Favorite DAC - PCM

[ctsooner]

Guys, I know many are excited bout the cost of these inexpensive DAC's from China or smaller companies, but what happens when there is a problem with said DAC in a few years? Also, have you heard any of these DAC's vs a Codex or a Chord DAC? I'll meet any of you in the NYC area to go listen to a Chord or Ayre Codex and you can bring your favorite DAC. I can get Johnny at Audio Connections in Verona, NJ to set this up. I haven't asked yet, but he'd do that and have a fun time with it. We can put the DAC's in the smaller systems and then in the really expensive ones. That way folks can HEAR the differences. Just saying....would be fun to do.

[Jean]

A few weeks/months back I compared the Schiit MG and the Metrum Musette. I preferred the Schiit but I can understand why others would prefer the Metrum. Both DACs are good but different.

 

I even heard of someone who preferred the Musette over the more expensive Menuet. The Musette is a more simple design with fewer parts compared to the Menuet. From what I understood is that even though the Menuet is more "audiophile" the Musette has a certain charm to it, more musical?

 

On of the designers/owners of Schiit Audio also prefers their Gungnir Multibit over the Yggdrasil in his set. Most likely for the same reason. The Yggy is more detailed, but not everyone like that.

 

Very interesting, I will keep that in mind while trying out the Yggy. I might end up liking the gumby more!

 

More $$ doesn't always necessarily mean "better" or more "appealing" sound, that's a good mantra to live by for fans of this industry.

[Jean]

Well Jean Benchmark have just announced this week a new DAC3 with new chips that's a big upgrade over the DAC2.

 

But I have discovered this Chinese DAC and does it look good or what, also has latest ESS chips like Benchmark DAC3:

 

GUSTARD DAC-X20 Pro Super Ultimate 2 x ES9028Pro XMOS HiFi DAC 384KHz DSD DOP Decoder. Looks good and price is amazing I'm considering buying this one. You have inspired me.

Yes! I was just reading about the Benchmark DAC 3, it sounds really good on paper. But as I was reading, I kept thinking about previous comments about the sound being sterile or lacking any tone, life. I won't discount it from my testing for now, but I don't think it will be my first choice.

[manuka]

Hi all,

 

Can anyone suggest some DACs for exceptional PCM playback? Currently looking to audition some models in 2017, including Yggy, Benchmark DAC2 and Codex and curious to learn about some of the other big name DACs out there. I don't see a need for DSD playback anytime in the near future, PCM is all the sound I need 

 

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

Hi Jean, I am currently listening to a Leonard Cohen CD " Songs from a Room' on the Veracity Chrysalis Dac. I first had this in the vinyl version 30 years ago, so I know this album so well. But after 30 years of listening, it feels like I am hearing a new version- but no I am just hearing more: more subtleties in Leonard's voice and accompaniment; on the guitar the notes rise and fall with a beautiful soft decay. I like playing from cd and I can vouch that this Veracity Chrysalis Dac captures and relays the simple hidden beauty. So much previously went unheard. We had a 'Pink Floyd weekend' recently with friends and I when stepped in to the room to hear Dark Side of the Moon it stopped me in my tracks: It reveals stunning depth and details and nuances in the music and voice you didn't hear before- over again when friends come to listen to their favorites there is a common refrain plus surprised expression: " I never heard that before!" fresh and alive..this Dac surprises me constantly and it is now the standard by which I judge all musical playback. There are some reviews from customers as well as official ones on the Veracity Audio website plus the Mystra Dac was recently reviewed in HiFi choice Magazine ( November 2016) with Editor's Choice and 5 stars in every category. Pretty amazing for a tiny Uk company. https://veracityaudio.com/pages/what-people-have-said-about-gregors-dac

[simonmaggs]

Hello! I've had over 20 dacs across all price ranges. I thought I'd be forever be changing dacs. At last I have what I expect to be my last dac, the Veracity Mystra dac. The sound is better in every way from my last dac, the good Chord QBD76. Oddly the Mystra dac is the first I've had where the usb input (from my laptop) is as good as its coaxial (from my Teac VRDS transport), such that I was able to sell on my M2Tech HiFace Evo stack - it really wasn't adding anything. [Final note: I see Hifi Choice magazine have given the Mystra their 'Editor's Choice' award, concluding by stating that the dac would be selling for double or triple its price if it were being sold by a major brand. If nothing else, for me the best dacs, pound for pound, aren't made by the major brands.]

My Amplifier: Pathos Inpol 2

My Speakers: Aurum Cantus Volla

[Jean]

Hi Jean, I am currently listening to a Leonard Cohen CD " Songs from a Room' on the Veracity Chrysalis Dac. I first had this in the vinyl version 30 years ago, so I know this album so well. But after 30 years of listening, it feels like I am hearing a new version- but no I am just hearing more: more subtleties in Leonard's voice and accompaniment; on the guitar the notes rise and fall with a beautiful soft decay. I like playing from cd and I can vouch that this Veracity Chrysalis Dac captures and relays the simple hidden beauty. So much previously went unheard. We had a 'Pink Floyd weekend' recently with friends and I when stepped in to the room to hear Dark Side of the Moon it stopped me in my tracks: It reveals stunning depth and details and nuances in the music and voice you didn't hear before- over again when friends come to listen to their favorites there is a common refrain plus surprised expression: " I never heard that before!" fresh and alive..this Dac surprises me constantly and it is now the standard by which I judge all musical playback. There are some reviews from customers as well as official ones on the Veracity Audio website plus the Mystra Dac was recently reviewed in HiFi choice Magazine ( November 2016) with Editor's Choice and 5 stars in every category. Pretty amazing for a tiny Uk company. https://veracityaudio.com/pages/what-people-have-said-about-gregors-dac

Thank you for sharing, Veracity looks like a company that deserves attention, I will keep an eye out for an opportunity to test out their DACs. It is nice to see a DAC advertised more for musicality than objective accuracy.

 

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[plissken]

Bel Canto

 

I had the $2400 Bel Canto 2.7 and the $499 Emotiva Stealth DC-1. They were both great sounding DAC's and the Emotiva did it for $1900 less.

[johndoe21ro]

Talking about cheap chinese DACs with excellent value:

Ao Lai Er Science and Technology Development Co.,ltd

 

[ShawnC]

I had the $2400 Bel Canto 2.7 and the $499 Emotiva Stealth DC-1. They were both great sounding DAC's and the Emotiva did it for $1900 less.

A friend of mine has the stealth and it sounds great in his desk top system. I borrowed it about a year ago and compared it with my Peachtree Dacit. I thought they were very close in sound but preferred the Dacdit, maybe because I was familiar with the sound. Then when I decided to up grade, I brought my Dacit to the dealers and compared it to all DAC's they had including Audio Research's DAC 8. There was a very noticable difference between the Bel Canto and Peachtree. So after trying several DAC companies I settled on Bel Canto. Given that I could tell a difference with between Peachtree and Bel Canto, I would have never considered the Stealth, since I thought thePeachtree Dacit was better then the Stealth.

 

I do love Emotiva's products and prices. I have a couple of there amps and I'm considering there Pre/Pro for my home theater room. They do have a history of bugs in there products, so I'm hesitant to purchase anything beyond there amplifiers.

[plissken]

A friend of mine has the stealth and it sounds great in his desk top system. I borrowed it about a year ago and compared it with my Peachtree Dacit.

 

That's funny. I didn't care for the Peachtree when we had in system at a get together.

[trappy]

It's an acquired taste: you have to like a bit of honkiness. Like the horn loaded tweeter of the DAC world. I find it endearing, but I could easily see why others wouldn't.

[tapatrick]

Thanks for your input, this is exactly the kind of guidance I was looking for. I actually just found darko's review earlier this week and it piqued my interest.

 

La Voce definitely sounds like a top contender for what I'm looking to get out of a DAC.

 

Hi Jean

 

Wanted to add that I just purchased an Uptone LPS1 and am using it with a DIY split USB cable to power the 5v into my La Voce Dac. Took an already great sound into sublime territory... All the great new threads on clean power are invaluable and are equivalent to spending £1000s on equipment. Looks like you are going to end up with a top Dac from all the input here.

 

Patrick.

 

 

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[audio.bill]

Talking about cheap chinese DACs with excellent value:

Ao Lai Er Science and Technology Development Co.,ltd

I have no experience with this DAC, but their claim that the AK4495SEQ is the latest flagship from AKM is not currently true (maybe it was when this DAC was first introduced.) The AKM 4490 and latest TOTL 4497 DACs are both newer and higher in performance, the 4495 series was announced in 2013/2014.

[Jean]

Hi Jean

 

Wanted to add that I just purchased an Uptone LPS1 and am using it with a DIY split USB cable to power the 5v into my La Voce Dac. Took an already great sound into sublime territory... All the great new threads on clean power are invaluable and are equivalent to spending £1000s on equipment. Looks like you are going to end up with a top Dac from all the input here.

 

Patrick.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

To me, the impact of clean power is one of the most exciting areas of our hobby. I feel like we are just beginning to scratch the surface in terms of what tweaks will improve performance the most. Hopefully, the industry will catch on in the near future. It seems like Intona and others are beginnning to tap into that market.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not tech savy enough to build myself a USB cable. Do you have any experience using cables from specialized cable makers like Curious? First one that came into mind, no preference here

[Jean]

I had the $2400 Bel Canto 2.7 and the $499 Emotiva Stealth DC-1. They were both great sounding DAC's and the Emotiva did it for $1900 less.

 

Wow! Very interesting, I have long read about the Stealth DC-1 performing at a level above its price level, but I don't remember seeing it compete with DAC's at level. I've had mine for 2.5 years, so I think I am pretty familiar with the sound it outputs. I wonder what differences I will hear once I embark on my DAC journey early next year.

[Jean]

john,

 

Very nice, those performance graphs are on another level. I hadn't heard of this company before, yet again, another company to be aware of, will be on the lookout for an opportunity to test this DAC.

 

Thanks!

[Jean]

A friend of mine has the stealth and it sounds great in his desk top system. I borrowed it about a year ago and compared it with my Peachtree Dacit. I thought they were very close in sound but preferred the Dacdit, maybe because I was familiar with the sound. Then when I decided to up grade, I brought my Dacit to the dealers and compared it to all DAC's they had including Audio Research's DAC 8. There was a very noticable difference between the Bel Canto and Peachtree. So after trying several DAC companies I settled on Bel Canto. Given that I could tell a difference with between Peachtree and Bel Canto, I would have never considered the Stealth, since I thought thePeachtree Dacit was better then the Stealth.

 

I do love Emotiva's products and prices. I have a couple of there amps and I'm considering there Pre/Pro for my home theater room. They do have a history of bugs in there products, so I'm hesitant to purchase anything beyond there amplifiers.

 

ShawnC,

 

Emotiva's products do perform at a level that is definitely above what you would expect at the price level, but I must admit that I feel that it is not hard to push the equipment to its limit where you get noticeable digital harshness. After all, at the price level, their gear could be considered entry level by some benchmarks. But it absolutely performs at a higher level than what you would normally get at the price you are paying and I commend them for achieving that level of performance.

[manuka]

Thank you for sharing, Veracity looks like a company that deserves attention, I will keep an eye out for an opportunity to test out their DACs. It is nice to see a DAC advertised more for musicality than objective accuracy.

 

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

That's the key I think: Veracity Chrysalis has both objective accuracy and musicality. I hear the hidden detail revealed and the warm heart in my music - also for me, perfect in streaming- and of course dsd

[tapatrick]

To me, the impact of clean power is one of the most exciting areas of our hobby. I feel like we are just beginning to scratch the surface in terms of what tweaks will improve performance the most. Hopefully, the industry will catch on in the near future. It seems like Intona and others are beginnning to tap into that market.

Unfortunately, I'm not tech savy enough to build myself a USB cable. Do you have any experience using cables from specialized cable makers like Curious? First one that came into mind, no preference here

 

Yes indeed its an exciting year for breakthroughs in digital audio. After a bit of experimenting making a few homemade cables I no longer buy expensive ones and still get all the benefits for a fraction of the cost. But understand if thats a bit of an unknown area.

 

See here for a similar kind of cable I'm using to power the USB +5V (VBUS) with LPS1: Câble adaptateur USB-B pour alimentation Jack 5.5/2.1mm Femelle - Audiophonics

or here for a high quality version:Elijah Audio - Products

 

Here is a great diy tutorial: grizzlyaudio: DIY solid core audio USB cable with linear power injection

Whether you use this or not it explains everything about powering the +5v Vbus.

[semente]

To me, the impact of clean power is one of the most exciting areas of our hobby.

 

I have listened to a few commercial CD players whose performance improved noticeably after modification/optimisation of the grounding.

 

Unfortunately most of us aren't knowledgeable enough or even willing to have our equipment modified.

 

Cables and equipment supports are an easy and non-destructive way to tune performance but in my opinion and experience the effects of such tweaks are marginal at best.

On the other hand, external power supplies are effective at improving performance.

 

R

[robocop]

But as I was reading, I kept thinking about previous comments about the sound being sterile or lacking any tone, life. I won't discount it from my testing for now, but I don't think it will be my first choice.

 

Gosh don't let one man's opinion influence you. There are way more positive reviews of the Benchmark DAC's than negative.

 

To be frank at the end of the day you need to listen to DAC's in your system to gauge the effect. You have lots of choices now which in itself can be confusing.

 

Digital DAC technology is evolving so you will never get the best because as soon as you buy it something better will come out.

[semente]

Yes! I was just reading about the Benchmark DAC 3, it sounds really good on paper. But as I was reading, I kept thinking about previous comments about the sound being sterile or lacking any tone, life. I won't discount it from my testing for now, but I don't think it will be my first choice.

 

Gosh don't let one man's opinion influence you. There are way more positive reviews of the Benchmark DAC's than negative.

 

To be frank at the end of the day you need to listen to DAC's in your system to gauge the effect. You have lots of choices now which in itself can be confusing.

 

Digital DAC technology is evolving so you will never get the best because as soon as you buy it something better will come out.

What does "sterile" or "lacking any tone" really mean?

 

Does it mean that the DAC 3 doesn't have any "own sound", that it doesn't "colour" the signal?

 

I can understand that some people might enjoy a more "contaminated" sound but in the end it's a very personal call...

 

 

I agree with @robocop, it doesn't make sense to be influenced by opinions, whether they come from end users or from "professional" critics.

 

 

R

[Juanjo]

I can suggest Bryston BDA series, if you don't need DSD and have a resolving system. You can pick an used BDA-1 under $1,000 and listen all the effects and an accurate tone for your PCM tracks.

 

 

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[4est]

I cannot speak for others, but I used one in my HT for a couple of years. It had great dynamics, but white washed/bleached everything with the same distinct coloration. It was obvious in my main stereo, but worked for alright for HT. You might not "understand", but that's what I, and many others experienced.

 

As to reviewers and critics, they can be quite useful once you begin to understand the different personalities. Read their past writings and if your experience aligns with theirs on those items, or not, then you can use the "reviews" keeping that in mind. Not hard science, but better than poking in the dark!

 

What does "sterile" or "lacking any tone" really mean?

 

Does it mean that the DAC 3 doesn't have any "own sound", that it doesn't "colour" the signal?

 

I can understand that some people might enjoy a more "contaminated" sound but in the end it's a very personal call...

 

 

I agree with @robocop, it doesn't make sense to be influenced by opinions, whether they come from end users or from "professional" critics.

 

 

R

[westelk]

About a week ago, I had 3 dacs on demo, Chord 2Qute, Chord Hugo TT and Ayre Codex. Below are my impressions of each.

First, at a current price of $1500, the 2Qute is the bargain of the bunch; it runs cool, has USB, coax and optical inputs and presents a detailed but non irritating sound. You can listen for extended periods without fatigue. It offers a large soundstage with good separation of instruments and a sense of the venue. My only real gripe about it are the annoying lights, but they could be covered with tape or something. I am setting up a mixed Home theater/2 channel stereo setup and the 2Qute would cast it's lights on the screen if left on the top of the component table.

The Codex sounds extremely similar, if not exactly like the 2Qute. I was hard pressed to detect any difference. I tried the Codex with XLR and RCA interconnects (Cardas Clear Light for both) but they sounded the same to me. The main gripe about the Codex is that it runs VERY hot. The Codex was new and not broken in but the 2Qute was a floor demo unit with some run time on it. It would likely take a more extended listen of one then switching to the other to see if the previous was missed or not. A tie here.

Last was the Hugo TT; at well over $4000, this seems to be an immature product. For this price you would expect perfection in every way from a component of this type. First, it has a line-out mode where it is intended to be used with an external preamp instead of using the built in volume control. This is a joke, all this mode does is set the volume to max, on ALL outputs including the headphone out. The internal volume control is still active in line-out mode! To me this is a major fail. I'm sure you can imagine the kinds of problems this potentially presents. The second issue was that the remote volume control for my amp would change the input on the Hugo TT every time the amps volume was adjusted, very aggravating. Finally, the remote for the Hugo TT is one of the worst I've ever seen. All the buttons are small, recessed, close together and not really intuitively laid out. Reading glasses were needed to use the remote. The construction quality was ok, just poorly designed, poorly implemented.

How about the sound? The Hugo TT had a similar sound to the others but did a better job fleshing out the location of instruments in the soundstage and female voices sounded better than the other 2. Voices sounded like they were more precisely located and were....hmm, I'm struggling to find the right description here, I'll use "tighter". The sound of Diana Krall just appeared to be focused and "right there" with the Hugo TT while with the other two, less so. Also noticed was slightly tighter bass with the HugoTT. All 3 presented music against a black, noise free background but sonically, the Hugo TT was the winner.

Please keep in mind that these differences are not huge. I came into the test with a bias toward the HugoTT and wanted to buy it, but in the end I decided that the HugoTT was not worth nearly 3 times the cost of the 2 Qute, especially with the issues mentioned. Chord needs to go back to the drawing board on the HugoTT, but leave the sound alone.

I did try comparing the volume control of the HugoTT vs the one in my Integrated amp. I couldn't detect any difference but perhaps with more extended listening some difference could be found. As for the headphone output on the HugoTT, only inexpensive in-ears (~$100) were tried and it was awful, un-listenable. But, this may be more of a problem with the in-ears than the HugoTT. I'm not a headphone guy.

 

equipment was as follows:

Source-Aurender N100 and custom built music PC (Aurender is better, but more mods can be made to PC)

USB Cable- Belkin Gold into Uptone Regen into short usb that came with Regen

Interconnects- Cardas Clear Light (rca and xlr)

Amp - Octave Audio V-110SE (Integrated) with Super Black box (amazingly good!)

Speaker cables- Shunyata zitron Cobra (good stuff, might buy these)

Speakers- KEF LS50 (nothing better anywhere near the price)

The speakers that will eventually go with this setup is Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grands, but I was unable to get them setup for this dac test.

I did not yet purchase a DAC. I still want to hear the Mytek Brooklyn because I'm interested in trying MQA after hearing demos of it at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest this year. I'm also interested in the Schiit products and others. If there is anyone in the Denver area that would be willing to let me hear some other dacs I would greatly appreciate it. PM me.

I hope this helps someone.

best regards

ps, my room is highly flawed. I do have some acoustic treatments and will add more, but the room was affecting the sound and my impressions may change in the future after more treatment and eq are applied.