible setup as well. I always just figured the LPSU was the way to go.

 

Thanks for you input!

I think the LPS matters if you go directly USB to DAC but if you plan to use the PC as a networked fileserver it will be less important. OS choice and optimization programs like Fidelizer Pro will matter more.

[jabbr]

Ok lots of options and different ways of doing things here. Assuming you are going to use the microRendu, that means the computer you are building will run Roon and HQP and then send the music to the microRendu over the network. Its not so important to have a LPSU on your computer.

There are tradeoffs: a 400 Watt LPSU is underpowered for what could be an industrial strength build -- you are probably better off going i7-6700k along with GTX-1080 (or so) which will allow upconversion to DSD256/512. The Ethernet provides the isolation and the microRendu has its own power supply.

 

What is your DAC? Much of the approach depends.

[ismewor]

Base on your layout, you are trying to do many things at once.

however, but if for me I would have audio for a pc and video on the other pc.

 

Just usb is bad enough, I wouldn't add more noise to it such as thunderbolt and raid card.

LPS is a must if Audi is your main goal. Beside it will also improve your picture quality as well.

 

Also you can add LPS to uptone, reds or sotm and see if that improve sound quality by much.

what is VR heat sync on your hardware list?

 

A well build 400w LPS is enough for this pc and remember no pico involve I mean.

 

Hope it help.

[Evo-No-Revo]

Ok lots of options and different ways of doing things here. Assuming you are going to use the microRendu, that means the computer you are building will run Roon and HQP and then send the music to the microRendu over the network. Its not so important to have a LPSU on your computer.

There are tradeoffs: a 400 Watt LPSU is underpowered for what could be an industrial strength build -- you are probably better off going i7-6700k along with GTX-1080 (or so) which will allow upconversion to DSD256/512. The Ethernet provides the isolation and the microRendu has its own power supply.

 

What is your DAC? Much of the approach depends.

 

This is where I was originally with this build but sort of got pushed off course by different opinions...which is OK as I am really just trying to have fun here...

 

I was looking at the GTX-1080. My computer builder said I am basically building a gaming computer. Sort of sounds like sacrilege to the halls of Computer Audiophile world. But the networking of the MicroRendu has change things.

 

Also A Tech Fabrication has a new case coming out that is taller and I was told would maybe worth waiting for as it is taller and will be easier to cool with something as the i7-6700k along with GTX-1080.

 

I have a PS Audio DirectSteam DAC. But I am looking for something that can do 512...That is whole other rabbit hole!!

 

Thinking about the recently reviewd Holo Audio Spring Level 3 Kitsune Tuned Edition R2R DAC or T+A DAC 8. Not really put a lot of time into that quest yet.

 

That brings me back to wondering if I can use a SMPS?

 

Maybe something like what was suggested as the EVGA SUPERNOVA Titanium series appropriately sized for power.

 

Nikhil suggested this: AC Filter: https://www.arraysolutions.com/ac-7b

 

Bibo1 suggested this but I don't really know what it is: EMC/EMI filter by Shaffner (look for "B" version for medical application)

 

I also don't seem to listen critically as much as I use to. I am just sort of gear head to a fault maybe.....

 

I been at this since I was 13, I am 53.

[ElviaCaprice]

My 2 cents. I do video and audio on my HTPC build. There is a medium build you can achieve with a low power CPU and Mobo capable of just the functions necessary for optimum streaming. Mobo's are very capable today to achieve great video playback without a video card.

Oversampling with HQP isn't going to work with the DS DAC. It only accepts up to DSD 128. You have the wrong DAC for this over powered implementation. Plus, how you going to do video with HQP. Your not. Stick to JRiver, that is what I do.

Not sure how to connect the DS to an HTPC, you have some reading to do here if you go this route with I2s card. Otherwise if it was me, and I was doing USB, go with the audiophile USB card and Intona powered by the LPS-1 streaming to your DS DAC.

 

If you want more info on a good mobo, with that 35W or 65W I7 cpu you suggested, I'll help. You could even do M2.

 

Here a good micro ATX board with M2 slot only $35.99 with rebate, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132871

use the HDPlex case for the build for fanless build, the H5 http://www.hd-plex.com/hdplex-h5-fanless-computer-case.html

 

or for even smaller form factor go mini itx and get similar performance,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130901

then I would add a smaller casing like so,

http://www.streacom.com/products/f7c-alpha-chassis/

without optical slot.

 

Stick with the HDPlex 400W ATX.

[rickca]

I am currently trying to figure out if I there is a mobo that has Thunderbolt III option. That is because I might want to add an external GPU and other options out there such as 4K output. I am totally not up to speed on any of this.

Several of the Gigabyte Z170X motherboards have Thunderbolt 3. I just built a new PC using the Gigabyte Z170X Ultra Gaming. It's a more recently released motherboard than the GA-Z170X-UD5 TH that Miska used. I've been very happy with it, but I haven't tried to use TB3 on it.

 

External graphics via TB3 are really just for small form factor machines that can't accommodate/cool an internal video card.

 

You don't need HDMI 2.0 for 4K on the motherboard if you're going to get an Nvidia video card that supports HDMI 2.0. You will plug your display into a port on the video card rather than a port provided by the motherboard.

[Evo-No-Revo]

My 2 cents. I do video and audio on my HTPC build. There is a medium build you can achieve with a low power CPU and Mobo capable of just the functions necessary for optimum streaming. Mobo's are very capable today to achieve great video playback without a video card.

Oversampling with HQP isn't going to work with the DS DAC. It only accepts up to DSD 128. You have the wrong DAC for this over powered implementation. Plus, how you going to do video with HQP. Your not. Stick to JRiver, that is what I do.

Not sure how to connect the DS to an HTPC, you have some reading to do here if you go this route with I2s card. Otherwise if it was me, and I was doing USB, go with the audiophile USB card and Intona powered by the LPS-1 streaming to your DS DAC.

 

If you want more info on a good mobo, with that 35W or 65W I7 cpu you suggested, I'll help. You could even do M2.

 

Here a good micro ATX board with M2 slot only $35.99 with rebate, ASUS H110M-E/M.2 LGA 1151 Intel H110 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Motherboards - Intel-Newegg.com

use the HDPlex case for the build for fanless build, the H5 HDPLEX H5 Fanless Computer Case - HDPLEX INC

 

or for even smaller form factor go mini itx and get similar performance,

MSI H110I Pro LGA 1151 Intel H110 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

then I would add a smaller casing like so,

F7C Alpha Chassis | Streacom

without optical slot.

 

Stick with the HDPlex 400W ATX.

 

Thanks for the input ElviaCaprice! I hoped the PPA Studio parts worked out for you.. I thought I recognized that name.

 

The DS DAC has an I2S input. I run a HDMI cable from the Pink Faun card to the DAC.

 

The point of the I2S originally is that I have the Microrendu connected to the only USB input on the DAC. For convience if I want to watch a movie and the USB input has the Microrendu then I don't want to have to change the cord out. If I just connect to the DAC from my PC I can use the I2S input on the DAC. It is up to 32/192 which is plenty of resolution for watching movies from JRiver.

 

If there was some way to get movie video out of JRiver to my TV and movie audio out to the Microrendu it would simplify many things but that is not possible as Jesus has consulted with JRiver and they said that is no.

 

I will get a DSD 512 capable dac at some point.

 

One of the things I specifically want is the amazing A Tech Fabrication cases. They are works of art!

[Evo-No-Revo]

what is VR heat sync on your hardware list?

 

It is a custom made voltage regulator heat sync. I told them to HeatSync my whole system with their proprietary HeatSync options.

 

 

By the way, I am going to flail around looking at different options. Silly stuff to more main stream. Then after a period of dreaming, learning and asking I will come down to a system that is optimal for me and my situation. This will be the central hub to our home entertainment. I really don't want two different PCs....one for audio and one for video.

 

I just don't care that much anymore. I want great sound, cool looks and lots of ways to tweak on the system. I bought an Aurender N10. Sounded awesome but I missed playing with the virtual knobs... I got bored fast. I bet I sold it in two months.

 

Sometimes it really isn't all about the music.

 

Thanks to a great community for the help. There really is a lot of good information so far in this thread that I find useful.

[Evo-No-Revo]

External graphics via TB3 are really just for small form factor machines that can't accommodate/cool an internal video card.

 

I just figured that out earlier today.

 

Thanks for the ideas.

[jabbr]

This is where I was originally with this build but sort of got pushed off course by different opinions...which is OK as I am really just trying to have fun here...

 

I was looking at the GTX-1080. My computer builder said I am basically building a gaming computer. Sort of sounds like sacrilege to the halls of Computer Audiophile world. But the networking of the MicroRendu has change things.

 

Also A Tech Fabrication has a new case coming out that is taller and I was told would maybe worth waiting for as it is taller and will be easier to cool with something as the i7-6700k along with GTX-1080.

 

I have a PS Audio DirectSteam DAC. But I am looking for something that can do 512...That is whole other rabbit hole!!

 

Thinking about the recently reviewd Holo Audio Spring Level 3 Kitsune Tuned Edition R2R DAC or T+A DAC 8. Not really put a lot of time into that quest yet.

 

That brings me back to wondering if I can use a SMPS?

 

Maybe something like what was suggested as the EVGA SUPERNOVA Titanium series appropriately sized for power.

 

Nikhil suggested this: AC Filter: https://www.arraysolutions.com/ac-7b

 

Bibo1 suggested this but I don't really know what it is: EMC/EMI filter by Shaffner (look for "B" version for medical application)

 

I also don't seem to listen critically as much as I use to. I am just sort of gear head to a fault maybe.....

 

I been at this since I was 13, I am 53.

 

That's why I'm saying that there are several different approaches. The approach where you have a workstation or gaming class computer which runs HQP and then uses the Ethernet for isolation is the one I use. (I use the arraysolutions also as well as balanced power/tranformer isolation for my audio equipment). I go further and use fiberoptic Ethernet.

 

If you are going with the T+A DAC 8, this is a particularly good approach because people like it with DSD512 (upconversion with HQP).

 

The other approach is to sacrifice the ability to do heavy duty processing (DSD upconversion/room correction etc) but instead connect the PC directly to the DAC. Now since your PS Audio DirectStream does its own DSD upconversion, this might be a reasonable approach for you.

 

The only thing that I've found is that the 4K hardware seems to be very noisy so still worthwhile to isolate with Ethernet. Let's say that I remain suspicious about the benefit of an LPSU for a computer which is isolated from the DAC by Ethernet, and for which adequate transformer power isolation is also used.

[rickca]

I get it. You've fallen in love with the case and HeatSync technology. But putting something like a GTX 1080 with 2-3 fans into something designed to be passively cooled doesn't make sense. A-Tech says their video card HeatSync is limited to 70W. A GTX 1080 has a 180W TDP, and you will need something that powerful if you want to do 4K gaming at good frame rates.

 

Gaming and HTPC requirements are just way different from each other.

[Evo-No-Revo]

I get it. You've fallen in love with the case and HeatSync technology. But putting something like a GTX 1080 with 2-3 fans into something designed to be passively cooled doesn't make sense. A-Tech says their video card HeatSync is limited to 70W. A GTX 1080 has a 180W TDP, and you will need something that powerful if you want to do 4K gaming at good frame rates.

 

Gaming and HTPC requirements are just way different from each other.

 

Yes, I completely understand that. That is why Glenn said it won't work. He said that I might want to wait until the new 8000 case comes out and it will be possible.

 

I don't care about gaming. I do like the 4K video abilities...but nothing to do with gaming. I am almost an anti-gamer.

 

That being said I am not sold on adding the GTX 1080. But upsampling to DSD512 is possibly an objective. Getting to that level of computing and staying inline with what is considered on audiophile solution is what I am trying to figure out.

 

Miska has recommended the GTX 1080 for offloading to the GPU for upsampling to DSD512. If I can get there in a less power hunger way I am all interested. He also used a smps for his computer build...

 

This thread has gone in a different direction than looking into the different opinion about LPSU and SMPS.

 

I will retreat into more research and ask some people PM what are some recommendation of getting to exactly what is needed to get the level of performance I want.

 

Thanks for all the input but it is starting to be too much...so many opinions. But I have plenty to chew on now. Thanks!