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Discussion of AC mains isolation transformers


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6 hours ago, jsawyer09 said:

Just wanted to say thanks, @One and a half. This is more or less where I started, so everything has come full-circle. It's just I read a lot online about how people were using a UPS with the Topaz, so thought I'd do some experimentation. I already had one, so figured, why not? However, your suggestion to put the pump/alarm on a Monster unit (in my case, it's a Panamax M5400, or the UPS now for that matter) was a good one. Initially I just had it plugged in to the extra receptacle the Topaz resided. So now it's:

 

20a Wall Receptacle #1 > Topaz > Tripp-Lite—Teddy Pardo 15/2 on Google Nest Router; Paul Hynes SR4 on EE8 Switch

20a Wall Receptacle #2 > Panamax (or UPS) > Septronics Pump/Alarm 

 

That looks OK! A lot of us have a type of Panamax, Furman, Monster Centre that really does squat for audio protection. The coils they use, for some reason, react with rapid current from amps especially, and the abundance of caps just seem to resonate at the wrong frequency with clear audible detriments. 

However, they are a real plus for computing equipment, fridges, your sump pump, printers, anything other than audio equipment and TV. Line conditioners usually have very good protection circuitry like overvoltage and undervoltage sensing or lost neutral detection that really works well. A more novel approach (use the Japanese to English translation (hilarious):

 

What happened when the hot water washing toilet seat was strengthened with an audio power supply?

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24 minutes ago, One and a half said:

What happened when the hot water washing toilet seat was strengthened with an audio power supply?

 

That's shocking! What some audiophiles will do for excitement...x-D

 

But I agree with you Gary, the complexity of some "power conditioner" designs can have odd effects. Some of them dump all the crap into the ground, and often they greatly increase the impedance between the grounds of connected equipment. Which is quite counterproductive if one is trying to minimize leakage loops between gear. 

That's why we prefer the approach of a very stout, completely filterless power strip (with solid low impedance grounding wires or bus-bar between outlets) fronted from the wall by a great isolation transformer--such as the Topaz--for protection.

 

You mentioned Furman. We have had a variety of support issues (with ISO REGEN, UltraCap, and EtherREGEN) that ended up going away when the client bypassed their Furman box.  Garth Powell, ex of Furman, is also the designer of Audioquest's Niagara series.  Below is a pic. I have no idea what he is trying to accomplish (though I am not an engineer and pass no judgement). Just looks like more than I would want/need between the wall and my audio components.  It's not an AC>DC supply. It's supposed to be just AC in, AC out. :/

 

audioquest-niagara-7000-inside-white_2048x.thumb.jpg.c7a620d037422db77f72c464408d04d4.jpg

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@Superdad, is that a Furman unit or one of the Niagaras? Not certain about it, either. I looked into AQ Niagara when I was setting up my system before moving into our new house, but went with a PS Audio Power Regenerator instead. I respect Garth a lot, and have had discussions and even interviewed Bill Low on a couple of occasions back when I was doing feature article work (and own mostly AQ power cords and ICs), so really wanted to support a good 'last step' in providing clean power to my system, even with dedicated 20a lines. Ultimately, regeneration made more sense to me; I didn't want to experiment or fuss about with another 'conditioner' on the market, so auditioned the PS Audio after researching and haven't looked back.

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25 minutes ago, jsawyer09 said:

is that a Furman unit or one of the Niagaras?

 

Oh sorry, I meant to say so. It's the Audioquest Niagara 7000 ($9,500).

And again, no disrespect meant to Garth Powell. I actually found his 31-page paper on AC rather interesting:

https://www.audioquest.com/resource/1136/Power-Demystified-whitepaper-8-23-18.zip

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  • 1 month later...

It's getting warmer and warmer where I live and we started using the air conditioner,

Funny thing is that earlier this year I bought out of curiosity the PS Audio noise harvester,

Didn't expect much of it and it actually did not show noticeable improvement to the sound. It didn't light up very frequently either, so I concluded that either it is just not doing anything or I am really lucky to have very clean power to begin with (I am running a dedicated line to my HiFi)

 

BUT

 

Now that we turned on the air conditioner it started flashing like crazy :-)

I have a few air conditioners at home, but only 1 in particular causes the noise harvester to flash like crazy. I know that this particular unit is different, it is an AC Inverter type of air conditioner (supposed to invert AC to varying DC and therefore be more energy efficient, or something in that area of explanation). So I guess this AC inversion process is kicking back some nasties back to the main,

 

I would really like to prevent this leakage at the source and I know I should post this question on the PS Audio forum, (and I will), but I really appreciate this UpTone  forum and all the knowledge that people here share,

Is there any EMI filter I can install in-line to the air conditioner plug that will help reduce this effect? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, GMG said:

It's getting warmer and warmer where I live and we started using the air conditioner,

Funny thing is that earlier this year I bought out of curiosity the PS Audio noise harvester,

Didn't expect much of it and it actually did not show noticeable improvement to the sound. It didn't light up very frequently either, so I concluded that either it is just not doing anything or I am really lucky to have very clean power to begin with (I am running a dedicated line to my HiFi)

 

BUT

 

Now that we turned on the air conditioner it started flashing like crazy :-)

I have a few air conditioners at home, but only 1 in particular causes the noise harvester to flash like crazy. I know that this particular unit is different, it is an AC Inverter type of air conditioner (supposed to invert AC to varying DC and therefore be more energy efficient, or something in that area of explanation). So I guess this AC inversion process is kicking back some nasties back to the main,

 

I would really like to prevent this leakage at the source and I know I should post this question on the PS Audio forum, (and I will), but I really appreciate this UpTone  forum and all the knowledge that people here share,

Is there any EMI filter I can install in-line to the air conditioner plug that will help reduce this effect? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a tough one since a quick look on Amazon has pathetic EMC filters that plug in. There's no data on attenuation relating to that a) we need to suppress

B) what the filter can do. 

 

The best filter is the single phase box type but that needs professional electrical install.

 

Wait, do you have an unused power conditioner like a Tripp lite, Furman, monster cable type ? Try that on the air-conditioning. It will need to be rated for 20A to match the aircon. 

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Thanks @One and a half,

I had a look at Amazon and got lost. 
there is indeed no info on what the filters actually do. But then, I also don’t know what exactly needs filtering as I have no way to measure it. 
so a general filter would be a good suggestion. 
 

I was wondering if this would be a good choice (20A is more then enough)

Noise Suppressor Power EMI Filter Termianl Single-Phase Line-Conditioner JREle AC 115/250V 20A JRW1220-22 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073RMLFRC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2EA1V7C48QNBKG45EWF2

 

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25 minutes ago, GMG said:

Thanks @One and a half,

I had a look at Amazon and got lost. 
there is indeed no info on what the filters actually do. But then, I also don’t know what exactly needs filtering as I have no way to measure it. 
so a general filter would be a good suggestion. 
 

I was wondering if this would be a good choice (20A is more then enough)

Noise Suppressor Power EMI Filter Termianl Single-Phase Line-Conditioner JREle AC 115/250V 20A JRW1220-22 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073RMLFRC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2EA1V7C48QNBKG45EWF2

 

Yes, something like that, the covered terminals are a good feature. Will need to be put inside or on a wall in a box. Depends on local regs which I'm not that familiar with in Israel.

 

The earth is important so that it is connected to the line and the other earth on the filter to the air-conditioning.

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