The End of America?

[lucretius]

If I were a Canadian, I would worry more about all those Hollywood "stars" crashing your border!!

Well, you get to keep Chachi and Willie Robertson.

[plissken]

True. He did say the mayor of London (Sadiq Khan) would be welcome.

 

I *think* there is a whole mismash of items going into the immigrants of Muslim faith with regards to Trump. I'm hazarding a guess of one brush to paint everything with his world view.

 

I'm left with trying to make sense of my world and the world at large.

 

I'm seeing the issues that France, Germany, Switzerland, England, Netherlands, Norway are all having with the recent influx of refugees. And yes they are having some significant cultural problems in this regard. You have the whole kerfulful in Germany this past new years, you've had issues with Sharia Patrols in London, You have grotto's in Norway were Norwegians are likely to be harassed if they are female.

 

Montreal is having it's own issues.

 

These all come down to, I guess, a lack of integration or willingness to assume some assimilation to Western norms. I'm not sure you can make an inference on this and not appear bigoted. I'm not even sure how to have a conversation about it and not have it turn into a mess.

 

As a personal story I was at the mall with my wife and bumped into a person of the Muslim faith that I had met a few times before. His Wife all covered up and walking 3 feet behind.

 

My wife did the Western thing and extended a hand shake/nice to meet you and the smile immediately disappeared and he made the universal no thanks hand waving motion. I was immediately put off.

[PopPop]

It took me quite a long time to perfect an acceptable greeting when I was in Japan 50 years ago.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[crenca]

I think this sums it up for me (From the NYT editorial):

 

The unexpected turn in the election tallies immediately raised questions about the value of modern polling: Can it accurately capture public opinion when so many people are now so hard to reach on their unlisted cellphones?

 

And...

 

And that’s why the problem that surfaced on Tuesday night was much bigger than polling. It was clear that something was fundamentally broken in journalism, which has been unable to keep up with the anti-establishment mood that is turning the world upside down.

 

Hey, every once in a while even the NYT "gets it". While I did not vote for either of these two candidates (and I live in a solid blue state so my vote did not count anyways) I would have voted for Trump a 100 times over before I would have voted for Hillary. I happened to wake up in the middle of the night, and after picking my jaw off the floor at the results I watched Trumps victory speech live - it was almost perfect: very modest, generous, in that he mentioned 3 simple things he and "movement" will do (invest in inner city america, create a real support system for veterans, and work with other countries).

 

The cosmopolitan, left wing, globalist elites who OWN the media, universities, corporate board rooms, and government have once again been surprised that "the people" did not want to go along with the self serving agenda and fundamentalistic moralism - truly, only the most hard core protestant fundamentalism can rival their (self serving) righteousness and moral do-goodism. They really can not understand why "average people" will not go along with them. It is going to be simply delicious watching the their wailing and gnashing of teeth for the next year or so.

 

Yes indeed, something is fundamentally broken in journalism (and in the universities, and the corporate board rooms, and government institutions)...

[plissken]

Van Jones and his comment about 'Whitelash' is pretty reprehensible. That comment is the epitome of what the current journalistic culture doesn't 'get'.

 

I did vote in this election and I didn't vote for Trump. I'm the classically educated one in my family and the rest are blue collar. They don't see anyone in the government watching out for them. It's not a view point without a semblance of truth to it.

 

What I can't get through to them is the new norm is life long learning. You are on the hamster wheel of that till you retire if you want to do so comfortably.

[semente]

Another song that ironizes on the fears that lead Trump to power and the UK to Brexit...

 

 

Radiohead "Burn The Witch"

 

Stay in the shadows

Cheer at the gallows

This is a round up

This is a low flying panic attack

Sing a song on the jukebox that goes

Burn the witch

Burn the witch

We know where you live

Red crosses on wooden doors

And if you float you burn

Loose talk around tables

Abandon all reason

Avoid all eye contact

Do not react

Shoot the messengers

This is a low flying panic attack

Sing the song of sixpence that goes

Burn the witch

Burn the witch

We know where you live

We know where you live

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is good. Adam Carolla predicting a 2016 Trump presidency in March 2008.

 

https://m.soundcloud.com/shabamnuggets/adam-carolla-radio-show-ft-teresa-strasser-03-03-2008-trump-as-president

[semente]

My wife did the Western thing and extended a hand shake/nice to meet you and the smile immediately disappeared and he made the universal no thanks hand waving motion. I was immediately put off.

It takes a bit of effort not to be put off but that is what acceptance is all about.

 

R

[PopPop]

Van Jones and his comment about 'Whitelash' is pretty reprehensible. That comment is the epitome of what the current journalistic culture doesn't 'get'.

 

I did vote in this election and I didn't vote for Trump. I'm the classically educated one in my family and the rest are blue collar. They don't see anyone in the government watching out for them. It's not a view point without a semblance of truth to it.

 

What I can't get through to them is the new norm is life long learning. You are on the hamster wheel of that till you retire if you want to do so comfortably.

 

The harder you work, the luckier you get.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[rodrigaj]

Comments from the pundits that are interesting:

 

The last time this happened was in 1828 with Andrew Jackson.

 

Starbucks vs Budweiser. Budweiser won.

 

All of the union bosses voted for Clinton. The shop floor workers voted for Trump.

[christopher3393]

Michael Moore called the election correctly, and more specifically, pointed out that Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania would put him over the top. Cleary he has much more insight than most of the pollsters (admittedly this is his home turf). Whether you like him or despise him, it is a quite interesting read:

 

5 Reasons Why Trump Will Win | MICHAEL MOORE

 

"5. The Jesse Ventura Effect": Thanks. First time I laughed today. And it was an interesting read.

[Snowmonkey]

I *think* there is a whole mismash of items going into the immigrants of Muslim faith with regards to Trump. I'm hazarding a guess of one brush to paint everything with his world view.

 

I'm left with trying to make sense of my world and the world at large.

 

I'm seeing the issues that France, Germany, Switzerland, England, Netherlands, Norway are all having with the recent influx of refugees. And yes they are having some significant cultural problems in this regard. You have the whole kerfulful in Germany this past new years, you've had issues with Sharia Patrols in London, You have grotto's in Norway were Norwegians are likely to be harassed if they are female.

 

Montreal is having it's own issues.

 

These all come down to, I guess, a lack of integration or willingness to assume some assimilation to Western norms. I'm not sure you can make an inference on this and not appear bigoted. I'm not even sure how to have a conversation about it and not have it turn into a mess.

 

As a personal story I was at the mall with my wife and bumped into a person of the Muslim faith that I had met a few times before. His Wife all covered up and walking 3 feet behind.

 

My wife did the Western thing and extended a hand shake/nice to meet you and the smile immediately disappeared and he made the universal no thanks hand waving motion. I was immediately put off.

There's a big difference between a man observing the Islamic custom of not making physical contact with a woman not from his own family and gangs of young males harassing innocent women in the streets of European cities under the pretext of Islam.

[sdolezalek]

What I can't get through to them is the new norm is life long learning. You are on the hamster wheel of that till you retire if you want to do so comfortably.

 

Exactly! What most Americans (and Europeans) fail to grasp is that the proliferation of computers, cell phones and Internet information have allowed the rest of the world to become much more competitive. Isolationism can provide some protection, but all the cheap TVs and other stuff you buy at WalMart is going to get massively more expensive if manufactured here. The choice really does come down to work harder and smarter and longer to just maintain the status quo or keep doing what you have been and watch your lifestyle decline. It is a choice no one wants to face, so its easier to pretend that changing out the leadership will get us a different result.

 

History suggests neither party can effect that kind of change. Usually people end up going to war, realizing just how bad, bad can be and then happlity return to a status quo that is about where they started. As someone once famously said (and since I can't remember who, I fit the description): "Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it."

[mansr]

The harder you work, the luckier you get.

 

Arbeit macht frei?

[semente]

There's a big difference between a man observing the Islamic custom of not making physical contact with a woman not from his own family and gangs of young males harassing innocent women in the streets of European cities under the pretext of Islam.

 

Did they harass young women under the pretext of Islam, or are you just saying that because they come from an Islamic country?

 

R

[NOMBEDES]

As a personal story I was at the mall with my wife and bumped into a person of the Muslim faith that I had met a few times before. His Wife all covered up and walking 3 feet behind. My wife did the Western thing and extended a hand shake/nice to meet you and the smile immediately disappeared and he made the universal no thanks hand waving motion. I was immediately put off. (edit)

 

Understandable that you were put off, but many conservative societies have strange (to us) customs. I have lived in Germany, Japan, Panama, and Iraq. I am sure that I looked / and acted strange to many of my foreign friends. You just learn to roll with it and be interested in the local culture. I have not done much research, but here in the US my Irish ancestors were accused of a lack of integration or a willingness to assimilate. "Irish need not apply" was posted on many a door in the US. It does take a few generations to join the melting pot, maybe Islamic peoples will take longer than the Italians or the Irish, but I do believe they will assimilate.

[PopPop]

Arbeit macht frei?

 

You are a twisted individual, sir. [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[mansr]

You are a twisted individual, sir. [emoji6]

 

I'll take that as a compliment.

[plissken]

It takes a bit of effort not to be put off but that is what acceptance is all about.

 

R

 

Actually it's not though. I do not have to be accepting of people that don't. We weren't asking for an orgy. It was simply a rebuffed, social, cultural norm, all based on someones gender.

 

It's called misogyny.

[mordante]

 

The cosmopolitan, left wing, globalist elites who OWN the media, universities, corporate board rooms, and government have once again been surprised that "the people" did not want to go along with the self serving agenda and fundamentalistic moralism - truly, only the most hard core protestant fundamentalism can rival their (self serving) righteousness and moral do-goodism. They really can not understand why "average people" will not go along with them. It is going to be simply delicious watching the their wailing and gnashing of teeth for the next year or so.

 

Yes indeed, something is fundamentally broken in journalism (and in the universities, and the corporate board rooms, and government institutions)...

 

My income is about avg for the Netherlands. Never went to university. But I still am a "left wing globalist". Since I can see no other option.

[ajay556]

I agree, some big losers were the "news" media and pollsters. I don't know how many times over the last several months, I looked at the New York Times section that said Hillary's chance of winning was between 80-90%. Heck, even 538, who predicted all 51 "states" in the last election, got many wrong this time.

 

I frequently tell my friends that the President doesn't have too much power in our democracy. It's designed this way. And, not much will change between now and the next election, that's directly related to the President. Sure, the President appoints judges and can enter or remove us from partnerships, but Congress is where the real power is located. I said this for the last several elections and I think it still holds up.

 

Without a dictator who is in office for decades, the US will never be doomed because of a single President. Life is a very long journey, not a sprint. We select a captain to steer the ship every four years. Some of us will be happy with the direction it's steered while others will suggest a different course. Four or eight years is a blink of the eye in the long run.

 

Well put Chris...i agree with your statement.

[semente]

Actually it's not though. I do not have to be accepting of people that don't. We weren't asking for an orgy. It was simply a rebuffed, social, cultural norm, all based on someones gender.

 

It's called misogyny.

 

Acceptance is offered, not traded.

 

I understand your point of view, and also feel somewhat disturbed by some cultural habits different from mine but the first step towards peaceful coexistence comes from accepting.

Urban democratic Euro-Americans have evolved into very sociable, understanding people reasonably free from preconceptions and from castrating (bad) cultural or religious habits.

We are freer in that sense; shouldn't we be the ones making the effort?

 

 

The Arab world, once a flourishing Civilisation, is currently going through the equivalent of what in Europe were the Medieval Dark Ages.

Just because we've come a long way in many respects from those sad days doesn't mean that all peoples throughout the globe have too...

 

R

[plissken]

There's a big difference between a man observing the Islamic custom of not making physical contact with a woman not from his own family and gangs of young males harassing innocent women in the streets of European cities under the pretext of Islam.

 

You see it as differences, I see it as cultural norming that presents symptoms of an overall integration problem. It's a bunch of things added together.

 

Astrophysicist Neil Degrasse Tyson makes a very cohesive point:

 

 

To encapsulate for the tl;dw crowd:

 

Out of the categories of biomed/chemistry/physics/econ only 3 out of 609 total in the past 100+ years.

 

Out of the peace recipients 2 women and one survived an attempted murder post fact.

[Priaptor]

Just got finished scanning some of the comments since my last post. Some are pretty despicable BUT I guess that some of you just can't help yourselves AND obvious never engaged in athletics.

[plissken]

 

Understandable that you were put off, but many conservative societies have strange (to us) customs. I have lived in Germany, Japan, Panama, and Iraq. I am sure that I looked / and acted strange to many of my foreign friends. You just learn to roll with it and be interested in the local culture. I have not done much research, but here in the US my Irish ancestors were accused of a lack of integration or a willingness to assimilate. "Irish need not apply" was posted on many a door in the US. It does take a few generations to join the melting pot, maybe Islamic peoples will take longer than the Italians or the Irish, but I do believe they will assimilate.

 

It's not really that hard to figure out that when in Japan you bow as a form of respect. I know as I lived there. I was sensitive enough to learn the norms there and accommodate and not expect accommodation.

 

But I guess that's just me.

 

Again I'm simply using this to see Trumps potential view point on the manner. If people are wondering why these are just examples. It's nothing that I'm making up.

 

I was put off but that is about it. Just sharing an experience. If I was at a mall in Jordan or the UAE I wouldn't have batted an eyelash.