iFi Audio Micro iDSD Black Label (released on the 30th of November 2016)

[fernandezinmecca]

Leaving the computer and DAC on are not a problem. As long as they are running signal into a preamp, you will achieve burn in. I use freq sweeps with pink noise and leave it on 24/7 as you guessed. Every few days we fire up the system and listen to how it has changed. This is a pretty standard burn in method btw.

 

It has been a while since I've posted on this. The BL was returned and the iDAC2 has been a great addition to the system. It is the best sounding iFi product in our system to date and at a much better price point. I'm thankful for the recommendations made on this string. If it wasn't for them, I may not have tried the iDAC2.

Right on, I probably should have given the iCan SE I sent back some burn in time, I missed it bad 48 hours after shipping it and stumbled on this black beauty, and it being portable...cha ching! I can hear an upgrade comparing it to my Fiio E18 (off my PC) Im listening to my go to playlist, Radiohead and well, this baby is much more organic, I also heard my first PCM 24 bit file "Looking For A Home" Keith Greeninger, on this thing and wow...we are a spoiled bunch folks!

 

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[photonblur]

iFi black sleep question........

 

Is there a light indicator when iFi iDSD BL

is in sleep mode? The green light remains

on constantly after the music is off. It

remains green even after 15 min. of no

music in usb power mode or 3 min. of no

music in battery power mode when the

dac is left on. When turned off there is

no light indicator. I'm wondering if my

Black has a problem of not transitioning

into sleep mode?

 

thanks

 

pb-

[Loplop]

iFi black sleep question........

 

Is there a light indicator when iFi iDSD BL

is in sleep mode? The green light remains

on constantly after the music is off. It

remains green even after 15 min. of no

music in usb power mode or 3 min. of no

music in battery power mode when the

dac is left on. When turned off there is

no light indicator. I'm wondering if my

Black has a problem of not transitioning

into sleep mode?

 

thanks

 

pb-

The light should be flashing green in Sleep mode (if the iDSD BL is not charging, if it is, it would be solid Blue). When you turn the iDSD off via a switch, it should start charging (assuming this is needed) and be solid Blue.

 

You might try another method of charging, like a cellphone charging brick, or another cable (try the blue one included in the box). Otherwise, contact ifi support.

 

FWIW mine doesn't have trouble transitioning into sleep mode unless the USB port is somehow keeping it active, like if you're unknowingly routing PC sound through it as an external soundcard/amp. I still very frequently have trouble with it entering charging state from sleep, though I'm not bothered enough by this behavior to send it back to get fixed.

[AMR/iFi audio]

The light should be flashing green in Sleep mode (if the iDSD BL is not charging, if it is, it would be solid Blue). When you turn the iDSD off via a switch, it should start charging (assuming this is needed) and be solid Blue.

 

You might try another method of charging, like a cellphone charging brick, or another cable (try the blue one included in the box). Otherwise, contact ifi support.

 

FWIW mine doesn't have trouble transitioning into sleep mode unless the USB port is somehow keeping it active, like if you're unknowingly routing PC sound through it as an external soundcard/amp. I still very frequently have trouble with it entering charging state from sleep, though I'm not bothered enough by this behavior to send it back to get fixed.

 

Let's feed the meaty monster again, please take a look here:

 

SmartPower®: Please feed the Meaty Monster (part 1)

 

The flashing green means it's for the best to give a device a blast of full charge.

[Loplop]

Let's feed the meaty monster again, shall we?

 

Please take a look here:

 

SmartPower®: Please feed the Meaty Monster (part 1)

That link doesn't help photonblur nor address his/her question.

[AMR/iFi audio]

iFi black sleep question........

 

Is there a light indicator when iFi iDSD BL

is in sleep mode? The green light remains

on constantly after the music is off. It

remains green even after 15 min. of no

music in usb power mode or 3 min. of no

music in battery power mode when the

dac is left on. When turned off there is

no light indicator. I'm wondering if my

Black has a problem of not transitioning

into sleep mode?

 

thanks

 

pb-

 

In sleep-mode, the LED will blink green. If the battery requires to be re-charged, said LED would then turn blue.

 

You need to make sure your iDSD micro BL has the standard (factory) firmware (5.20). If you (or someone else) has flashed 5.2B, sleep mode will be disabled.Another possibility is that for some reason the source continues to send some form of audio stream.

 

Unless you want to get the OS system audio through your iDSD micro BL, it for the best to assign the system audio to another sound device. Then the iDSD micro BL will only be used by the music playback software.

[AMR/iFi audio]

I still very frequently have trouble with it entering charging state from sleep, though I'm not bothered enough by this behavior to send it back to get fixed.

 

 

Is it possible that you in fact do not have "trouble" but no requirement to charge the battery instead ? The iDSD micro (any version) will only charge the battery in sleep mode if it needs charging. The LED will turn blue only if the battery is ACTUALLY being charged, that is significant charge current flows into the battery.Incidentally, there is nothing to fix. If your iDSD micro charges normally when it needs charging (and when turned off) it will charge in sleep mode as well, when it requires charging.

[Loplop]

Thanks for clarifying, @AMR/iFi audio .

 

Then I clearly have a defective unit, or you have a programming bug... as my unit sometimes refuses to top off to 80% once I have used it for quite some time, stopped sending a signal, and the iDSD BL has gone into standby mode. Here's my normal nightly use case:

1. plug MBP into wall outlet

2. turn on iDSD BL (not connected to MBP)

3. when iDSD BL is flashing green, plug iDSD BL into MBP with ifi's provided blue USB3 cable

4. listen to music ~2 hours

5. stop music on MBP, close MBP lid (computer goes to sleep)

6. go off and prepare for bed

7. when I return from #6, usually ~10 mins, the iDSD BL will be doing one of two things:

7a. blue light (charging)

7b. flashing green light (not charging)

 

If I see 7b, I detach the iDSD BL from MBP, switch it off, switch it on, wait until it is flashing green, and plug back into MBP. Light turns solid color, I wait 3 mins, and it then turns blue. I can confirm that once this has happened, even 1 hour later the iDSD BL is still charging, so there's no way it was at 80% when #5 above occurred. I have never, when doing this, had it enter 7b state again. I haven't kept a log of dates this has occurred, but it has happened more than a handful of times in the last month. Certainly not daily, a wild guess is 1 out of 5 times.

 

Note: I never charge to 100% (on purpose) as I have no need to. So rinse & repeat steps 1-7 above, always starting from 80% charge state.

 

So your definitive statement may be true in design theory, but in operational practice, it isn't true for my unit. In the end I should clarify for the record: the 80% top off doesn't always work on my specific iDSD BL.

 

Is it possible that you in fact do not have "trouble" but no requirement to charge the battery instead ? The iDSD micro (any version) will only charge the battery in sleep mode if it needs charging. The LED will turn blue only if the battery is ACTUALLY being charged, that is significant charge current flows into the battery.Incidentally, there is nothing to fix. If your iDSD micro charges normally when it needs charging (and when turned off) it will charge in sleep mode as well, when it requires charging.

See my prior post above. Starting with an 80% full battery (I only ever charge to the 80% state, never 100%), after 2 hours of listening the iDSD BL would require charge to get back to 80%. However once it hits sleep it does not always charge until I cycle power.

 

When the issue occurs, since it does charge from sleep (100% of the time! I have never had it not charge after a power cycle) after power cycling, my developers would say this "smells" like a software bug.

 

I am on the same firmware the unit came with, BTW, not 5.2B.

 

FWIW, this now seems to happen 30-50% of the time. I have now settled into a very standard routine with my iDSD BL feeding my Micro stack (iTube2, iCAN SE) and it's now just part of my daily routine to make sure the BL gets to charge state.

[AMR/iFi audio]

See my prior post above. Starting with an 80% full battery (I only ever charge to the 80% state, never 100%), after 2 hours of listening the iDSD BL would require charge to get back to 80%.

 

You would need to operate in battery mode (turn on iDSD before connecting) to deplete the battery. Flipping the power switch off resets the power state.

 

However once it hits sleep it does not always charge until I cycle power.

This may be because it is not battery power mode. In said state it will go into "sleep mode" after three minutes and is highly likely to charge.In USB power mode it will go into "sleep mode" after 15 minutes and will only charge if the battery has been depleted, which generally means turbo mode is engaged and the power supply from the PC is not higher than 500mA.

When the issue occurs, since it does charge from sleep (100% of the time! I have never had it not charge after a power cycle) after power cycling, my developers would say this "smells" like a software bug.

 

The charger IC determines if the Battery voltage has dropped enough since the last re-charge to the voltage limit set to require re-charge. If so, the charger IC will attempt to charge but monitors the USB Bus voltage and will not draw charge if the voltage drops too low, in this case it will instantly abort charging.

 

All these functions operate in hardware.

 

The reason why the iDSD micro in your case will always charge when turned off – is your battery is set to charge to 80% and will stay at 80%. By turning the unit off you have done a forced reset of the target charge to 100% and it will instantly attempt to charge up the battery.

 

 

With respect, the whole battery charge system is proven over the last few years in quite a lot of units and other than having sometimes problems to "wake up" a battery that has shut down (due to the large battery size), there are no problems reported. The (very limited) software and hardware do their job and do it well.

 

 

We recommend that you just let the battery management system do its job. By interfering you actually are shortening your battery lifespan.

 

 

For peace of mind, - If you wish, you can open an Support Ticket System ( http://support.ifi-audio.com) and send your unit back for us to test the battery.

[Loplop]

You would need to operate in battery mode (turn on iDSD before connecting) to deplete the battery. Flipping the power switch off resets the power state.

 

 

This may be because it is not battery power mode. In said state it will go into "sleep mode" after three minutes and is highly likely to charge.In USB power mode it will go into "sleep mode" after 15 minutes and will only charge if the battery has been depleted, which generally means turbo mode is engaged and the power supply from the PC is not higher than 500mA.

 

All of these items are implemented in hardware. This means whenever the iDSD micro goes into 'sleep mode', it will enable charging. The rest is up to the charger's IC. The charger's IC determines if the battery voltage has dropped enough since the last recharge to the voltage limit set to require it. If so, the charger's IC will attempt to charge but monitors the USB bus voltage. It will not draw charge if the voltage drops too low, in this case it will instantly abort the operation. All these functions are hardware based.There is a reason why the iDSD micro in your case will always charge when turned off - your battery is set to charge to 80% and will be at 80%. By turning the unit off you reset the target charge to 100% and it will instantly attempt to charge up the battery.With respect, the whole battery charge system is proven over two years in many units and problems other than the need to "wake up" a battery that has shut down (due to the large battery size), weren't reported. The (very limited) software and hardware do their job and do it well.It may be best you simply forget your OCD and instead just let the battery management system do its job. By interfering you actually are shortening your battery lifespan.

Please read through my steps above carefully. Step 2 is "turn on iDSD BL" when it is not connected to MBP. It is in battery mode. I never use USB power mode.

 

If I see 7b in the list of steps below, I detach the iDSD BL from the MBP, turn it off, turn it on. Once I see the green light flashing (BATTERY MODE), I re-attach it to the MBP. The light turns green, and after it hits sleep mode, it will 100% of the time start charging. It will only charge to 80% at this point.

 

If you take the time to read what I wrote carefully, I am doing EXACTLY what you suggest is "good" for the battery. It's clearly a software or hardware bug.

[crenca]

Thinking about the iDSD BL in terms of desktop use (in my computer speaker rig).

 

Question 1: Does the BL upgrades effect the RCA line out circuit, or are all the upgrades in the headphone amp circuit?

 

Question 2: What USB B to A converter is recommend (since just about all audio quality desktop USB cables expect your DAC to have a type B input)?

[crenca]

On 3/17/2017 at 11:10 AM, crenca said:

Thinking about the iDSD BL in terms of desktop use (in my computer speaker rig).

 

Question 1: Does the BL upgrades effect the RCA line out circuit, or are all the upgrades in the headphone amp circuit?

 

Question 2: What USB B to A converter is recommend (since just about all audio quality desktop USB cables expect your DAC to have a type B input)?

 bump...or perhaps I will ask on the ione thread...

[Math89]

2 hours ago, crenca said:

 bump...or perhaps I will ask on the ione thread...

I didn t tested the headphone circuit, but only the rca one. Improvement / difference is obvious compared to the 'silver' version. 

My single remark would be that, as a standalone dac, I was also impressed by the iDac2. Completed with an iusb2 or some other nice supply, in addition to a gemini cable, the result could compete and even surpass the BL, for a similar investment.

... And the IDac 2 has also a more convenient usb connector, which answers to your question n°2....

Mathieu

[Loplop]

I'm very happy with the sound quality of my iDSD BL, but thanks to this thread's suggestion I tried a iDAC2.  I found the iUSB3/iDAC2 combo to sound better than the iDSD BL when used as a source.  I'm still very happy with the Swiss army knife BL, but if I were looking for a standalone DAC only I'd choose the iDAC2, for sure.

[AMR/iFi audio]

14 hours ago, Math89 said:

I didn t tested the headphone circuit, but only the rca one. Improvement / difference is obvious compared to the 'silver' version. 

My single remark would be that, as a standalone dac, I was also impressed by the iDac2. Completed with an iusb2 or some other nice supply, in addition to a gemini cable, the result could compete and even surpass the BL, for a similar investment.

... And the IDac 2 has also a more convenient usb connector, which answers to your question n°2....

Mathieu

 

Both iDAC2 and iDSD BL were designed to meet different demands. The former is a no-compromise solution, made to be 'only' a DAC in a desktom environment. Hence sound quality is its priority. iDSD BL is a different kind of a beast, a Swiss Army knife mobile device packed with features. It is a top notch performer, yet pure sound quality wise we pushed ourselves further with iDac2. 

 

 

On 17.03.2017 at 6:10 PM, crenca said:

Thinking about the iDSD BL in terms of desktop use (in my computer speaker rig).

 

Question 1: Does the BL upgrades effect the RCA line out circuit, or are all the upgrades in the headphone amp circuit?

 

Question 2: What USB B to A converter is recommend (since just about all audio quality desktop USB cables expect your DAC to have a type B input)?

 

 

Question #1: Both xBass and 3D-Matrix are implemented in both outputs (6,3 mm and RCA out) and can be used simultaneously. But it's worth to know that iDSD BL has to be set in 'preamp mode' and not 'direct mode'. The latter has shorter signal path, it bypasses volume control and said sound effects.

 

Question #2: There are manufacturers out there who do aftermarket cables accordingly to your specific needs.  

[crenca]

3 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Both iDAC2 and iDSD BL were designed to meet different demands. The former is a no-compromise solution, made to be 'only' a DAC in a desktom environment. Hence sound quality is its priority. iDSD BL is a different kind of a beast, a Swiss Army knife mobile device packed with features. It is a top notch performer, yet pure sound quality wise we pushed ourselves further with iDac2. 

 

 

 

 

Question #1: Both xBass and 3D-Matrix are implemented in both outputs (6,3 mm and RCA out) and can be used simultaneously. But it's worth to know that iDSD BL has to be set in 'preamp mode' and not 'direct mode'. The latter has shorter signal path, it bypasses volume control and said sound effects.

 

Question #2: There are manufacturers out there who do aftermarket cables accordingly to your specific needs.  

 

 

Thanks AMR/iFi (& Math89 & Loplop), exactly the feedback I was looking for...

[asdf1000]

On 3/29/2017 at 11:13 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

 

Hi all,

I asked this question in another forum but thought the gurus here could help.

 

With the DSD analogue filters for the iDSD, which is the 'least' filtered option, extreme, extended or standard?

For PCM I understand the least filtered option is the 'bit perfect' mode which is essentially a NOS mode.

But which is the equivalent, for the 3 analogue DSD filters?

 

The manual says for measurements 'standard' is recommended for both PCM and DSD so I'm guessing that's the flattest response but obviously not 'unfiltered' because the NOS mode for PCM is 'bit perfect' not 'standard' - if any of that makes sense lol

Appreciated  

[asdf1000]

On 1/28/2017 at 2:22 PM, Jud said:

it's quite good with the right material fed to it (which IMO is music upsampled to DSD256 or DSD512

 

Hi @Jud and @lmitche

 

I've noticed that Alex and his two ISO REGEN beta testers (and Jesus from Sonore I think) all enjoy the iDSD.

 

So I'm naturally intrigued with the iDSD BL.... lol

 

Which DSD analogue filter do you guys use with your DSD512 listening? Of course there's no 'best' but I was just interested if there was a technical reason for your preference or if it comes down to listening only (or both)?

 

Cheers! Sean

 

 

 

[jhwalker]

13 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi all,

I asked this question in another forum but thought the gurus here could help.

 

With the DSD analogue filters for the iDSD, which is the 'least' filtered option, extreme, extended or standard?

For PCM I understand the least filtered option is the 'bit perfect' mode which is essentially a NOS mode.

But which is the equivalent, for the 3 analogue DSD filters?

 

The manual says for measurements 'standard' is recommended for both PCM and DSD so I'm guessing that's the flattest response but obviously not 'unfiltered' because the NOS mode for PCM is 'bit perfect' not 'standard' - if any of that makes sense lol

Appreciated  

 

DSD is different from PCM in that you absolutely must filter, or your system will be overwhelmed with rising levels of ultrasonic noise.

 

The way the iDSD is set up, the "best" setting for PCM (if you're interested in least filtering) is "bit perfect", but for DSD it's (whatever the opposite end of the switch is - don't have my iDSD in front of me).  IOW, just slide the switch to the opposite end from "bit perfect" for DSD for the most permissive / least filtering option.

 

Too bad they couldn't have set it up so that the best setting for PCM would also select the best setting for DSD. 

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

 

DSD is different from PCM in that you absolutely must filter, or your system will be overwhelmed with rising levels of ultrasonic noise.

 

The way the iDSD is set up, the "best" setting for PCM (if you're interested in least filtering) is "bit perfect", but for DSD it's (whatever the opposite end of the switch is - don't have my iDSD in front of me).  IOW, just slide the switch to the opposite end from "bit perfect" for DSD for the most permissive / least filtering option.

 

Too bad they couldn't have set it up so that the best setting for PCM would also select the best setting for DSD. 

 

Thanks John. That means 'bit perfect' for PCM and 'standard' for DSD.

 

So my next question is what is the DSD 'standard' filter actually doing? And what are the DSD 'extreme' and 'extended' filters doing, in a technical sense?

 

Thanks, Sean

[jhwalker]

4 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Thanks John. That means 'bit perfect' for PCM and 'standard' for DSD.

 

So my next question is what is the DSD 'standard' filter actually doing? And what are the DSD 'extreme' and 'extended' filters doing, in a technical sense?

 

Thanks, Sean

 

It's documented somewhere each of them is an analog filter that starts filtering at a different frequency - don't recall exactly - but "Standard" is the one just about everyone prefers.

 

Let me state differently:  "Standard" is the one I prefer (by a long shot), and most reviews I've read state the same.

[Jud]

DSD is I think different from PCM in that you're not terribly worried about filtering too steeply.  The modulators available with HQP and A+ that most folks use will likely be getting rid of nearly all the ultrasonic noise, so I'm not sure what's left for the iDSD internal modulator to clean up.

 

That said, I could easily be imagining things, but in my own listening I agree with John.

[crenca]

4 hours ago, jhwalker said:

 

DSD is different from PCM in that you absolutely must filter, or your system will be overwhelmed with rising levels of ultrasonic noise.

 

The way the iDSD is set up, the "best" setting for PCM (if you're interested in least filtering) is "bit perfect", but for DSD it's (whatever the opposite end of the switch is - don't have my iDSD in front of me).  IOW, just slide the switch to the opposite end from "bit perfect" for DSD for the most permissive / least filtering option.

 

Too bad they couldn't have set it up so that the best setting for PCM would also select the best setting for DSD. 

 

Hum, I don't think this reversal is correct (could be wrong).  I think the Extreme setting is designed for DSD > 128 (256 and above), Extended is for DSD 128 (with it's rising ultrasonic noise curve starting about 50khz or so) and Standard is for DSD64 playback with it's rising curve which is significant at about 25khz.  Not arguing that some might prefer the earlier filters on higher rate DSD.

 

Perhaps iFi can put all this straight...

[crenca]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

DSD is I think different from PCM in that you're not terribly worried about filtering too steeply.  The modulators available with HQP and A+ that most folks use will likely be getting rid of nearly all the ultrasonic noise, so I'm not sure what's left for the iDSD internal modulator to clean up.

 

That said, I could easily be imagining things, but in my own listening I agree with John.

 

Also, this has thrown me for a loop - are not the modulators (i.e. the mathematical/digital process) behind the ultrasonic noise of DSD (whether you are remodulating from PCM to DSD or going through a native ADC process directly to DSD)?  If so, then it would be the filters (in HQP, A+, or any other software/DAC) that would then attenuate the offending frequencies...do I have this backwards?

[asdf1000]

3 hours ago, crenca said:

 

Hum, I don't think this reversal is correct (could be wrong).  I think the Extreme setting is designed for DSD > 128 (256 and above), Extended is for DSD 128 (with it's rising ultrasonic noise curve starting about 50khz or so) and Standard is for DSD64 playback with it's rising curve which is significant at about 25khz.  Not arguing that some might prefer the earlier filters on higher rate DSD.

 

Perhaps iFi can put all this straight...

 

@AMR/iFi audio appreciate your help here guys ! :-)