As i always said...here is truth from the horses mouth - CD is the best digital source

[semente]

Hi Ralf, the system is set up like this:

 

CD transport: internal optical drive

FLAC source: internal 1TB SSD

DAC: Merging NADAC (8 channel) via Ravenna (i.e. RJ45 network protocol / CAT6 cable)

 

 

I don't know ... does it? For FLAC it probably does, but I am not sure about CD.

 

 

Yes, I know. And before long there will be someone telling me that I am hearing it wrong, but I assure you - I have done a blind test for my guests, and all I tell them is one is "Source A" and the other is "Source B" - which do you prefer? Nearly all can hear differences, and of the dozen or so people I have shown it to, only one prefers the FLAC. The CD seems to sound clearer.

In my opinion, real "clarity" comes from lower noise floor, or the ability to retrieve detail that is low in level.

 

But I've realised that what many people perceived as "clarity" is often an exaggeration of the upper mid and treble.

Many loudspeaker manufacturers use this effect when voicing their models, i.e. the LS50's.

 

R

[One and a half]

EVERYONE LISTEN UP!!!

Good news is check out PS AUDIO website!!!! A brand new transport has been introduced.

Paul mentions the CD has come very close to high res. I think if you burn on ULTRA DISC you probably get better than high res. I can say because i have a second master CD copy of few albums and high res is no match.

 

It makes me smile to recollect if other companies have streamed DSD coded, is it 10 or 15 years from SACD transport. Pity they didn't have USB output, with Ethernet there's a network streamer. I hope MCH fans can work with 3 HDMI output cables.

I like the idea to play any disc, that should include SACD ISO on DVD r.

Not my cup of tea , I feel there's a few things missing.

[sandyk]

In my opinion, real "clarity" comes from lower noise floor, or the ability to retrieve detail that is low in level.

 

But I've realised that what many people perceived as "clarity" is often an exaggeration of the upper mid and treble.

Many loudspeaker manufacturers use this effect when voicing their models, i.e. the LS50's.

 

R

 

Spot on !!!

Low level noise can cause that, and so apparently can certain non conforming USB 2.0 cables to some extent.

Often the cleaner file can sound a little softer and lack something, but turn the volume a little higher with good gear, and it all comes together in spades !

[witchdoctor]

The "best" digital source to me is the one for a few dollars a month I get millions of albums like with Tidal. If there is a song I can think of it is generally at my finger tips with 0 effort. Just another perspective and I find with my sound card upsampling everything to 192/24 PCM the SQ suits my taste just fine.

[Norton]

I don't see that review is any more likely true or authoritative than the presumably countless other opinions arguing the case for/against optical disc vs. file replay.

 

For my part using my Esoteric as both disc player and DAC, I generally prefer SQ playing (w/o upsampling/transcoding) files from my PC to the DAC input rather than spinning the original CD or SACD.

 

One think I am clear about though is that RBCD rips (EAC) invariably have a lighter, brighter sound than the original CD. I don't know why this is - perhaps others can explain. It does though usually give an appealing impression of more detail and airiness, whether its genuinely better, or just the digital equivalent of a steeper vinyl VTA, I couldn't say. Sometimes it goes too far, for example to me the Philips CDs of Grumiaux Mozart Violin Concertos are bright to an unlistenable degree when ripped.

 

Those who prefer the sound of CD sometimes reference a darker, more emotional, insightful, romantic presentation which does seem consistent with what I find, albeit from an opposing POV taste-wise. Having said this, I'm not sure how a less detailed rendition can ever be considered more insightful.

 

Keith_W - I've not tried with an optical drive, but both Wtfplay and Esoteric/TEAC HR player should load a CD track by track into memory, as I think should JRiver. As I recall, when used with an optical drive, the Bryston BDP2 also has an option to load a complete CD into memory before replay, so presumably MPD also offers this.

[blownsi]

Thanks for your suggestions, guys. I will compare WAV to FLAC and CD and see if it's better.

 

I'm genuinely curious of your findings. I myself can hear no difference between wav and FLAC but both sound better than the spinning disc in the same computer.

[Brian A]

A few years ago, when I more actively posted on the Computer Audiophile website, a character with ScreenName "Julf" posted a test for us all. He took a high res source file, downsampled it into various lower res formats and then upconverted them back to the original high res format (to make them all look the same). He asked us to play them to see if we could tell the difference between the various resolutions and post which one we liked best.

 

One sounded better to me and I picked it. All the rest sounded the same.

 

Well, the file I picked was the lowest res version but one where he had bumped the volume one (paltry) dB. Tricky guy that Julf.

 

What the exercise taught me was that my ears are not good enough to tell the differences between various resolutions. I pity those who hear differences in resolutions above 44/16. I remain blissfully ignorant.

[gmgraves]

It is actually from a Rossini review, they only cost 18000 pounds, lol:

 

dCS Rossini disc player and clock | The Absolute Sound

 

The reviewer in question isn't worth reading IMO..

 

Mea Culpa. You said the review you were quoting was from Hi-Fi+ in your OP, and, in fact, the latest Hi-Fi+ issue has a big review of the dCS Vivaldi 2 system. I just figured you were quoting that (I had yet to read it when I posted that, yesterday). Now I know that it wasn't that issue or that magazine that had the passage you quoted!

[Apesbrain]

What the exercise taught me was that my ears are not good enough to tell the differences between various resolutions.

Have you considered that it actually taught you how easily our ears/brain can be fooled into false conclusions?

[Ralf11]

it teaches us that the many results showing that comparisons MUST be matched for SP are still correct!

 

 

now, re: "exaggeration of the upper mid and treble" - ARC makes some great sounding stuff, don't they?

 

absolute accuracy is not always the most appealing (as many cosmetics companies have discovered)

[Brian A]

Have you considered that it actually taught you how easily our ears/brain can be fooled into false conclusions?

I have considered that, but concluded the notion is invalid.

 

Since the test was experiential and subjective, there is no such possibility of concluding incorrectly. My conclusion is valid for my reality. All I can say is that, for me, differences between the sample files did not exist. For others, they may.

 

For me, the bottom line is that even if I am “cloth eared”, I am also happy.

[semente]

now, re: "exaggeration of the upper mid and treble" - ARC makes some great sounding stuff, don't they?

 

Can't really say; last time I listened they were playing through Wilsons...

 

 

The Wilsons did sound better than when partnered with Krells, though.

 

R

[NOMBEDES]

A properly implemented PC audio set up is capable of EASILY outperforming most affordable CD or DVD players, as many members have already found.

 

 

Yes. But the problem is that it takes too much work to make PC audio "easily" outperform affordable CD players. In my audio club a computer demonstration is often fraught with some hardware of software glitch.

 

Even my simple plug and play streamer (SONOS) drops dead each time some clown at iTunes thinks we need to "upgrade".

Some DACs die every time the drivers are not updated with an OS "upgrade".

 

If you are a talented computer hobbyist, you are golden. The rest of us will remain dubious.

[NOMBEDES]

EVERYONE LISTEN UP!!!

Good news is check out PS AUDIO website!!!! A brand new transport has been introduced.

Paul mentions the CD has come very close to high res. I think if you burn on ULTRA DISC you probably get better than high res. I can say because i have a second master CD copy of few albums and high res is no match.

 

 

I would love to have a PS Audio Transport plus DAC, but this solution is as out of reach as dCS kit. $6K for the transport and you can only use a PS Audio DAC (at various prices) to get the full benefit of the DSD. Ouch.

[Ralf11]

ARC is well-known for "exaggeration of the upper mid and treble" - a very liquid, musical tubey sound

 

absolute fidelity doesn't always sound the best to people

[sandyk]

Yes. But the problem is that it takes too much work to make PC audio "easily" outperform affordable CD players. In my audio club a computer demonstration is often fraught with some hardware of software glitch.

 

Even my simple plug and play streamer (SONOS) drops dead each time some clown at iTunes thinks we need to "upgrade".

Some DACs die every time the drivers are not updated with an OS "upgrade".

 

If you are a talented computer hobbyist, you are golden. The rest of us will remain dubious.

 

NOMBEDES

As I am retired, and with more time than money available, I am able to do these things. I don't have a background in computers like many other members have , but I do have an electronics background from 43 years with Telstra as a Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer, and >65 years as a DIY hobbyist, so I am able to make and design small PSU additions, special USB cables and adaptors etc. to help this happen. I have also made them for several friends at cost.

 

Yes ,Computers can be temperamental, especially if you move them around, so I also put material on USB memory and CD-R for demos through Media players such as the Oppo 95 to 105 series , Servers etc.

Alex

[NOMBEDES]

NOMBEDES

As I am retired, and with more time than money available, I am able to do these things. I don't have a background in computers like many other members have , but I do have an electronics background from 43 years with Telstra as a Principal Telecommunications Technical Officer, and >65 years as a DIY hobbyist, so I am able to make and design small PSU additions, special USB cables and adaptors etc. to help this happen. I have also made them for several friends at cost.

 

Yes ,Computers can be temperamental, especially if you move them around, so I also put material on USB memory and CD-R for demos through Media players such as the Oppo 95 to 105 series , Servers etc.

Alex

 

I envy the folks that have your skills. We have some very skilled techs and craftsmen in our audio group. They can build all sorts of equipment, such as amplifiers, music servers and even very nice audio furniture and wooden cases for their creations. I feel lucky just to be able to enjoy their work. All the best. ~Richard aka Nombe

[semente]

 

absolute fidelity doesn't always sound the best to people

Agreed.

 

R

[sandyk]

I envy the folks that have your skills. We have some very skilled techs and craftsmen in our audio group. They can build all sorts of equipment, such as amplifiers, music servers and even very nice audio furniture and wooden cases for their creations. I feel lucky just to be able to enjoy their work. All the best. ~Richard aka Nombe

 

Thanks Richard.

I am fortunate in being able to construct a very high quality DIY DAC, as well as construct and design my own Class A HA/Preamp and a fully DC coupled 15W/Ch. Class A power amplifier. Quite a few members of a UK based forum have also successfully constructed my designs using special PCBs designed by a few talented members ,with several threads exceeding well over 100 pages. Unfortunately, I could no longer remain as assistant Admin there due to the erratic and objectionable late night posting behaviour of the alcoholic owner of the forum, and my resignation saw him spitefully remove all of my many 100s of pages of construction articles etc.

Another one of my Class A HA's was constructed by a tech from the USA , and became fully operational as recently as 2 days ago.

 

Regards

Alex