As i always said...here is truth from the horses mouth - CD is the best digital source

[ajay556]

Quote from a hifi plus review

 

"Here’s the thing, though. Despite making one of the best streaming front-ends I can think of, despite the excellence of the USB input, and the sublime performance of DSD playback under DoP (as you might expect from the company that first minted the concept), I still prefer the sound the Rossini makes when spinning a disc. I don’t think I’m channelling my inner luddite here, and this conclusion isn’t that dCS doesn’t know how to do streaming – if anything, I’d put dCS’ network and online streaming performance at the top of what is currently possible. Rather, it’s that CD replay is just more ‘organic’ sounding than file-based versions of the same. Even the like-for-like WAV file ripped from the disc doesn’t sound quite as ‘there’ as the CD. The problem is the dCS CD replay doesn’t just out-perform dCS’s take on ‘next-gen’ audio; it’s a universal thing, and using the Rossini as transport to the other DACs in this test (and more besides) pointed to the same conclusion. Every time. As someone who was early to adopt file-based music, this comes as something of a shock."

 

Just like we have gone from Tape deck to vinyl to CD to now files - its a downward spiral to poor quality music. Yes I have 192/24 files. Just buy a solid transport and use a ULTRA DISC CD to burn the wav files and see the magic unfold.

 

Good luck!

[sandyk]

A properly implemented PC audio set up is capable of EASILY outperforming most affordable CD or DVD players, as many members have already found.

[gmgraves]

Quote from a hifi plus review

 

"Here’s the thing, though. Despite making one of the best streaming front-ends I can think of, despite the excellence of the USB input, and the sublime performance of DSD playback under DoP (as you might expect from the company that first minted the concept), I still prefer the sound the Rossini makes when spinning a disc. I don’t think I’m channelling my inner luddite here, and this conclusion isn’t that dCS doesn’t know how to do streaming – if anything, I’d put dCS’ network and online streaming performance at the top of what is currently possible. Rather, it’s that CD replay is just more ‘organic’ sounding than file-based versions of the same. Even the like-for-like WAV file ripped from the disc doesn’t sound quite as ‘there’ as the CD. The problem is the dCS CD replay doesn’t just out-perform dCS’s take on ‘next-gen’ audio; it’s a universal thing, and using the Rossini as transport to the other DACs in this test (and more besides) pointed to the same conclusion. Every time. As someone who was early to adopt file-based music, this comes as something of a shock."

 

Just like we have gone from Tape deck to vinyl to CD to now files - its a downward spiral to poor quality music. Yes I have 192/24 files. Just buy a solid transport and use a ULTRA DISC CD to burn the wav files and see the magic unfold.

 

Good luck!

 

You do realize that the HiFi+ article that you quote was a review of the dCS Vivaldi II, a 4-box solution to CD playback that costs in excess of $75 THOUSAND Pounds Sterling! CDs had better sound good for that price!

[gmgraves]

A properly implemented PC audio set up is capable of EASILY outperforming most affordable CD or DVD players, as many members have already found.

 

Agreed, Alex, but dCS playback equipment is not "affordable" by any stretch of the term, except to millionaires!

[davide256]

There's nothing preventing a CD player from cramming the computer inside and buffering the data for error detection/correction. And retrieving native PCM/DSD format should cut out some conversion steps/ opportunity for degradation that occur in making a file usable by a normal PC solution. But the cost....

[Keith_W]

This is what I find strange. My collection of FLAC files was ripped from CD using Exact Audio Copy. If I play the CD using the el-cheapo optical drive on my PC, it sounds better than the FLAC copy. I have done the same demonstration for a number of visitors, and they agree that the optical drive sounds better. I have no idea why.

[sphinxsix]

Just buy a solid transport and use a ULTRA DISC CD to burn the wav files and see the magic unfold.

 

Good luck!

No, thanks. I still play my CDs, I haven't ripped them. Superiority of hi-res files over CD is obvious.

[sandyk]

Agreed, Alex, but dCS playback equipment is not "affordable" by any stretch of the term, except to millionaires!

 

Hi George

I did say AFFORDABLE, but I was referring of course to an average person.

 

Kind Regards

Alex

[sandyk]

There's nothing preventing a CD player from cramming the computer inside and buffering the data for error detection/correction. And retrieving native PCM/DSD format should cut out some conversion steps/ opportunity for degradation that occur in making a file usable by a normal PC solution. But the cost....

 

A Perfect Wave Transport for example (P.W.T.) ?

Even then it can still be outperformed by a well implemented PC solution.

Yes, they are very good though, and I have heard a friend's PWT through my own and another couple of systems.

[sandyk]

This is what I find strange. My collection of FLAC files was ripped from CD using Exact Audio Copy. If I play the CD using the el-cheapo optical drive on my PC, it sounds better than the FLAC copy. I have done the same demonstration for a number of visitors, and they agree that the optical drive sounds better. I have no idea why.

 

For this to be happening, your set up clearly needs a lot of additional work.

Direct play from an internal CD drive without even saving the files to, and playing directly from System Memory with a good software player leaves a lot to be desired. What software are you using to play the CD directly from your internal CD/DVD Rom ?

[Keith_W]

For this to be happening, your set up clearly needs a lot of additional work.

Direct play from an internal CD drive without even saving the files to, and playing directly from System Memory with a good software player leaves a lot to be desired. What software are you using to play the CD directly from your internal CD/DVD Rom ?

 

I use HQPlayer for playing FLAC files and also for playing music which is stored on CD.

 

BTW are you aware of any software that reads the entire contents of the CD to memory before playback? A bit like PS Audio's PWT.

[Ralf11]

This is what I find strange. My collection of FLAC files was ripped from CD using Exact Audio Copy. If I play the CD using the el-cheapo optical drive on my PC, it sounds better than the FLAC copy. I have done the same demonstration for a number of visitors, and they agree that the optical drive sounds better. I have no idea why.

 

How is the FLAC file getting to the rest of the system?

 

Is it streamed or sent via something that uses packets?

 

Is the CD player doing the D to A conversion?

[sandyk]

I use HQPlayer for playing FLAC files and also for playing music which is stored on CD.

 

BTW are you aware of any software that reads the entire contents of the CD to memory before playback? A bit like PS Audio's PWT.

 

I presume that HQ Player plays for System Memory ?

If so, it doesn't say much for the quality of the rip it is playing, but I will not be going there in this thread as

any remarks about " bits are bits" are a bloody minefield, and I would need to take further discussion to PMs.

 

No, I am not aware of any SW that plays the entire CD from System Memory, at least with Windows. I use the simplistic cPlay which appears to save just a track at a time for playback.

[Rexp]

You do realize that the HiFi+ article that you quote was a review of the dCS Vivaldi II, a 4-box solution to CD playback that costs in excess of $75 THOUSAND Pounds Sterling! CDs had better sound good for that price!

 

It is actually from a Rossini review, they only cost 18000 pounds, lol:

 

dCS Rossini disc player and clock | The Absolute Sound

 

The reviewer in question isn't worth reading IMO..

[sandyk]

How is the FLAC file getting to the rest of the system?

 

Is it streamed or sent via something that uses packets?

 

That also applies to the CD being played directly via the internal CD Rom using HQ player

[Keith_W]

How is the FLAC file getting to the rest of the system? Is it streamed or sent via something that uses packets? Is the CD player doing the D to A conversion?

 

Hi Ralf, the system is set up like this:

 

CD transport: internal optical drive

FLAC source: internal 1TB SSD

DAC: Merging NADAC (8 channel) via Ravenna (i.e. RJ45 network protocol / CAT6 cable)

I presume that HQ Player plays for System Memory?

 

I don't know ... does it? For FLAC it probably does, but I am not sure about CD.

If so, it doesn't say much for the quality of the rip it is playing, but I will not be going there in this thread as any remarks about " bits are bits" are a bloody minefield, and I would need to take further discussion to PMs.

 

Yes, I know. And before long there will be someone telling me that I am hearing it wrong, but I assure you - I have done a blind test for my guests, and all I tell them is one is "Source A" and the other is "Source B" - which do you prefer? Nearly all can hear differences, and of the dozen or so people I have shown it to, only one prefers the FLAC. The CD seems to sound clearer.

[Ralf11]

IIRC, the format of the storage medium is not transmitted; instead, it is repackaged into a different format for transmission.

 

There has to be a difference somewhere for that sort of SQ delta to show up so clearly.

[sandyk]

Nearly all can hear differences, and of the dozen or so people I have shown it to, only one prefers the FLAC. The CD seems to sound clearer.

 

Keith

That doesn't surprise me as I have always preferred .wav over flac.

However, you normally need to rip a CD, not just play it from an internal CD Rom to have it play from System Memory. However, HQPlayer may be different in that respect, but with a well implemented PC, and using a fine SW player like that, it should sound way better than with most affordable CD players.

 

Perhaps Miska can chime in here about his player ?

 

Regards

Alex

[Rexp]

Hi Ralf, the system is set up like this:

 

CD transport: internal optical drive

FLAC source: internal 1TB SSD

DAC: Merging NADAC (8 channel) via Ravenna (i.e. RJ45 network protocol / CAT6 cable)

 

 

I don't know ... does it? For FLAC it probably does, but I am not sure about CD.

 

 

Yes, I know. And before long there will be someone telling me that I am hearing it wrong, but I assure you - I have done a blind test for my guests, and all I tell them is one is "Source A" and the other is "Source B" - which do you prefer? Nearly all can hear differences, and of the dozen or so people I have shown it to, only one prefers the FLAC. The CD seems to sound clearer.

Try ripping to wav, I doubt you'll hear a difference against the CD.

[One and a half]

I still prefer CD/SACD discs over files. Can play all day, totally enjoyable. For known good 96/24 or 192 files , these are converted to redbook and burned to MOFI gold discs.

Just as enjoyable.

[xiddox]

Try ripping to wav, I doubt you'll hear a difference against the CD.

 

No need to rip to WAV, just decompress the flac file to WAV before playing it. Then tell us if the cd still sounds better.

[sandyk]

Try ripping to wav, I doubt you'll hear a difference against the CD.

 

It's certainly worth trying. If you have an internal SSD try ripping to that first, then play it with HQPlayer.

[sandyk]

I still prefer CD/SACD discs over files. Can play all day, totally enjoyable. For known good 96/24 or 192 files , these are converted to redbook and burned to MOFI gold discs.

Just as enjoyable.

 

Yes, good 96/24 and 192/24 converted to RB CD can sound most enjoyable when burned to CD-Rs such as this and MAM Gold ,but perhaps a little lacklustre when burned to a normal Supermarket CD-R.

[ajay556]

I still prefer CD/SACD discs over files. Can play all day, totally enjoyable. For known good 96/24 or 192 files , these are converted to redbook and burned to MOFI gold discs.

Just as enjoyable.

 

EVERYONE LISTEN UP!!!

Good news is check out PS AUDIO website!!!! A brand new transport has been introduced.

Paul mentions the CD has come very close to high res. I think if you burn on ULTRA DISC you probably get better than high res. I can say because i have a second master CD copy of few albums and high res is no match.

[Keith_W]

Thanks for your suggestions, guys. I will compare WAV to FLAC and CD and see if it's better.