dCS Network Bridge

[KunterK]

Has anybody tried dCS Network Bridge and Vivaldi DAC together? 

 

May sound silly initially, but bear with me on this.

 

We did various tests on a friends Vivaldi / Aurender W20 system. the W20 into Vivaldi DAC (Dual AES) is of course great. However, when both units are slaved to the Vivaldi Master Clock, the real magic happens.

 

So I wonder. Is getting a Network Bridge and Vivaldi DAC, slaving the NB to Vivaldi DAC's clock, and using dual AES for data, provide the holy grail of computer audio, at fraction of the cost of Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler or W20/Clock setup?

 

Cheers.

[KunterK]

Confused,

Hi from an exDevialet co-owner

 

I now have dCS NB (after owning N10) and the sound is sublime. Drives a TotalDAC D1six through AES, Roon Rock on NUC7i5 as server. 

 

I tried it with the Rossini clock but did not hear any improvements. NB sounds very jitter free as is. Simple is better I guess. It even sounded better all around compared to a Vivaldi Upsampler to my ears, but ymmv.

 

REF10/MC3/NB setup should work but might be an overkill. This thing is so good on its own.

 

If you can clock your DAC as well (like Vivaldi DAC) the story will be very different I guess.

 

Cheers...

[KunterK]

1 minute ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Interesting findings. Does your TotalDac have a word clock input? If it doesn’t, then using a Master clock on the NB itself (without syncing the DAC at the same time) is probably the reason why you heard no meaningful upgrade, because the clocks inside the NB are already excellent.

Exactly my point...

 

I did not try the Vivaldi Clock though, which might be superior to Rossini Clock. And I have no experience with the MC3

 

NB provides the best digital I heard in my system so far... 

 

Just updated my signature too... I guess things have moved so fast for me...

[KunterK]

I set up the NUC only today and I have ROCK on it. Previously I was using a Synology NAS and no Roon. Compared to the NAS/NB setup, I don't hear any problems.

 

My fanless case will arrive in a couple of weeks and I will then go to a Paul Hynes power supply as well. Not much point until then, as there is a fan in the NUC case which probably is doing all nasty things on the power supply rails. 

 

And Roon needs to finish the analysis and quiet down as well for me have a better opinion.

 

The best sound through NB came when used with a homebrew NAS using battery powered Asus Tinkerboard running minimserver. So I have my reference there. Lets see if the NUC/Roon will catch that. Its a very close call now. But the user experience in Roon is so good, I am not bothered with slightly lower sound quality.

 

I am not using upsampling or HQPlayer now. I tried briefly, and yes things sound a bit better with roon upsampling and yes NUC7i5 seems to handle it like a champ. No other DSP's though. I will try to give more info once things settle and quiet down. My DAC might not be the best for upsampling due to the design...

 

I use an external USB HDD to NUC, with which I also use a DC iPurifier, and connect it with Audioquest Cinnamon USB Cable.

 

Also, as mentioned many times elsewhere, optical isolation is a gem connecting NB to the switch. All these add up. quite nicely.

[KunterK]

4 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

Fan noise is a killer if the NUC is in the same room with the system.  That's the primary reason I'm awaiting the Nucleus to replace my MacMini.  I believe Chris, in building his Roon R.O.C.K. for running Core, ran into this issue -- principally due to choosing the i7, driving fan noise.

My i5 NUC is pretty silent even when driven hard with discovery and DSP. Yes the fan is there but need to be very close to hear.

 

I am more concerned that it is there using the electricity... Power supply should be contaminated, but I don't know by how much. I will see if it makes a difference when the fanless case arrives

[KunterK]

2 hours ago, iefbo said:

I've been looking for an answer to this question but it is hard to find ...

Has anyone compare the sound quality of the Aurender N10 and the DCS Network Bridge on the same system?

If so what were your findings?

After testing in my system I "upgraded" to dCS Network Bridge from Aurender N10. Since dCS is playing from the Network or from an attached USB drive,  not from an internal disk,  one should be careful with the surrounding items (network, data source etc)  when doing the comparison. Both were connected to a TotalDAC D1-six (which is now up for sale, to be replaced by a Vivaldi DAC) via transparent XL AES. Proper network feed performs better than attached USB) 

When driven from roon (linear powered NUC i5) the sound is sublime with the NB on all dimensions. 

To my ears it even challenges W20 quite nicely.

 

Cheers

[KunterK]

30 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Congrats on getting the Vivaldi! I heard the full stack recently and was blown away by it.

 

You should definitely try the dual AES, the improvement over the single AES is simply stunning! Especially since you already have one of the best digital cables in the world (Transparent Reference XL). 

I did try it hence the change. Dual Aes and clock from NB to Vivaldi with roon upsampling was very bad for the wallet. 

 

I will use Shunyata sigma for Aes and clock though. Will report performance once I have them. 

 

Xl trio is too expensive. 

[KunterK]

Quick update on digital cables.

 

I received my Shunyata Sigma AES cable and had the chance to compare it to the Transparent Ref XL. In short, I am not going back. Detail, presentation, body, all there in abundance. Much clearer.

 

You should just give it a couple of days, may be a week to settle in.

 

Another AES and a Sigma Clock is now on order, expected to arrive with the Vivaldi DAC. I had a chance to try the Sigma Clock in a friend's system where it proved its worth and stayed there as a clock cable for Vivaldi Transport.

 

Strongly recommended.

[KunterK]

Just now, AmusedToD said:

 

You prefer the Shunyata’s to the Ref XL? Could you elaborate a bit? Which are your interconnect and speaker cables? The price of the Shunyata?

 

The Sigma clock is also Shunyata?

Yes I prefer Shunyata Sigma to Ref XL.

 

My interconnects are Echole Omnia and the speaker cable is HighFidelityCables UR Helix. Very revealing bunch.

Shunyata AES US retail is 2k. Yes clock is also Shunyata Sigma.

 

I hear simply no shortcomings on the cable. Open, airy, sort of very correct, if you will. No added coloration.

 

It was good from start but it just clicked about a week after being plugged in. 

[KunterK]

Just now, AmusedToD said:

 

The Shunyata AES is almost 2 times cheaper than the Ref XL. Very interesting. Is the Sigma their top of the line cable?

 

Yes. It is half the price. I guess currently its their top of the line. Interesting and fortunate for the wallet. YMMW but its worth a try if you can get hold of one.

[KunterK]

7 hours ago, Darryl R said:

I got my NBR set up in Dual AES mode with the Vivaldi in Master sync to the NBR Word Clock in and the sound is the best yet, but certainly things need to burn in, and I've got to get those great digital cables.  I'm reading directly from my 2TB drive, files ranging from 16/44.1 to 24/352.8 and DSD64/128, and everything switches nicely as advertised (helped I think by buffering in the Vivaldi).

Congrats

 

Have you tried setting NBr as the master for clocking? I wonder which setup is better. NBr has a more quieter innards and I believe a very steady clock as I could not better it with an external clock. Whereas dac has the advantage of having the clock close by. 

 

Thanks

[KunterK]

16 minutes ago, Darryl R said:

Hi KunterK,

 

I have not tried this.  Thanks for sharing it.  Are you using it with Dual AES and various rates (looks like 352.8/DSD128 would be downsampled, of which I have very few and could live without if this is great)?

I tried with a demo Vivaldi Dac and did the test with NBr as master. Did not check the other way. Will test further when my Vivaldi Dac arrives. Will use it with dual Aes and the difference was big compared with single aes. I used upsampling in Roon (x2) 

[KunterK]

17 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Are you saying there are no real benefits in using an external dCS master clock? Which master clocks did you test? 

I tested with Rossini clock and heard no benefits. But this is when NBr was driving my TotalDac. Using with a clockable dcs dac can be another story. Will try again when my Vivaldi arrives but in any case it will have to have a huge difference given the extra complexity and cost. (3 more clock cables,  one more power cable and of course the clock itself and the rack space. Even with budget friendlier but very good Shunyata Sigma, that is 6k list only on digital clock cables, 15k on clock and power cable at your choosing which pushes the additional cost to ~25k levels) 

Vivaldi and NBr clocked to each other is much simpler and already sounds great. However,  it's all these small improvements that pushes you so I will see. 

 

And as is always the case in this hobby, your mileage may vary. I am limited to what my system delivers and my ears

[KunterK]

6 minutes ago, Darryl R said:

KunterK,

 

Have you heard the new Shunyata Sigma analogue cables?  Some are on the way to me.

 

Thanks,

Darryl

No but I will when the local dist has them in stock. Please post your opinion when you have them. 

[KunterK]

9 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

Did you try the Puccini U-clock too?

Nope. 

[KunterK]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-network-bridge-network-player

 

Class A.

 

The review might have been more complete with an optical isolated network, and proper vibration management on the NBr instead of putting it on another device. (I find my Absolare Stabilian footers, which are similar to Ansuz Darkz resonance control, indispensable, on my Finite Elemente Master Rack)

[KunterK]

6 hours ago, Beolab said:

What do you guys think of optical network combined with the NB ? 

I am using just two optical media converters, and think they open up the sound spectra, but it is nothing hughe in diffrence. 

 

Try using battery power at least for the one close to your system, preferably for both, and use a 50/125 optical cable between, not 62.5/125.

[KunterK]

Vivaldi DAC finally arrived and has been sitting in my system for 3 days, warming up, paired with the Network Bridge.

 

Yes it's phenomenal

 

I still run on single AES as my second cable is still on its way. Roon upsamples to 176/192.

 

I briefly tried the alternative clocking schemes. 

1. NBr as master, DAC as slave

2. DAC as master, NBr as slave

 

NBr as master wins. More precise, more detail, better imaging, 3D.

 

This is counterintuitive, since the clock closest to the DAC should have prevailed. But it did not.

 

It might be, that DAC still needs time to settle down. Or, I believe, the clock in NBr is really that good.

 

I will try again in a couple of days once everything settles down.

 

Cheers

 

[KunterK]

Hi guys 

Once again I can state everything, I mean everything, is important in computer related audio. 

 

Last week I received my Uptone Audio JS-2 power supply. 

 

With one output I powered my 20TB WD USB disk, at 12v. With the other,  I powered the send side of TPLink media converter, at 5v. This was already on battery power.

 

Man, what a difference. The music pouring out is just palpable, so real. One of the biggest upgrades I had. 

 

Just wanted to share. 

 

Cheers 

[KunterK]

1 hour ago, AmusedToD said:

between the ROCK and my dCS NBR I kept the direct or “bridged” connection (thankfully it’s just plug and play, the Roon team have sorted this last year in one of the ROCK updates)

You still had to make NBR use static IP right? Can you share your setup details? (IP setup  on rock and NBR? 

[KunterK]

Thank you. Will give it a try 

[KunterK]

1 hour ago, iefbo said:

 

Doesn't that draw you to an all-in-one solution such as Aurender?

That would avoid (or drastically reduce) network reliance and other devices on the network (routers, switches, cabling, NAS, PC, etc).

I changed Aurender N10 for dCS  and yes to my ears the result is much better even in same conditions... and it goes further with enhancements on the surrounding stuff...

[KunterK]

3 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Nope, I did absolutely nothing. Started up ROCK, connected 1 ethernet cable (from the USB to ethernet adapter) to my network switch and connected 1 ethernet cable from the LAN input of the NUC directly to the dCS NBR. It all works perfectly. Please see the pics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it simply works... I was scared a bit assigning static IP to NBR since there is no easy way to reset the device if something goes wrong.

 

And yes it sounds better this way

 

Thank you

[KunterK]

4 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

 

Sure mate, good to know it works in your setup too. Do you have a linear PSU for the ROCK?

Yes. A Paul Hynes SR 5 at 15v. Works beautifully.

 

The only place I have left to attend to is the receiving end of the media bridge, which now runs on batteries. I may give the new Uptone LPS1.2 a try.

[KunterK]

I upgraded from N10 to NB. Quite a big difference in sound quality. I had a Totaldac D1-Six then. 

 

You should give both a listen.