genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Interesting. And with Cornan's comment too. I have the microRendu connected to F-1 converter via the hard adapter that came with the microRendu - no USB cable. But I guess I could try lifting the connectors using the tape trick... However, I will say that I can hear this noise even when the microRendu is not connected to the DAC at all. It's definitely riding the power lines into my amp and/or DAC. What was the solution with your TeraDak? Hi, What you described happened to me as well with my TeraDak LPS.... Cheers, Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 This might take me some time to diagram - do you have a recommended software program well-suited for developing this diagram? Can't be an active preamp - mine is a stepped attenuator module built into my Lampizator DAC. I only have the DAC and the Line Magnetic amp. Hi genjamon,this sounds like you still have a leakage loop in your system, most likely through an active preamp (if you have one). There is no "one size fits all" fix for this, we need to look at your system and figure out where it is and what to do about it. The way to do that is for you to make drawing of connections in your system, include ALL the connections, including AC mains, analog interconnects and digital interconnects. Include computers, routers, switches etc. As well as analog components. For each component connected to the AC mains include whether it is a two pin or three pin connection. For Ethernet connections indicate whether it is shielded connecting ground from one box to another through the cable (some CAT7/8). One other important test is to try turning the volume up and down and see if the "digital noise" changes. I'm not sure what thread Alex wants this sort of thing to be conducted in. John S. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hi Can you describe how you are using the LPS-1 with your TPLink FMCs? I have the LPS-1 with the microrendu and just using the supplied wallwarts to power the two TMPs. Are you powering both with 1 LPS -1 or two? thanks I'm powering one of the FMC's with an LPS-1. The one closest to the microRendu - ethernet connected to the microRendu. The second FMC - ethernet connected to router - is powered by a separate linear power supply. So, all of the network elements that are facing the audio system are either galvanically isolated from the network or powered by LPS-1's. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 IMO you should get rid of that solid adapter and get a unshielded USB cable. If your DAC does'nt require 5v power get yourself a cable without 5v wire and a detachable GND wire. Both Elijah Audio and Curious Cable would be able to provide such a cable. It will isolate your devices to ensure that no noise (of any kind) is transfered inbetween. Another choise is to buy a Intona..but IMO it is not as good option since it also adds its own noises to the chain. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app Thanks for the advice. I've owned both Elijah and Curious cables in the past. As well as Dana cable USB. And my buddy's own data-only USB cable (JMaxwell USB) that bested all of the above. But I have found with microRendu that the best USB cable is no USB cable - in terms of sound quality. I can revisit this as an experiment regarding the noise issue, as I still have my buddy's USB cable. But I'm not expecting a different result in terms of sound quality. Although when you have a reduction in overall noise floor of the magnitude of the LPS-1's, there's no telling how previous conclusions can be upended. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Comparing a normal shielded 4-wire USB cables to a unshielded 3-wire cable is no comparison at all. Even less with a unshielded 2-wire cable with detachable GND. It is not apples and pears...it is fruits and vegstibles IMO. Curious Cable do only shielded stock cables (but can do unshielded cables per request) and if you want to know how Elijah Audio sounds like you have to try his Konvertible Lite range when you are fully isolated from mains noises! Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app I'll have to verify this, but I'm pretty sure the JMaxwell is unshielded - using high tolerance/QC twisted pair wiring. I'm more inclined to this approach after doing my own DIY USB cables using high high purity UPOCC silver and silver/gold wires hand-twisted and then comparing to the JMaxwell. The only thing that's lacking in the JMaxwell from your recommendation is the ability to disconnect the ground after handshake. I may see if Ken will make a prototype version with this approach to see if it will work. But, one problem is the need for the 5V power line for the USB-SPDIF converter I'm using. That's why I've been using the hard adapter to begin with. But yes, the hard adapter is possibly the source of hardness or thinner sound than I'm looking for. I know when I used to have the Auralic Aries, I never preferred the hard adapter with the Regen because of a hardness it introduced. I never heard that with the microRendu, but maybe now there's clean enough power and this is beginning to be audible again. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hi Genjamon, sorry a newbie question. What does FMC stand for? You need to look in the networking forum here on CA. Plentiful threads on switching networking connections over from ethernet cables to fiber optics. This is for galvanic isolation in network connections. FMC stands for Fiber Media Converter. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Due to the way the forum works, this first post starting this thread will appear below all the posts I am about to move in here from the "LPS-1 Listening Impressions" thread. But I'm sure you all got the idea already. Thanks, -Alex C. Thanks, Alex! Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 The test about if it sounds the same as volume is changed is still very important. Thanks, John S. It's not volume-dependent. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Here you go guys soares 1 Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Thanks for the diagram, that helps immensely. The only leakage loop you should have left is DAC to power amp which goes through the power conditioner. BUT the digital stuff also goes through the power conditioner. Contrary to all "it makes sense to me" thoughts on the subject the way cut down on leakage loop noise with the DAC and pre/power amps is to have the tightest coupling you can get in the AC domain. Since a leakage loop goes through the AC main the higher the impedance in the mains side the higher the noise voltage generated between the boxes. I know the power conditioner is trying to suppress noise on the mains, but the methods frequently used actually increase the impedance between outlets thus increasing the noise from leakage loops. So to test this hypothesis, try taking the power conditioner out of the system and just use a very simple power strip, no filters, nothing fancy, just outlets connected by wires. This will give a very low impedance between the AC to each power supply, which should cut down on the noise generated by leakage loops. Everything you now have connected to the power conditioner should go into the simple power strip, including all the digital stuff. In combination with the LPS-1 and other leakage loop breaking devices doing this can really make a big difference. I did this in my system (replaced a $1k power conditioner with a $35 power strip and Topaz isolation transformer) and it made a significant improvement is SQ. Thanks, John S. thanks a bunch, John. How about this as an easier experiment: plug both DAC and Amp into the same duplex outlet on the power conditioner? But im still a big mystified about how the smps noise is coupling into what must be the amp? No leakage loops there, clearly, but there's still gotta be some pathway for that noise. And again, this isn't the first time. I had microRendu packet noise flowing through the HDPlex when it first arrived. I eventually tamed it by disconnecting one of the internal cables for me of its outputs, but before that, a 2prong cheater plug eliminated the noise. This makes me think it was riding the 3rd prong in that case. But in this case, iFi is a 2 prong wall wart, while the Meanwell has a 3 prong cord to wall. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I have the same problem with 'digital hash' coming through my system with an iFi 9v/LPS-1/µRendu/Chord Mojo powered off—very noticeable. With the Meanwell it's also there, though very faint. With my HDPlex there's no noise. I've taken all power strips out of the equation and plug right into the wall. See attached system diagram—btw, I'm bridging wifi/ethernet on the Macbook Pro, but I get the same noise with a D-Link router (though not an Airport Express). If the Mojo is powered on, I don't hear the noise. I only discovered this when the Mojo ran out of battery and shutdown. It doesn't concern me that much, but I'd sure enjoy an explanation as to what's happening and why. cheers, muski (One great feature of the LPS-1 is it's also a 4-second UPS—you can swap the PS without shutting down the µRendu). Glad I'm not the only one hearing this. It's been a busy week, so I haven't been able to update. But sometime early this week or last weekend, I shut down the whole system except the amp. Then I simply plugged in one LPS-1 and the Meanwell into the power conditioner - and put my ear up to the tweeter of one of my speakers. What I heard was a gradually increasing tone - like one of the supercapacitors was charging up - then some kind of brief quick digital noises before a second gradually increasing tone - like the second bank of the supercapacitors charging up. And after these two gradually increasing tones, there were two different sets of digital noises, each lasting for a couple seconds before switching to the other. One set was quieter than the other, but they also had different patterns to them. It sounds to me like I'm hearing some transform of the LPS-1 circuitry here. It could be how the Meanwell itself is "stressed" by the electrical draw and is putting some kinds of junk into the AC power. But I'm really curious about actually being able to hear those increasing tone sounds as the LPS-1 is initially charging up. Link to comment
genjamon Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I have been able to hear this in my system when the LPS-1 is powering my DAC. When the DAC is unpowered the output is high impedance, once it powers up the output is low impedance. So during the initial charging time (when there is no output from the LPS-1) the audio interconnects are picking up noise from the feeder supply cable. ( the volume control has to be up high to hear this) Once the DAC turns on and goes into low impedance output, this all goes away. So my guess is you are getting some pickup into your analog system from either the feeder supply itself or the cable connecting it to the LPS-1. John S. awesome. Mystery solved. I can confirm this in my system. I turned everything off except the amp. Then I removed all connections from the amp except the speaker wire. Then I powered up the LPS-1 using the Meanwell. Nothing - nada - zip with ear up to tweeter. Then in I connected the interconnects to the amp. Still no power to the DAC. The noise was there again with ear up to tweeter. Noise didn't change when I turned on the DAC. And I don't think it changed when I connected the speaker level cables that lead to the sub plate amps. Though there might have been a slight increase. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I've been running my MicroRendu with an iFi PS into a Marantz SA8005 USB-DAC with no problems. Just received my UltraCap PS and while I've been enjoying the sound, I 've been experiencing annoying random dropouts. These occur every 30 seconds to a minute or so. I unplugged the PS from my power conditioner and went straight into the wall. The problem persists. I have the UltraCap set to 7v output into the MR. This problem did not occur with the iFi. Any suggestions welcome. I recently bought some somewhat inexpensive Ebay LPS's from Zero Zone to power my two Uptone LPS-1 units. The Zero Zone's have LED displays for voltage, and one of the two units has a hard time keeping the Uptone LPS-1's charged adequately - the LED voltage dips from 9V down to 3V until the LPS-1 shifts into its full charge mode - thus turning off its output and the item it's powering shutting down. I'm pretty sure my situation is that the current draw from the LPS-1 is more than the Ebay power supply can provide on a consistent basis. It might be that your iFi can't keep up with the LPS-1 demands. I'd check if this is happening with your LPS-1 and microRendu. Do you know which version of the iFi yours is? I think there's a version that has less current capability than the others. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Sorry not to be clearer: I'm using the MeanWell SMPS supplied by Uptone. The iFi has been removed from the system, although if I can't find a solution to this problem it will be going right back in...These dropouts are a dealbreaker. Wondering if I got a bum unit from Uptone... I see. Well then I got nothing. Sorry. Hopefully Alex or JS will be in touch soon. Have you contacted Alex yet? Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Two thoughts Bob:a) You really need to face the LPS-1 so that you can see the LED. There really is not such thing as a "short power drop off" for the LPS-1. If overcurrent occurs, the output will drop (okay, it does not drop to zero instantly), the LED will flash red for about 4 seconds, then green to retry/test for if the load has gone down to acceptable level. It will then stay green and output full voltage if the conditions are okay. At no time during that process will the LED turn amber as you report. If that is happening, then it means your LPS-1 is going through a full reboot cycle--perhaps if the charging supply is not up to the task. b) Based on your report, it is quite possible that your CIAudio 9V supply is not up to the task. John has explained elsewhere that the sort of load the LPS-1 represents to its charging supply is variable and demanding. We do not guarantee function of the unit with third-party supplies, and the only way to properly diagnose what is going on is for you to use our supplied Mean Well 7.5V/2.93A/22W unit and to report accurately on the LED indication during operation. All the best, --Alex C. I got some fairly inexpensive Chinese linear power supplies with 30VA R-core transformers that were spec'd as over 3A into 9V. The numbers John and Alex have posted on the Uptone website is that 2A supply should be sufficient at 9V. Well, these 30VA supplies can't support an LPS-1 powering an FMC at 5V/1A. They can support powering an LPS-1 feeding my microRendu, but not the FMC with higher current demand on the LPS-1. It can charge the LPS-1 through initial boot cycle, but only makes it about 30 seconds before needing to power down and reboot. It seems to me that the amperages posted by Alex/John are not strictly true in all circumstances - either that or the Chinese LPS's that I bought can't do anywhere near what they were specified. But variable and demanding load on the charging supply certainly fits with my experiences with the LPS-1's, for sure. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 It sounds like you have some of the supplies discussed in this thread: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/discussions-alternate-energizing-charging-ps-units-use-ultracap-linear-power-supply-1-not-any-will-make-any-difference-output-30026/ See the posts by SandyK, he does a good job of laying out the real-world limitations of the supply. Greg in Mississippi Nope, I was aware of that supply being insufficient. This is the one: ZEROZONE SUPER-PSU 30VA DC9V 2.7A Linear Power supply LPS for Audio Sources | eBay Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Thanks for the dissection, Greg. Yeah, I guess I should have done more research rather than just trusting the specs on the ebay listing. I don't know Greg, did you see my pick of a JS-2 cranking out over 8A at 9V? And it was running cool. Just a bit of UpTone magic... But watch it guys or I'll move these posts over to the Discussions of Pointless Alternate LPS-1 Charging Supplies thread. Well, it's not pointless at all, unfortunately. While I know you claim the charging supply doesn't matter at all, my experience is different. I have no clear indication that the output from LPS-1 is less than clean as a whistle. However, charging with the Meanwell or other cheap SMPS definitely produces significant noise in the charging circuits of the LPS-1 that is induced into my system somehow. This is the reason I sought a cheap LPS solution to charge them. I have even heard this with my own ears coming from the chassis itself of the LPS-1. The clear sound of charging supercaps, and an audible click of the relay or whatever other mechanism switching between supercap banks. These are the very sounds that are making it into my system and can be heard through my speakers. Not sure the electrical mechanism, but it's absolutely there, and something I wish to avoid. Given my struggles with the cheapo Chinese LPS's, I'm just using my HDPlex unit at the moment to charge the LPS-1's. This is working fine and avoiding these noises. But it means my audio-related network devices (router, NAS) in the other room are without a decent LPS. Still trying to determine the best solution for those. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm very glad you enjoy the LPS-1, but on this topic--at least how you put it--we will just have to agree to disagree. First of, there is absolutely no "click" coming from the LPS-1 ever. There are no relays in it. I sit in a very quiet room half my days testing the boards at full load, watching their internal LEDs switch banks 18-inches from my face and ears. No clicks. Secondly, our supplied SMPS has just 80mV of output noise/ripple on its DC, and with the topology of the LPS-1 this can in no way whatsoever effect its charging circuit or the output. If people have a problem with SMPS units, it is on the AC side of them, but even that is minimal as the main evil an an SMPS is its leakage current--which is blocked/ignored by the LPS-1. About the ONLY plausible issue we have come across is that the present (Level VI) version of the Mean Well we ship has a 16AWG parallel "zip" wire DC cable as opposed to the Level V ones we used to get which had 16AWG coax. I think John said that the pattern of charging draw from the LPS-1 might make it so that you don't want that DC zip cable laying across your analog cables. So if you here something weird in your system when using our supplied SMPS, maybe try positioning the DC cable differently. Perhaps John will chime in at some point with a more technical perspective. Yeah, John had chimed in previously that he suspected noise finding its way into the interconnects through unshielded interconnects, produced from the Meanwell unit. I had unplugged my interconnects from amp and found the noise to be gone, so suspected he was right. And I believe I posted so on one of these threads. However, I have subsequently done a bit more experimentation. I plugged the Meanwell into a completely different outlet in the room, and with the Meanwell brick as far away from the LPS-1, and the LPS-1 as far away from the main system as any of the cords would allow. I still get the noise through my speakers. And at the same volume as when they were closer to the system. It should be quieter if John's explanation was the complete story, right? And as for your "agree to disagree" statement - that's kind of ridiculous. You're basically telling me I'm completely making up something I'm very clearly hearing!! Well, maybe I'll just have to make a quick video of the phenomenon and post it on youtube or something to prove that I'm not making something up. It's not a loud click or anything, but with my head within about 12 inches of the unit, it can be heard. And with ear up to the unit, I can hear the supercaps charging. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Very sorry to offend. Perhaps you should return your unit to us for testing. I just took a unit off the shelf (ALL orders are shipping tomorrow, 5 days ahead of schedule!), and in a dead silent room, plugged a Mean Well SMPS into it and pressed the LPS-1 right up to my ear (note to self, wipe my skin oils off before shipping that one ). I hear absolutely nothing. Can you estimate what frequency you hear with the charging? And indeed I would be VERY curious to see/hear a demonstration of any bank switching "click." Does anyone else hear any clicking or charging noises--even up close? I genuinely wish to know? Thanks, --Alex C. Ok, stuff happens with written word. No problem. And I'll see what I can do to produce it, and maybe even record it. The supercaps charge at a pretty high frequency, but my high frequency hearing isn't that good (had ears checked this summer, and I have normal to slightly above average roll-off in hearing above 10khz). But the frequency increases as the caps are charging, until they're charged, and then there's a quiet click, and the cycle starts over at a lower frequency and ascending to a higher frequency as it charges. For what it's worth, the unit charging the FMC is louder in these effects than the unit charging the microRendu. Have you listened to your units under load? Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I hear absolutely nothing. Can you estimate what frequency you hear with the charging? And indeed I would be VERY curious to see/hear a demonstration of any bank switching "click." Does anyone else hear any clicking or charging noises--even up close? I genuinely wish to know? Thanks, --Alex C. I played around a bit last night again. For some reason the high frequency charging noise was much less evident last night - with the Meanwell as feeder. I could hear it from speakers, but just barely. And I couldn't hear at all with ear next to the LPS-1. However, the clicking sound was there for sure, and actually with both the Meanwell and the HDPlex as feeders. I attempted to record with my iPad in close quarters and poor lighting. It took a few tries, not knowing exactly where the microphone is on the iPad to place close to the unit. But I was able to record the clicking - but didn't get to upload it to youtube yet. I'll try to do that tonight. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I admit to being baffled. There is not a single relay or switch inside the LPS-1, so I can't imagine what is making the sound you are hearing. Does it occur at a regular interval? I suppose if the case warms up it could make a small sound as expansion and contraction of the aluminum end panels takes place. I have a big power amp that does that when the air conditioning in my studio is on. Please keep us posted. Yeah, I believe you that there's no relay. But it's absolutely a regular interval, and in the past when the high frequency sweeping sound was audible of what I assumed were the supercaps recharging, the click sound coincided exactly with the reset of that sweep. Also, with those crappy Chinese power supplies, they have a voltage display on the front. I noticed when they were struggling to keep up with the LPS-1's, the voltage display would dip down from 9V to somewhere in the mid-3V range, then back up. In a regular interval. At least for a few cycles, until the LPS-1 finally dropped into full reboot mode. And the pace of these intervals of voltage dips corresponds to a similar pace of the clicks I'm hearing. So, I really think it's something to do with swapping between supercap banks for recharging. Will post that video if I can this evening and send you a link. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Okay, that will be fine. But I am not interested in seeing a video of an inadequate PS failing to properly "energize" an LPS-1. John has previously explained what happens during the charging cycles and why the current demand on a not-up-to-the task feeder supply cascades until both units give up. Thanks, --Alex C. When did I say I took a video of the Chinese PS? I think I pretty clearly indicated that last night I was reproducing the effect with Meanwell and HDPlex, and that's what I recorded. The Chinese PS issues were weeks ago, and they have not been used to feed the LPS-1's since then. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Sorry, I misunderstood. I assumed that the only thing to "look at" in a video would be a voltage display going down on the Chinese PS units you were speaking about in the same paragraph. And if your LPS-1 is making regular interval "clicking" sounds, then it is defective and I want to see it back. Ok, well first you denied that clicking was possible. Then you said you'd appreciate documented evidence. So, I said I'd record and post. Now you just want me to return the unit. Alright, you'll need to send me the correct address in that case. Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I seem to have gotten you upset, and for that I am sincerely sorry. I'm not upset, just frustrated by the changing story. None of these issues are in any sense a dissatisfaction with the quality of the power produced by the units. These clicks are very quiet, and only audible with ear pretty damned close to the unit. I have been playing with them more since I got home today - and in fact both units are doing the same thing. Plugging them into various devices, the pace of the clicks varies substantially with the current draw of the device being powered. Without any load, the clicks are spaced at 30 seconds apart or more. Under close to full load (powering an FMC with 1A demand), the click happens every 5ish seconds (I haven't had a stopwatch to time it yet). And microRendu is a pace in between those two. So, even though they're working very well, and I have no reason to think they are truly malfunctioning, there are these indicators that things are not so cut and dried as what you have claimed in your marketing and many posts I've read on this forum. You claim these devices are 100% immune from power supply variations having any impact at all. Well, I'm not yet convinced of that statement based on my experience with these two units. It's not that I think the direct DC output is polluted - I believe the unit is functioning as designed in terms of that. But there are ancillary system synergy elements where some other things can come into play, clearly. Either that, or there's something malfunctioning about these units that is allowing noise to be transmitted into the system. Likewise, on the clicking phenomenon. You first were claiming it was 100% impossible, so much so as to say we'd have to agree to disagree. Well, I am experiencing this with both units. In both cases, if you had said that these units are better than anything else out there, and nearly 100% immune from feeder PS qualities, and almost certainly 100% noiseless, I would have just chocked up these observations as YMMV. But your certainty in your claims has me scratching my head, because I'm experiencing subtle deviations from these absolute ideals. What's frustrating is when you deny these issues, rather than seeking to troubleshoot. And when I volunteer to document the clicking, as you invited/requested, then you turn around and want me to just return them without providing said documentation. What happens if I return them, and then you can't reproduce the effect? I would rather provide the documentation on my end so that you know what to look for, and as evidence I'm not just making things up. We're all experienced with the problem of troubleshooting periodic phenomena, such as when you bring your car to the mechanic to diagnose an issue that comes and goes, and then it doesn't reproduce itself when in the shop. I'm not sure why you would forgo the additional information and documentation if you were so committed to drilling down and troubleshooting the situation. So, basically, I'm a patient and curious guy - couldn't be an audiophile tweak-o-phile if I wasn't. And I'm kind of curious what's going on here too. These are not a major problems with your units. I'm very happy with their performance - as long as I feed them non-SMPS power, and I've taken steps to do so. Even with the additional expense of doing so, I don't think I could get better sound for the money. But when you say you want to get to the bottom of things, wanting documentation, and then reject it - yeah, that rubs the wrong way a bit. I'll be contacting you privately for your address so that I can return the units for you to troubleshoot in the flesh. Again, I'm not interested in returning for refund, I am happy with their performance. And I'd be content with keeping them in current condition, other than the fact you think something is truly defective because of this clicking business. I will look forward to their return ASAP, as they greatly improve the performance of my system. And I am also considering purchase of a third in the near future. Regards, Ben Link to comment
genjamon Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Hi Ben,I'm sorry for not replying sooner, with what is happening in my life right it is going be be days between visits to the forums. I want to try and narrow down what you are hearing, just to get it clear in my mind. Are the clicks coming from the speakers, or from the LPS-1 box itself? (or both) The "ping pong" rate changes with load current, ie with different load currents the time between bank switches changes. Higher load current produces shorter time between bank switches. Could you try different loads and see if that does in fact happen with the clicks. For example a REGEN not power anything will probably have 30 seconds or more between switching but something like the FMC might be 4-5 seconds. If this is coming through the speakers, do you have a preamp in the system? (I think I read that in one of your posts, I just want to be sure), This is rather important, there are some very strange leakage loops that can happen through preamps that can wind up significantly magnifying things happening in the system. Some of these bypass the volume control so even if the volume is turned down it is theoretically possible for high gain to happen. You might have a situation where leakage current from the feeder supply is forming a loop through the preamp. Since the feeder supply sees the current ramp up as the caps are being charged you might be hearing how it deals with things. A test for this is to listen to the "charging sound" and see if it sounds the same with either the meanWell or the other supply. If it does sound the same this is not likely to be the source. Let's see what the answers are to these questions and we'll go from there. Thanks, John S. Hi John, thanks for the message. The clicks are coming from the actual LPS-1 boxes/chassis. Right now, I have to have my ear within a few inches of the chassis to hear them. And, yes, they vary in time between clicks depending on load. Yesterday, I used a stopwatch. 5 seconds for the FMC, with LPS-1 on 5V setting, and FMC pulling about 1A. 7 seconds when I put the LPS-1 to 7V mode, powering the same FMC. Around 30 seconds spacing when there is no load on the LPS-1. The sound of the click itself isn't so much of a very clean and precise "click", it's more of a quiet "clunk" or "thunk". And I also noticed that when the device goes from its initial charge-up sequence and transitions to providing power to the device, there's a very quick triple-"clunk" as it engages the power. I do not use a preamp. I have a Lampizator Big7 DAC with an internal volume control, running directly into a Line Magnetic 518ia, into it's direct line-in which bypasses the volume control pot. However, the preamp stage in the Line Magnetic is still active in this configuration - it just bypasses the volume control pot itself. The sounds I have heard through my speakers are a combination of the "charging sound" and the clicking bank switching sound - although it doesn't sound the same as what I have heard coming from the LPS-1 chassis itself. It's a more digitized kind of sound. And I have not heard these sounds through the speakers while using linear power supplies as feeder supplies. Only with the Meanwell, and with the iFi iPower device I also have on hand. These are very quiet sounds - I can only hear them with ear close to tweeter with no music playing. However, I feel like it affects listening quality - adding a subtle digititus to high frequency sounds in music. Music is just not as relaxed and realistic when these SMPS's are used as feeders, which I attribute to these low level sounds being present. The effect is definitely in the subtle category, and I admit it's possible there's some placebo at work. But it's one of those things that makes the difference between the music being pleasant, and being toe-tapping engaging. Subtle, and hard to say for certain in a conscious sense, but there are all these other cues about the listening experience that tell me something's different. So, I've just been using a linear power supply as feeder, and all is well when this is the case. Again, I've been very pleased with the benefits these LPS-1's provide, even with these tiny attributes. My main concern in pressing these issues is that they deviate from some of the claims that have been made about these devices. It very well could be particular aspects of my system at play here, and that's what I've chalked these issues up to until now, and why I haven't pressed to return the LPS-1's for diagnostics. However, if the "clicking" really shouldn't be occurring at all and is a sign of potential faulty performance, I will certainly return for diagnostics and repair/replacement. Regards, Ben Link to comment
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