Upsampling to anything other than your DAC's internal conversion rate

[Jud]

You gotta proof better than simply saying[/url] :

 

He's provided quite extensive proof in many comments and blog posts with test results.

 

It would therefore seem to be up to you to read what he's written rather than demanding he repeat himself for your benefit.

[徐中銳]

Does your measurements really prove how you hear ?

 

Here's your chance today to show us the analogue eventuality—your preferred equipment setup and listening-room environment—from your digital mastery.

 

So far, it's been a leap of faith that it translates well in widely applicable, real world-listening-situation terms.

 

I have so much equipment in different configurations that I don't see any point in listing all those.

 

I've been posting quite a bit of my own measurement data and such. But I have not seen such from you. Have you made any measurements that proof the contrary?

 

Are you trying to say that the equipment I listed works bad in DSD? I'm pretty sure everybody would be happy to know what is the input format that works best with those.

[Miska]

Does your measurements really prove how you hear ?

 

As I've said before' date=' measurements are a good starting point, giving objective view. Everybody needs to listen on their own to make their own subjective opinion.

 

I already described above my objective-subjective approach and not going to repeat it anymore.

 

Here's your chance today to show us the analogue eventuality—your preferred equipment setup and listening-room environment—from your digital mastery.

 

I've said already couple of posts above, that my primary means of listening evaluation is through Sennheiser HD800 headphones. I have other headphones too (AKG, Beyerdynamic and Stax), but those Sennheisers are my primary ones at the moment. The current set is both extremely neutral and at the same time very accurate and analytic, for pointing out any sonic problems.

 

I was already talking about my loudspeaker preferences earlier in this thread, if that matters to someone.

 

So far, it's been a leap of faith that it translates well in widely applicable, real world-listening-situation terms.

 

My subjective listening opinions are mine and I encourage everybody to form their own ones. My subjective experiences apply only to me.

 

 

P.S. Of course, when using loudspeakers, important part is digital room correction. One of the reasons for me doing lot of the development, because I wanted to apply digital room correction also to DSD recordings without intermediate PCM decimation.

[徐中銳]

Let's take some time out.

We're conversing for the-greater-good. But we need also to take care of our personal health.

I'm still at my morning meal, started hours ago ; it's nearly noon. And it's getting late too for everyone up North.

Good night, continue another, better time ?

[徐中銳]

Re-reading your reply, is « DSD works great » your (and others) subjective or objective conclusion ?

 

My subjective listening opinions are mine and I encourage everybody to form their own ones. My subjective experiences apply only to me.

 

Many readers are not new Hi-Fi enthusiasts, they can spot troubling anomalies if you show them a photo of any setup practice.

For example, random photo I previously nominated :

 

I've said already couple of posts above, that my primary means of listening evaluation is through Sennheiser HD800 headphones. I have other headphones too (AKG, Beyerdynamic and Stax), but those Sennheisers are my primary ones at the moment. The current set is both extremely neutral and at the same time very accurate and analytic, for pointing out any sonic problems.

 

Well, for people interested in your filters, will they subjectively experience the same sound as you ?

 

Are you indeed limited to dominion over your software, everything from the point of its transmission to the DAC are beyond your control ? Thus, analogue sound itself is...

[semente]

What Miska is trying to do is to let you start with the cleanest possible digital signal.

How you soil it from there onwards is your responsibility.

 

 

I would start with a NOS DAC.

 

R

[semente]

Does your measurements really prove how you hear ?

 

Here's your chance today to show us the analogue eventuality—your preferred equipment setup and listening-room environment—from your digital mastery.

 

So far' date=' it's been a leap of faith that it translates well in widely applicable, real world-listening-situation terms.[/font']

 

Wilhelm,

 

I think you are missing the point of measurements.

They're not used to prove anything relating to hearing, only to determine the accuracy of a certain action, how much it interferes with the signal.

 

The goal of a high fidelity system is to tamper as little as possible with the recorded signal from the moment it's read until it's out in the room.

 

R

[徐中銳]

∴ Miska, HQPlayer is a-solution but not the-solution ? DSD may or may not work great if...

What Miska is trying to do is to let you start with the cleanest possible digital signal.

How you soil it from there onwards is your responsibility.

 

 

I would start with a NOS DAC.

 

R

 

Are you but saying his answer has little to do with my question ?

 

Wilhelm,

 

I think you are missing the point of measurements.

They're not used to prove anything relating to hearing, only to determine the accuracy of a certain action, how much it interferes with the signal.

 

The goal of a high fidelity system is to tamper as little as possible with the recorded signal from the moment it's read until it's out in the room.

 

R

[semente]

∴ Miska is a-solution but not the-solution ? DSD may or may not work great if...

My DAC doesn't do DSD but I still find his PCM solution (upsampling and filtering) a better solution.

Moving the processing away from the DAC, which should only do what it's supposed to: Digital to Analogue Conversion.

 

R

[徐中銳]

It's 23:23 in New Zealand, let's continue this some other time Happy Sunday

[YashN]

P.S. Of course, when using loudspeakers, important part is digital room correction. One of the reasons for me doing lot of the development, because I wanted to apply digital room correction also to DSD recordings without intermediate PCM decimation.

 

Why I think your technology is key for me for my future system is really also in the SDM processing (on top of the already fabulous filters and modulators and up-conversion + NAA), but I want to use it rather for an active SDM crossover prior to sending it to a MCH DSD DAC.

 

The Matrix SDM processing can do that, correct?

[YashN]

Well' date=' for people interested in your filters, [b']will they subjectively experience the same sound as you[/b] ?

 

Internal contradiction in that question.

 

This must be listened to, for yourself, not looked at on a picture.

 

There is a simplicity and purity in DSD and some well-implemented DACs can let this shine through more than others.

 

Not to say PCM DACs cannot sound great too. You may prefer one or the other. In a DAC which does both, one implementation may be better. There are some rare DACs which aim for the best implementations of both (Lukasz has that in one of his Lampizator DACs). PeterSt has a NOS PCM DAC which has a cult following too.

 

It appears you have missed many, many past posts from Miska, take some time and read through the threads regarding HQ Player and the NAA and more.

 

The gist of what he's been doing is to allow users not to be dependent on the constrained implementation in boxed DACs regarding filters and processing, as well as allowing us to have the DAC more isolated from the server (NAA).

 

In turn, using a server computer to host the modulators, filters and the processing algorithms allows us to benefit automatically from better computers, which is inevitable with time.

 

He was and is years ahead of everyone in the thinking, design and implementation of all this (IMO).

 

There is a reason some of the best setups demonstrated use HQ Player for up-conversion to very high-rates DSD into native DSD DACs. Perhaps Geoffrey or EuroDriver or someone else who heard this setup with the SGM server can elaborate further.

[Miska]

Many readers are not new Hi-Fi enthusiasts' date=' they can spot troubling anomalies if you show them a photo of any setup practice.[/quote']

 

Why do you care about my setup? Whatever my setups are, they don't mean anything to anybody else since I'm the only one listening through those.

 

Well, for people interested in your filters, will they subjectively experience the same sound as you ?

 

I'm pretty sure not. You cannot find two people who would experience same thing same way. That's why people need to listen and make their own mind. Trial is free, so trying it out doesn't cost anything but little bit of time and effort. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. Pretty simple.

 

I don't see other companies regularly posting details of their listening rooms either. Maybe some do, but I don't really care.

[徐中銳]

Well, briefly, everyone who have read many, many past posts from Miska, he has just declared how music sounds to him—his setups don't mean anything to anybody else since [he's] the only one listening through those.

It appears you have missed many, many past posts from Miska, take some time and read through the threads regarding HQ Player and the NAA and more.

 

It's mostly true, purchasing Hi-Fi, we've often, always on-our-own :

You cannot find two people who would experience same thing same way. That's why people need to listen and make their own mind. Trial is free, so trying it out doesn't cost anything but little bit of time and effort. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. Pretty simple.

[YashN]

Well' date=' briefly, everyone who have read [i']many, many past posts from Miska[/i], he has just declared how music sounds to him—his setups don't mean anything to anybody else since [he's] the only one listening through those.

It's mostly true, purchasing Hi-Fi, we've often, always on-our-own :

 

Which is why you listen both to others and then listen for yourself...

[徐中銳]

In the CA context, what does your listen to others mean ? Especially when asked, others won't substantiate their subjectivity—how they're hearing.

 

Which is why you listen both to others and then listen for yourself...

 

As you've listed your Audio System, how 'bout posting us a photo of it in your listening-room ? Let's see how your DSD comes through.

[YashN]

In the CA context' date=' what does your [i']listen to others[/i] mean ?

 

To get a pre-filter for what could sound good...

[Miska]

It's mostly true' date=' purchasing Hi-Fi, we've often, always on-our-own :[/quote']

 

That's how it should be.

 

Just take tips online what to hear yourself next.

[YashN]

As you've listed your Audio System' date=' how 'bout posting us a photo of it in your listening-room ? Let's see how your DSD comes through.[/font']

 

Check the Lampise your DSD thread, there are some pics there.

 

But you still don't get it: DSD should be listened to, and not looked at through pictures.

 

The current chain is Audirvana+ on MacOS -> USB -> Native DSD DAC -> Single-Ended Triode Tube Amp -> Totem Mites

[YashN]

That's how it should be.

 

Just take tips online what to hear yourself next.

 

That's it really. It is so evident I am wondering why we are letting ourselves be distracted by discussing this...

[YashN]

Check the Lampise your DSD thread, there are some pics there.

 

But you still don't get it: DSD should be listened to, and not looked at through pictures.

 

The current chain is Audirvana+ on MacOS -> USB -> Native DSD DAC -> Single-Ended Triode Tube Amp -> Totem Mites

 

Actually, I am going to put some more pics I took of my DIY SET Tube Amp that I took yesterday over there.

 

Miska, have you tried DSD256+ into a SET Tube Amp?

[Miska]

Miska, have you tried DSD256+ into a SET Tube Amp?

 

I don't have at SET tube amp, but I have a Prima Luna with my favorite selection of tubes. (2x Tungsol 12AX7, 2x JJ ECC802S, 4x SED EL34)

[徐中銳]

Get this : we want to look at how you, or another, listen (to examine if what you say you're hearing... can be replicated).

But you still don't get it: DSD should be listened to, and not looked at through pictures.

 

Hilarious, tips being also defined as where the garbage are.

Just take tips online what to hear yourself next.

[YashN]

I don't have at SET tube amp, but I have a Prima Luna with my favorite selection of tubes. (2x Tungsol 12AX7, 2x JJ ECC802S, 4x SED EL34)

 

I read a lot of positive reports about the Prima Luna gear. It's a Push-Pull?

 

Try a SET one day for that mid-range like no other if you haven't already.

 

My SET Amp can also take in the EL34s. One day I'll try those. For now, it's KT88 by Electro-Harmonix, and they are sounding great to me.

[YashN]

Hilarious' date=' [i']tips[/i] being also defined as where the garbage are.

 

Perhaps you aren't sure about why we share what we share in a forum like this?

 

But more seriously, the continuous nagging of Miska here is uncalled for...