iFi Audio Micro iDSD Black Label (released on the 30th of November 2016)

[asdf1000]

Hi all, does the Audioquest Jitterbug female end nicely into the iDSD's male USB port?

 

I'm thinking of using a jitterbug directly between an iDSD and REGEN. Not for it's jitter reducing stuff but because the jitterbug looks much better built (circuit board) than the cheap type A male-to-female adapters out there.

 

Cheers! 

 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi all, does the Audioquest Jitterbug female end nicely into the iDSD's male USB port?

 

I'm thinking of using a jitterbug directly between an iDSD and REGEN. Not for it's jitter reducing stuff but because the jitterbug looks much better built (circuit board) than the cheap type A male-to-female adapters out there.

 

Cheers! 

 

 

Just had someone confirm on the Roon forums that the Jitterbug won't fit in the iDSD USB port. Damn. The search continues for a well built single hard adapter solution for the iDSD

[asdf1000]

This reviewer took measurements and refers to the DSD 'Extreme' analogue filter as the 'bit perfect' equivalent: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/ifi-micro-idsd-black-label-in-depth-review.833933/

 

[asdf1000]

From iFi here in 2014: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/86818268-post34.html

 

"3 Analogue Filters (for DSD)
Top of the range SACD players (SACD is DSD) do have selectable analogue filters, but most DSD capable DACs don’t have any selectable analogue filter, why?

Because for most DSD capable standalone DACs, DSD is only afterthought, hence no selectable analogue filters. However, the micro iDSD was designed ground-up as a native DSD (and native PCM) DAC, DSD is not an afterthought at all. We even name it “iDSD” :smile:

Actually, back in the nano iDSD, we already had selectable analogue filters for DSD playback.

In the micro iDSD, we are just bring this to another level and implemented 3 of them:
Ultra-wide Range
Extended Range
Standard Range

There is no “best” one, just pick the one that you like to listen to the most. To us, the most important thing is to have the freedom to have it your way, like that well known “foot long” sandwich.

Having said that, we do like the Ultra-wide Range one but this may not work for everyone, as some of the amplifiers out there don’t like this kind of ultra-wide band width and may produce an unpleasant noise (no damage will ensue)."
 

So it looks like the Extreme is the least filtered (ultrasonic noise) and Standard is the most filtered, assuming the above applies to the Black Label edition @AMR/iFi audio?

 

Of course whatever we all prefer is all that matters but I wonder why (technically) those that do DSD512 up-sampling in HQP still prefer the iDSD DSD 'standard' analogue filtering, since Ultrasonic noise filtering would be done twice in this case, by both the software and the iFi.

 

As we've all said above, there's no right or wrong. Just interested in what may be the technical reasons, that's all.

 

I guess the obvious answer is that the way the iDSD does it's DSD analogue filtering is different to HQP?

Cheers! :-)

 

[Jud]

As I noted before, once the bitstream gets through the A+ or HQP modulators, I don't know how much difference the iFi analog filters will make regarding ultrasonic noise.

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

As I noted before, once the bitstream gets through the A+ or HQP modulators, I don't know how much difference the iFi analog filters will make regarding ultrasonic noise.

 

Fair enough, makes sense to me now

[lmitche]

On 4/29/2017 at 9:45 AM, Em2016 said:

 

Hi @Jud and @lmitche

 

I've noticed that Alex and his two ISO REGEN beta testers (and Jesus from Sonore I think) all enjoy the iDSD.

 

So I'm naturally intrigued with the iDSD BL.... lol

 

Which DSD analogue filter do you guys use with your DSD512 listening? Of course there's no 'best' but I was just interested if there was a technical reason for your preference or if it comes down to listening only (or both)?

 

Cheers! Sean

 

 

 

Em2016,

 

I listen to the Black Label in the standard setting, but haven't really compared the settings since the latest round of upgrades here and should do so.  I suspect that in dsd mode these filters change the high frequency cutoff in the ultrasound range as in most DACs.  Despite being asked on several occasions, IFI doesn't seem to want to share the details, suggesting there is something proprietary here which I find hard to believe, very annoying and a rude way to treat their customers.

[lmitche]

On 4/30/2017 at 1:13 AM, Em2016 said:

 

Just had someone confirm on the Roon forums that the Jitterbug won't fit in the iDSD USB port. Damn. The search continues for a well built single hard adapter solution for the iDSD

Try this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-993-000523-USB-Dongle-Extender/dp/B008KE085U

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, lmitche said:

Try this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-993-000523-USB-Dongle-Extender/dp/B008KE085U

 

Nice. Do you know if it will fit inside the iDSD. It's not terribly expensive for me to try it anyway. SHOULD be a better build than the cheap eBay ones 

[lmitche]

51 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Nice. Do you know if it will fit inside the iDSD. It's not terribly expensive for me to try it anyway. SHOULD be a better build than the cheap eBay ones 

Yep, I have one and it fits.

[asdf1000]

Just now, lmitche said:

Yep, I have one and it fits.

 

Oh nice ! Thanks heaps. I can't see anything about USB 2.0 spec but it works fine for you with DSD512 up-sampling with no drop-outs?

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Oh nice ! Thanks heaps. I can't see anything about USB 2.0 spec but it works fine for you with DSD512 up-sampling with no drop-outs?

Yes, works fine here.

[asdf1000]

Just now, lmitche said:

Yes, works fine here.

 

Thanks again.

[asdf1000]

Are you guys all using Windows to do your DSD512 up-sampling?

 

Is MacOS to iDSD DSD512 up-sampling possible yet? I'm still going through threads and posts from 2014 ! 

 

Appreciate some help :-)

 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

Are you guys all using Windows to do your DSD512 up-sampling?

 

Is MacOS to iDSD DSD512 up-sampling possible yet? I'm still going through threads and posts from 2014 ! 

 

Appreciate some help :-)

 

 

Only potentially with a custom driver, if there (does exaSound have such a driver?).  For the iFi, no.  However, I'm limited to DSD256 just because of my old computers, and I like it a lot.    (This isn't to say DSD512 may not be better, all else being equal, but "all else" is quite a lot, so there's plenty of room to experiment.)

[Math89]

... i m runnin up to 512 DoP with mac mini i5-16go, but prefer lower upsample rate due to processor limits. Works with both jriver and audirvana too if I well remember....

[ted_b]

512 DoP in Mac?  Really?

[Jud]

3 hours ago, Math89 said:

... i m runnin up to 512 DoP with mac mini i5-16go, but prefer lower upsample rate due to processor limits. Works with both jriver and audirvana too if I well remember....

 

I would be surprised.

[Math89]

....Ooops you are 100% right, I checked my settings. Max is DSD 256 or 768kHz.... I ve not been through these settings since a long time....

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 1.05.2017 at 6:44 PM, lmitche said:

 Despite being asked on several occasions, IFI doesn't seem to want to share the details, suggesting there is something proprietary here which I find hard to believe, very annoying and a rude way to treat their customers.

 

There are some things we can divulge as seen in our products' official threads. There is a wealth of data here. But there are some things we can't share for obvious reasons. Given our propensity for giving our technical commentaries from the iEMatch to the Stereo 50 to the iDSD BL, we dont hold back on the tech. But on the odd occasion, the R&D overrides the marketing dept. 

[asdf1000]

Just got an iDSD BL with 30 day trial. My Surface Pro 4 can only handle DSD256 reliably (very reliable). 

 

Wow ! It didn't sound great right out of the box but after 1 hour of everything warming up (from freezing cold here today) it's improved quite a bit and sounds great!

 

I have it in "Extreme" mode which we've now had clarified by iFi (see my earlier posts above for iFi quotes) is the closest equivalent to the PCM 'bit perfect' mode - i.e. it's the analogue filter doing the the least 'stuff'.

 

I'm using the smooth, linear phase, 7th order CLANS filter settings in Roon.

 

Headphones are the Sennheiser HD800S.

 

Playback is very stable.

 

The Uptone LPS-1 is now clicking a lot more frequently (switching ultracap banks, very very quietly) as this is the most current it's ever had to supply I think. It's nice to finally have it do some hard work ! ;-)

 

I'm just using a cheap eBay adapter to connect to the Regen. It will do for now until I find something better built. 

 

If the iDSD improves after 400 hours like some people say, then great, if not I'm still very happy right now :-)

 

Very happy.

 

 

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

I quite like how the iDSD is USB powered.

 

Would be nice is the iDAC3 supported DSD512 and the iCAN2 were able to be powered by 5-7Vdc... I'd upgrade.

[crenca]

8 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Just got an iDSD BL with 30 day trial. My Surface Pro 4 can only handle DSD256 reliably (very reliable). 

 

Wow ! It didn't sound great right out of the box but after 1 hour of everything warming up (from freezing cold here today) it's improved quite a bit and sounds great!

 

I have it in "Extreme" mode which we've now had clarified by iFi (see my earlier posts above for iFi quotes) is the closest equivalent to the PCM 'bit perfect' mode - i.e. it's the analogue filter doing the the least 'stuff'.

 

I'm using the smooth, linear phase, 7th order CLANS filter settings in Roon.

 

Headphones are the Sennheiser HD800S.

 

Playback is very stable.

 

The Uptone LPS-1 is now clicking a lot more frequently (switching ultracap banks, very very quietly) as this is the most current it's ever had to supply I think. It's nice to finally have it do some hard work ! ;-)

 

I'm just using a cheap eBay adapter to connect to the Regen. It will do for now until I find something better built. 

 

If the iDSD improves after 400 hours like some people say, then great, if not I'm still very happy right now :-)

 

Very happy.

 

 

 

 

 

  

Just to verify, your using the iDSD BL to drive the HD800S (and not a seperate amplifier)?

[crenca]

18 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

There are some things we can divulge as seen in our products' official threads. There is a wealth of data here. But there are some things we can't share for obvious reasons. Given our propensity for giving our technical commentaries from the iEMatch to the Stereo 50 to the iDSD BL, we dont hold back on the tech. But on the odd occasion, the R&D overrides the marketing dept. 

 

Well, I sort of want to give a thumbdowns on this.  The problem is that the terms "Extreme", "Standard", etc. have not meaning in relation to audio.  If a person is using your product and is playing a DSD64 file and "Extreme" is simply a filter curve that starts at 50 khz, then he is stressing his equipment/amp by passing all the 25 khz to 50 khz noise that is endemic to DSD64.  What is proprietary about a the basics of a low pass filter?  Why would a marketing dept. be allowed to override something like that?

[Jud]

11 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Well, I sort of want to give a thumbdowns on this.  The problem is that the terms "Extreme", "Standard", etc. have not meaning in relation to audio.  If a person is using your product and is playing a DSD64 file and "Extreme" is simply a filter curve that starts at 50 khz, then he is stressing his equipment/amp by passing all the 25 khz to 50 khz noise that is endemic to DSD64.  What is proprietary about a the basics of a low pass filter?  Why would a marketing dept. be allowed to override something like that?

 

While I agree about the obscure marketing labels for the modulators and that more information would be helpful, most manufacturers and developers treat the particulars of these things as proprietary.  But don't we have measurements?  That is very likely to give us as much information as iFi will wish to provide.

 

I also doubt we have to worry overmuch about stressing equipment.  If anyone's concerned, use Standard or one of the software DSD modulators that's available.