dCS Network Bridge

[AmusedToD]

6 hours ago, Darryl R said:

 

I set up an A/B of bridged and unbridged network connections and the difference is that significant.  Thanks for the recommendation on this Nick. 

 

So you like it better too? Well, we should thank @romaz and @austinpop for this one and many other popular upstream tweaks.

 

Which software are you using?

 

 

[Darryl R]

3 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

 

So you like it better too? Well, we should thank @romaz and @austinpop for this one and many other popular upstream tweaks.

 

Which software are you using?

 

 

 

MinimServer on Mavericks and Windows 10 with the dCS app.  Yes, thanks to those guys!

 

So I'm back to needing a WIndows server (thinking dual Ethernet, LPS, fanless, WD Red 8TB).

 

Btw, the Sigma analog cables are on, and starting to open up.  More on that later.

[AmusedToD]

dCS Rossini MQA update is up. As per Martin’s email, we should expect the NBR (as well as Vivaldi DAC and upsampler) to receive an update within the next month or two.

[AmusedToD]

On 7.12.2017. at 12:48 PM, Darryl R said:

So I'm back to needing a WIndows server (thinking dual Ethernet, LPS, fanless, WD Red 8TB).

 

Check this out: 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07237NPWH/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513158667&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=zotac+i5&dpPl=1&dpID=418xeppuEuL&ref=plSrch

 

 

[Darryl R]

On 12/13/2017 at 3:52 AM, AmusedToD said:

 

Check this out: 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07237NPWH/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513158667&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=zotac+i5&dpPl=1&dpID=418xeppuEuL&ref=plSrch

 

 

 

That's one of the few minis I've seen with dual Ethernet, but I"m looking for an internal drive.  Andrew at smallgreen is working on something for me.

[hltf]

On 12/7/2017 at 2:51 AM, AmusedToD said:

 

So you like it better too? Well, we should thank @romaz and @austinpop for this one and many other popular upstream tweaks.

 

Which software are you using?

 

 

I too now have implemented  the bridged ethernet tweak suggested by @romaz out of one of my 2010 MacMini's USB ports using a $30 USB-ethernet adapter from the Apple Store.  It certainly was well worth my time and the small outlay of funds!

 

May I ask which other upstream tweaks you meant that might be applicable to my DCS NB/MacMini set up?

 

Thank you.

[AmusedToD]

On 30.12.2017. at 3:53 AM, hltf said:

I too now have implemented  the bridged ethernet tweak suggested by @romaz out of one of my 2010 MacMini's USB ports using a $30 USB-ethernet adapter from the Apple Store.  It certainly was well worth my time and the small outlay of funds!

 

May I ask which other upstream tweaks you meant that might be applicable to my DCS NB/MacMini set up?

 

Thank you.

 

Not really sure as I haven’t tested many, but have a general idea of what could be done. Perhaps something like this:

 

1. Fanless dual LAN computer server based on the SOtM sCLK-ex clock board with a 75 ohm reference clock input (the SOtM clock board would take care of the ethernet protocol clocking where the audio signal travels from the server to the dCS NBR)

2. dCS Master clock with a reference clock input that would be connected to the word clock inputs of the dCS NBR and a dCS DAC 

3. Cybershaft reference master clock with two 75ohm output, one to be connected to the input on the server and the other to the input of the dCS clock

 

This imaginary setup would allow both the system and the audio clocks to be synchronized to an external reference master clock.

 

@austinpop, do you think this could work?

[hltf]

1 hour ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Not really sure as I haven’t tested many, but have a general idea of what could be done. Perhaps something like this:

 

1. Fanless dual LAN computer server based on the SOtM sCLK-ex clock board with a 75 ohm reference clock input (the SOtM clock board would take care of the ethernet protocol clocking where the audio signal travels from the server to the dCS NBR)

2. dCS Master clock with a reference clock input that would be connected to the word clock inputs of the dCS NBR and a dCS DAC 

3. Cybershaft reference master clock with two 75ohm output, one to be connected to the input on the server and the other to the input of the dCS clock

 

This imaginary setup would allow both the system and the audio clocks to be synchronized to an external reference master clock.

 

@austinpop, do you think this could work?

 

The configuration of computers and clocks you mention is intriguing.  I will have to try and check them out. Thanks.  I should say too that they are a bit above my present technical networking know-how, so any links etc that you recommend I look at would be helpful.

 

I had in the past thought of interposing a clock between the DCS NB and my DAC.  However, my DAC is not a DCS DAC, and in fact doesn't have a clock input, so I am not sure I can really benefit from or even properly use an external clock.  My DAC is a non-oversampling Concert Fidelity DAC-040 with a vintage Philips 16/44 (actually 16/48 I believe) DAC chip, and as far as I can tell no internal clock either.  I believe this is similar to the Audio Note NOS DAC approach, although AN uses a different chip (Analog Devices I think).  Do you think I could benefit from an external clock even without the clock input to my DAC?

 

I have heard of the benefits of a fanless computer server.  I figure when my MacMini comes close to the end of its life (its now 7-8 years old) I will replace it with a good fanless server option.  I believe the NUC option is not always fanless, correct?  Roon is also now offering a server computer.  

 

[hltf]

4 hours ago, hltf said:

Also I did see your link of another fanless computer above.  That should be interesting too when I am ready to switch..

 

[Darryl R]

I hear ticks between my DSF files, both ripped and purchased, and am wondering if any other NBR owners do.

 

I've been requesting support from dCS and the US support staff on this for a few months now.  dCS have yet to prove to me customer support is important to them.

[toetapaudio]

2 minutes ago, Darryl R said:

I hear ticks between my DSF files, both ripped and purchased, and am wondering if any other NBR owners do.

 

I've been requesting support from dCS and the US support staff on this for a few months now.  dCS have yet to prove to me customer support is important to them.

 

Unlike Lumin who’s support is excellent.

[Darryl R]

On 1/1/2018 at 4:16 PM, hltf said:

I have heard of the benefits of a fanless computer server.  I figure when my MacMini comes close to the end of its life (its now 7-8 years old) I will replace it with a good fanless server option.  I believe the NUC option is not always fanless, correct?  Roon is also now offering a server computer.  

 

 

I've investigated the latest options for fanless servers, and am of the opinion that it's no longer wise to spend much money on them.  Several companies offer barebones machines for a few hundred bucks.  They have fanless solutions for dusty shop floors, small mobos with low energy consumption, multiple NICs, even Windows Server compatibility, all of which benefit our application.  "NUC" is both a form factor and a reference to the Intel kits.  I could not find a fanless Intel NUC, but some are on the way.  Though for the dual network, you would have to use one of the third-party Intel NUC lids.  All of the NUCs, both Intel and others, were too small for my requirements.

[One and a half]

11 hours ago, Darryl R said:

I hear ticks between my DSF files, both ripped and purchased, and am wondering if any other NBR owners do.

 

I've been requesting support from dCS and the US support staff on this for a few months now.  dCS have yet to prove to me customer support is important to them.

I was planning to buy a Network Bridge, however after seeing this post, firstly, thank you for mentioning, and hope there's a quick resolution. Ticks between DSF's makes the blood boil, as I expect to hear it, and can't blot it out.

Sometimes alleviated with the player, HQPlayer is not the best at it, Jriver is very good, Roon is good (when converting to PCM as a suggestion). Haven't tried any other players on Mac like Audirvana+.

Perhaps if you have Roon, a conversion from DSD to PCM may work well, the software conversions in the past weren't that great, but 'modern/recent' software has come a long way.

[Darryl R]

11 minutes ago, One and a half said:

I was planning to buy a Network Bridge, however after seeing this post, firstly, thank you for mentioning, and hope there's a quick resolution. Ticks between DSF's makes the blood boil, as I expect to hear it, and can't blot it out.

Sometimes alleviated with the player, HQPlayer is not the best at it, Jriver is very good, Roon is good (when converting to PCM as a suggestion). Haven't tried any other players on Mac like Audirvana+.

Perhaps if you have Roon, a conversion from DSD to PCM may work well, the software conversions in the past weren't that great, but 'modern/recent' software has come a long way.

 

Still there with Roon's various settings, as well as with buffering set on in the Vivaldi.  PCM conversion removes the tick, but the DAC is supposed to play DSD files.  Btw, I preferred HQPlayer in the past, but with the NBR I use the imbedded player.

 

I did happen to get a response this afternoon from dCS on this:

 

Quote

The Vivaldi DAC has a Buffer feature that was added to give the DAC time to mute when the data stream is interrupted. This operates at all rates, including DSD.

 

With PCM data, we can handle the muting more elegantly as a DSP function. DSD is much more awkward, often requiring a relay mute if the data is interrupted. The relays momentarily disconnect the amplifier inputs before shorting them to ground. Some amplifiers produce a click when this happens.  

 

Yes, I agree that the ticks between DSD tracks can be quite annoying, especially with quietly recorded classical music, such as your Tchaikovsky tracks. I checked this out with Momentum amplifiers, which are particularly prone to producing clicks when the muting relays operate. I have logged this as a bug and passed it over to Development to investigate.

 

[KunterK]

Vivaldi DAC finally arrived and has been sitting in my system for 3 days, warming up, paired with the Network Bridge.

 

Yes it's phenomenal

 

I still run on single AES as my second cable is still on its way. Roon upsamples to 176/192.

 

I briefly tried the alternative clocking schemes. 

1. NBr as master, DAC as slave

2. DAC as master, NBr as slave

 

NBr as master wins. More precise, more detail, better imaging, 3D.

 

This is counterintuitive, since the clock closest to the DAC should have prevailed. But it did not.

 

It might be, that DAC still needs time to settle down. Or, I believe, the clock in NBr is really that good.

 

I will try again in a couple of days once everything settles down.

 

Cheers

 

[Beolab]

2 hours ago, KunterK said:

Vivaldi DAC finally arrived and has been sitting in my system for 3 days, warming up, paired with the Network Bridge.

 

Yes it's phenomenal

 

I still run on single AES as my second cable is still on its way. Roon upsamples to 176/192.

 

I briefly tried the alternative clocking schemes. 

1. NBr as master, DAC as slave

2. DAC as master, NBr as slave

 

NBr as master wins. More precise, more detail, better imaging, 3D.

 

This is counterintuitive, since the clock closest to the DAC should have prevailed. But it did not.

 

It might be, that DAC still needs time to settle down. Or, I believe, the clock in NBr is really that good.

 

I will try again in a couple of days once everything settles down.

 

Cheers

 

 

Congratulations on your new Vivaldi ! 

 

If you get the oppertunity to try a dCS Master Clock, and connect it to your setup, this will give you more depth and fluidness and becomes more musical overall.

With the NBR as master, the sound is a little to light and slightly to flat in my book. 

 

But if it is a brand new Vivaldi you have bought, then it need to settle in , so just enjoy! ???

[Beolab]

Ordered some BNC 75 Ohm SDI 

12 Ghz made for 4K UHD pro broadcasting Canare cables just for fun, that i can highly recommend and they had greater precision than my BNC Nordos Valhallas, they did not got the same overall focus as the Canares. 

It may be because of the Canare 

Professional cable is made for this kind of word.clock frequencies more than the Valhallas is my conclution. 

 

Here is the special Canare 12 Ghz beryllium copper plug:

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=246

 

And here is the cable: 

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=247

 

Here you can buy it assembled: 

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1338227-REG/canare_cal55cuhd006_12g_sdi_4k_uhd_single_channel_bnc_cable.html

 

 

 

[Julius]

1 hour ago, Beolab said:

Ordered some BNC 75 Ohm SDI 

12 Ghz made for 4K UHD pro broadcasting Canare cables just for fun, that i can highly recommend and they had greater precision than my BNC Nordos Valhallas, they did not got the same overall focus as the Canares. 

It may be because of the Canare 

Professional cable is made for this kind of word.clock frequencies more than the Valhallas is my conclution. 

 

Here is the special Canare 12 Ghz beryllium copper plug:

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=246

 

And here is the cable: 

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=247

 

Here you can buy it assembled: 

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1338227-REG/canare_cal55cuhd006_12g_sdi_4k_uhd_single_channel_bnc_cable.html

 

 

 

Interesting ! .. as they don't cost the same at all I guess !

 

[Julius]

Has anyone experienced the NB with the Debussy DAC?
How is the sound? What would be the optimal connections/configuration (AES, clock synchronization between the two components?...) to get the most out of them?

 

[Beolab]

19 minutes ago, Julius said:

Interesting ! .. as they don't cost the same at all I guess !

 

There is almost a joke how cheap they are, but they mesaur better than almost any cable / Ultra High End cable in the world. 

 

It increases only 12 Ohm in 1 kilometer lengt, and can carey 12 Gigabits Full 4k / 60 fps UHD signal over 100 meters without signal loss, that is almost a world record, so the cable in 3” is lightning fast and got almost no reaiatance and can maintain true 75 Ohm end to end. 

 

So if some company would re-make the cable and put on som fancy clothing and a few bulky ferrite magnets and cover them in rainforrest wood and gold incl a nice handmade wooden box and a certificate , then the cable could easy cost 3000 dollars and now one should even argue or queation it   

But there is a diffrens between pro audio / pro broadcasting vs home hifi audio and visual home high end in pricing  

 

The Proffessional manufacturers makes heavy dutey, long lasting and with the highest spec for the purpose, wheras the audiophile companys make products with soul and love, and trick you to think this Nordost or MIT , Silltech , Transparent etc high end cables have to make wounders if you just look at it and feel it. And yes there is very high spec often on the materials , but they never show a masaring spec with all mesaured data like the pro market does. 

 

The Vahallas 6ft BNC - BNC  was ~2700 dollars each with some discount. 

 

The Pro Canare 12 gigabit cable is just 30 dollars each, ex shipping and customs.  So you get two for around 110 $ in total. 

 

 

[Beolab]

37 minutes ago, Julius said:

Has anyone experienced the NB with the Debussy DAC?
How is the sound? What would be the optimal connections/configuration (AES, clock synchronization between the two components?...) to get the most out of them?

 

 

Go with dual AES and let the NB do the master clocking, but as i said earlier that you should try a dCS Master Word Clock it makes everything more fluid and you get much better depth. But if you like over the top almost over saturated resolution and slight thinner sound then the master clock in the NB is a killer.  

[AmusedToD]

5 hours ago, Beolab said:

Ordered some BNC 75 Ohm SDI 

12 Ghz made for 4K UHD pro broadcasting Canare cables just for fun, that i can highly recommend and they had greater precision than my BNC Nordos Valhallas, they did not got the same overall focus as the Canares. 

It may be because of the Canare 

Professional cable is made for this kind of word.clock frequencies more than the Valhallas is my conclution. 

 

Here is the special Canare 12 Ghz beryllium copper plug:

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=246

 

And here is the cable: 

 

http://canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=247

 

Here you can buy it assembled: 

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1338227-REG/canare_cal55cuhd006_12g_sdi_4k_uhd_single_channel_bnc_cable.html

 

 

 

 

Very interesting, might as well try it.

 

SOtM is about to launch their dCBL-BNC cable, I suppose aimed at clock users. Their dCBL-CAT7 is probably one of the best ethernet cables in the world today, so if the BNC one gets any close in its respective field - it could be a winner.

 

As for the Canare cable, which length do you recommend?

[xtraktz]

On 13.01.2018 at 5:54 AM, Julius said:

Has anyone experienced the NB with the Debussy DAC?
How is the sound? What would be the optimal connections/configuration (AES, clock synchronization between the two components?...) to get the most out of them?

 

 

Also worried about this combo
By the way, a new firmware v2.30 with DSD128 support for Debussy just released.

 

 

[Patatorz]

Hello to all,

 i had the pleasure to listen to dcs network bridge few weeks ago and i was impressed on my system (not dCS dac....). Since month i hear that a firmware update should enable the USB as an output. I'm not sure if this firmware has been released or not or even still plan to be released. Would you have more information ?

Best regards

[Patatorz]

Ok i obtained my answer from dCS. Take care