Mapleshade Bedrock Speaker Stands

[witchdoctor]

I tried it, it just didn't work. Now it is in my kitchen

 

The cutting board seems like the wood was compressed or treated.

 

All of the potential other sources I have checked for these platforms have prices that are about equivalent

[witchdoctor]

If you want to see an all mapleshade setup (rack, platforms, bedrock stands, cables, and the man himself:

 

 

If you want to do a double take now watch this:

 

[Ralf11]

sounds like the thing to do is to get one of their stands and cut it in half on a tablesaw to see how it is put together

[witchdoctor]

sounds like the thing to do is to get one of their stands and cut it in half on a tablesaw to see how it is put together

 

Just call them and ask for pics, I am sure it wouldn't be a problem.

[Jud]

sounds like the thing to do is to get one of their stands and cut it in half on a tablesaw to see how it is put together

 

They have pretty extensive (of course marketing oriented) information about it on the website. Solid maple, air dried. Many of the metal parts are brass.

[semente]

Since there are very few designers using coincident drivers, nearly all multi-driver speakers are using this form of compensation.

 

That word - compensation - is rather a key, isn't it? Anyone who can't afford to hire the Philharmonic and doesn't have a home with a suitable performance space is trying to fit a gallon's worth of performed audio into a pint's worth of home audio reproduction. So compromise and compensation are the order of the day, on both the recording and playback ends.

 

As the ancient Greek saying goes, "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one great thing." There are many hedgehogs on these forums, telling award-winning producers they don't know how to set up microphones, DAC designers with more than 3 decades of experience that of course USB is the most horrible interface and not worthy of inclusion in an audiophile DAC, etc. The hedgehogs are always alert for violations of the one great truth they know.

 

I, on the other hand, am not smart enough to be a hedgehog. I do not know any great truths. I try to learn a little about compromises others have made to see whether they might be useful for my oh so compromised system. While I have not mistaken my system for the Philharmonic, I do often enjoy listening to it, so that will have to suffice.

 

That's a great fable Jud.

Makes me wonder if La Fontaines' were original...

 

But there aren't many recording engineers fitting their mics to acrylic plates; in fact it's generally accepted that most natural sounding recordings result from the use of some form of (proven) coincident or near coincident pair.

They may sound pleasant though, and that could be enough. The fact that they aren't using any mixing or processing is enough for a more lively sound and to make them stand out of the bulk of the commercial crowd.

 

We're back to one of our first conversations where I commented that Soundkeeper recordings sounded unnaturally sparkly and over detailed to me and you said that you liked them that way. I also said the same about Cookie's.

I and many others here find Mario's recordings a good standard for judging naturalness.

Please compare these with Soundkeeper and Mapleshade recordings and let me know what you think.

I'll try to listen to one of Mapleshade's recordings soon.

 

Naturalness of timbre and perspective is not a priority for many but it is for me and my comments are driven by this.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat, both in speaker design and in recording.

But not all ways are effective.

 

And then there are personal preferences: you are sensitive to phase coherence and I am to midrange cone breakup resonances.

We probably agree that flat though gently tilting from lows to highs at the listening spot is best.

Bedrocks don't, or can't do flat... You don't have to be a hedgehog to know this.

They might eliminate some resonances but you'll be picking a couple of leaves out of your drinking water but have soiled it with coliform bacteria.

On the other hand you can use resonance control in stands that are of the correct height.

Take your pick.

 

R

[semente]

They have pretty extensive (of course marketing oriented) information about it on the website. Solid maple, air dried. Many of the metal parts are brass.

Brass is blingy (audiophiles love a good bling).

It's also the stuff bells are made of which makes it a good conductor of vibration.

 

Ricardo, the hedgehog

[Jud]

Brass is blingy (audiophiles love a good bling).

It's also the stuff bells are made of which makes it a good conductor of vibration.

 

Ricardo, the hedgehog

 

Yeah, that always kind of did raise my antennae (brass and ringing).

 

Jud, neither a fox nor a hedgehog (fedgehog?).

[Jud]

But there aren't many recording engineers fitting their mics to acrylic plates; in fact it's generally accepted that most natural sounding recordings result from the use of some form of (proven) coincident or near coincident pair.

 

R

 

Hey, all I know is what I read in Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_microphone) and what I hear from recordings made with such mics, of which there have been many over a period of decades:

 

When used to record a soloist or small musical ensemble along with the room acoustics, a boundary microphone prevents phase interference between direct and reflected sound, resulting in a natural sound with a flatter frequency response than can be obtained with a stand-mounted microphone at the same distance....

[semente]

Hey, all I know is what I read in Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_microphone) and what I hear from recordings made with such mics, of which there have been many over a period of decades:

I'll give it a listen.

But besides frequency and there's also phase.

 

R

[witchdoctor]

I'll give it a listen.

But besides frequency and there's also phase.

 

R

 

Don't forget to get a good pair of stands like these when you begin to listen, I think I hear them calling your name already. Remember you can always send them back for a refund if they don't suit your taste.:

 

[Jud]

I'll give it a listen.

But besides frequency and there's also phase.

 

R

 

That just requires bolding a different portion of the quote -

 

When used to record a soloist or small musical ensemble along with the room acoustics, a boundary microphone prevents phase interference between direct and reflected sound, resulting in a natural sound with a flatter frequency response than can be obtained with a stand-mounted microphone at the same distance....

[semente]

That just requires bolding a different portion of the quote -

Thanks I out, on the phone, that helps.

 

R

[Ralf11]

They have pretty extensive (of course marketing oriented) information about it on the website. Solid maple, air dried. Many of the metal parts are brass.

 

then a maple cutting board should sound the same -- if a double blind test is used

[Jud]

then a maple cutting board should sound the same -- if a double blind test is used

 

I don't think, based on my research in the scientific literature, that double (or the more common single) blind testing is effective for most situations that audiophiles are concerned with. However, I agree another board of the same material, construction and dimensions should sound the same, with the possible exception that Mapleshade's maple is air dried, which is a rarity - by far the majority of maple lumber is kiln dried. If you read lumber yard and furniture maker websites, you will find that air dried maple is acknowledged to have less internal stress, all else being equal, than kiln dried maple. The possibility that this would make a difference in the resonant behavior of the wood and have audible results seems pretty tenuous to me, but I can't dismiss it on any scientific basis, so I've included it in my reply.

[Ralf11]

very odd claim

 

what makes you think that about double blind testing

[17629v2]

Obviously the aeroplane analogy didn't do a good job at explaining why the Bedrocks don't work but I've found another one that'll do the trick:

 

 

They say that an image is worth 1000 words... I wonder if that applies to reviews?

 

R

 

Where did you get that picture of Sal? 70 years later and he still has that same look on his face.

[17629v2]

very odd claim

 

what makes you think that about double blind testing

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with the concept of DBT. It just seems that its very difficult to set a test up where you can be confident of the results. All the ones I've read about are very disappointing in that the tests just don't take all relative variables into consideration. Also, with audio related tests, in most cases they can be very emotionally charged. Someone is setting out to prove that they're right on a particular issue. There's really nothing wrong with that. There needs to be some type of motivation to conduct the test in the first place. Quite often, though, I don't think people conducting the tests do enough to get the emotional component under control.

[Jud]

very odd claim

 

what makes you think that about double blind testing

 

You can get a start on what the published peer-reviewed scientific literature says by looking up the term "echoic memory" in Google (or Google Scholar if you want to get directly to papers and don't require a background first). If you want to go further after that, PM me.

[witchdoctor]

then a maple cutting board should sound the same -- if a double blind test is used

 

The one cutting board I tried sucked but I only tried one. The bedrock stands were to complex to DIY for my skills. You need tiny embedded brass supports in the back to hold the speaker. You really don't save that much either:

 

https://www.amazon.com/John-Boos-RA02-Reversible-Cutting/dp/B00063QBE0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477949601&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=maple+cutting+board&psc=1

 

18 x 15 x 2 Ready-To-Be-Finished Maple Platform-shop.mapleshadestore.com

[semente]

You can get a start on what the published peer-reviewed scientific literature says by looking up the term "echoic memory" in Google (or Google Scholar if you want to get directly to papers and don't require a background first). If you want to go further after that, PM me.

I don't like performing A-B comparisons, sighted or blind.

I find them boring and stressing at the same time and generally I just wish they're over soon.

To be honest I don't think that my memory works well in that situation.

 

On the other hand, I have found that sometimes prolonged listening, going through material that I am familiar with and which exposes particular frailties of reproduction, can often be more effective.

In my experience A-B comparisons have only been effective at showing differences in the most obvious aspects of reproduction and when the differences weren't really that subtle.

 

R

[Ralf11]

sensory memories are very short - I'll send you a pm, Jud

 

I often use 2 copies of source material with one lagging by several seconds, so I can hear a passage twice in a short time

 

once some time has passed it is very difficult to compare different setups; extended listening is helpful in getting ideas about how somethng sounds and critical in discovering a component that can sounds great at first but induces fatige after a while

 

blind testing is considered essential in overcoming confirmation bias, which is a huge problem

[semente]

blind testing is considered essential in overcoming confirmation bias, which is a huge problem

 

I agree that bias can be a huge problem.

I'd also add taste, or judging sound quality by what sounds good instead of what sound "right" or "neutral".

 

R, the hedgehog

[Ralf11]

mea culpa... I own a tube pre-amp

 

 

OTOH, it is a very neutral sounding tube pre...

[esldude]

The one cutting board I tried sucked but I only tried one. The bedrock stands were to complex to DIY for my skills. You need tiny embedded brass supports in the back to hold the speaker. You really don't save that much either:

 

https://www.amazon.com/John-Boos-RA02-Reversible-Cutting/dp/B00063QBE0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477949601&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=maple+cutting+board&psc=1

 

18 x 15 x 2 Ready-To-Be-Finished Maple Platform-shop.mapleshadestore.com

 

Some ideas instead of solid maple (though maple works great). Build a 3 inch deep wood box, fill with sand, glue on a top piece of wood to seal. Of course leave the corners thick enough for the threaded rod legs. A variation of this is used for benchtop stands for analytical balances. Those aren't accurate or repeatable if you have vibration corrupting results.

 

Or use two pieces of plywood or other thin wood. Place damping material in between, and clamp the two pieces together with the threaded rod nuts for each shelf. You can adjust clamping force for each shelf. Adjustable constrained mode damping. Permatex gasket material works well, but is nasty. Vinyl flooring is nearly as good and clean. You could use felt sheets. You could think of other materials. You want something that when you bend it the bend stays rather than flexing back.

 

Best version of all for vibration. Build your self a 6 inch deep box. Fill with sand about 4 inches deep. Cut top for the box with half inch gap all the way around. Float top on sand without touching the rest of the box. This is particularly good for turntables.