Ayre QX-5/Twenty ......There is magic in the Ayre, lol.

[ctsooner]

I found two things interesting in that review. Michael didn't find the QX benefited from optical Ethernet. Maybe I can just stick with my AQ Ethernet and keep it simple. He also didn't think the microRendu was a benefit. Ayre must have something special going on in the Ethernet input for that to be the case. Again, this would simplify my system and give me one more thing to sell to fund the QX-5 purchase, should I decide to pull the trigger.

 

the reality is that Ayre has found a way to isolate and optimize each input on this thing. They have their own Ayre power filtering built in as well as the double diamond stage for the output/sounds best balanced.

 

If you have an ethernet output or AES/EBU from the server, I'd probably try them first. I know that Ethernet can ask the server to resend a packet if it's not perfectly transferred. The USB can't do that. Yes, this DAC doesn't need much outside help and as it was built for the real world. I still may do the optical conversion as I have to get a run of cable into the room anyways and it's not expensive, but even the Melco designer told me that he's already cleaning up the signal from the input and that I won't hear a difference between the optical converted signal into the Melco (either model). Personally, I like to purchase products that are properly engineered as they will sound good with most anything. I don't need cables to EQ the sound of anything. I don't spend an arm and a leg on them and I only have one special power cord, because it was given to me. I don't hear much of a difference at all.

 

If you can afford this product and want to keep it very simple without worrying about external filters and boxes and LPS's and special 5v cut offs or external clocks (you can always try one as it's set up for it), this is the unit to get into your house and see if you love it's musicality like the rest of us who own it or who have reviewed it. Just sounds right, like the other Ayre products.

[mikey8811]

If you have an ethernet output or AES/EBU from the server, I'd probably try them first. I know that Ethernet can ask the server to resend a packet if it's not perfectly transferred. The USB can't do that. Yes, this DAC doesn't need much outside help and as it was built for the real world.

 

Pardon the ignorance but how does the ethernet input work? If I use a Macbook with a USB attached desktop WD hard drive that has my music library that is on my LAN via Wi Fi, can I stick an ethernet cable from my router on the same LAN to the QX 5's ethernet input? In other words, can I dispense with a separate streamer?

[Bootzilla]

Pardon the ignorance but how does the ethernet input work? If I use a Macbook with a USB attached desktop WD hard drive that has my music library that is on my LAN via Wi Fi, can I stick an ethernet cable from my router on the same LAN to the QX 5's ethernet input? In other words, can I dispense with a separate streamer?

 

That is the idea and that essentially how I have my PS Audio DirectStream with the Bridge II network card set up. You need server software, though, to allow the networked DAC to access the music files on your hard drive. Many people use Roon, which is awesome, but it is not free. A free program -- supported by voluntary user donations -- that I find works well is MinimServer. Google it to find the download link and installation/setup instructions.

[barrows]

I found two things interesting in that review. Michael didn't find the QX benefited from optical Ethernet. Maybe I can just stick with my AQ Ethernet and keep it simple. He also didn't think the microRendu was a benefit. Ayre must have something special going on in the Ethernet input for that to be the case. Again, this would simplify my system and give me one more thing to sell to fund the QX-5 purchase, should I decide to pull the trigger.

 

While the Ayre may not benefit from use of the µRendu vs. its built in Ethernet solution from a sound quality POV, its built in Ethernet input is limited to DSD 64 and 192 kHz PCM. The µRendu allows for playback of higher rates. I listen to quite a bit of DSD 128 and some 352.8 (aka DXD) PCM myself and would not want to be limited.

[Ultrarunner]

While the Ayre may not benefit from use of the µRendu vs. its built in Ethernet solution from a sound quality POV, its built in Ethernet input is limited to DSD 64 and 192 kHz PCM. The µRendu allows for playback of higher rates. I listen to quite a bit of DSD 128 and some 352.8 (aka DXD) PCM myself and would not want to be limited.

 

Good point, although I suspect Ayre could increase rates through a firmware upgrade in future. From what I know it's not a hardware limitation.

 

However, the microRendu also offers lots of flexibility in operating modes. I use Squeezelite which allows excellent integration of Spotify and Folder mode. Folder mode is important to me since a lot of my music is WAV with minimal or no tagging with carefully selected album art. I don't even know if the App that controls the Ayre has this option.

[ctsooner]

You can use Usb and it will sound great also. All inputs have been maximized. I'm using a few and love them all. I use the app that Ayre recommends mcontrol is what they call it I believe and it's free too. Apple never needs drivers so it's easy

 

 

Good point, although I suspect Ayre could increase rates through a firmware upgrade in future. From what I know it's not a hardware limitation.

 

However, the microRendu also offers lots of flexibility in operating modes. I use Squeezelite which allows excellent integration of Spotify and Folder mode. Folder mode is important to me since a lot of my music is WAV with minimal or no tagging with carefully selected album art. I don't even know if the App that controls the Ayre has this option.

[Ultrarunner]

You can use Usb and it will sound great also. All inputs have been maximized. I'm using a few and love them all. I use the app that Ayre recommends mcontrol is what they call it I believe and it's free too. Apple never needs drivers so it's easy

 

Does the app have a Folder mode?

[mikey8811]

That is the idea and that essentially how I have my PS Audio DirectStream with the Bridge II network card set up. You need server software, though, to allow the networked DAC to access the music files on your hard drive. Many people use Roon, which is awesome, but it is not free. A free program -- supported by voluntary user donations -- that I find works well is MinimServer. Google it to find the download link and installation/setup instructions.

I remember you from the Directstream forums. Are you thinking of moving on from that? From what I have read here it seems the QX 5 does not need a separate streamer like the Aries I am using. Ditto for the USB fixes, separate USB cables/ links and power supplies if you go the Ethernet route. So all in some savings vs most DACs although it costs more than the Directstream. I guess if it works with Minimserver, it will work with Logitech Media Server too and I have that from old Squeezebox days.

 

I am wondering if it has more midrange richness than the Directstream.

[Audio]

With the Ayre QX-5 , I am starting to take things away. The Melco server is now bypassed.....switched off.

 

My music server sits in a spare bedroom and it optically link to Ayre and PS-Audio via optic fiber. All network cables now go direct to the fiber switch / media converter.

 

(1) Ethernet - I use Cablerack media convertors, the end at the rack, I have a dual STP and dual RJ45 unit. This feed the Ayre QX-5 and the PS-Audio Directstream via 2 individual AudioQuest Diamond ethernet cables. I use yellow LC-LC 1310nm fiber. At the server end, the CU network port will be upgraded to a fiber NIC card soon (Allied Telesis)

 

(2) USB - I use the Adnaco fiber to USB hub (S3 kit). It comes with a STP card to be installed in your music server and the fiber runs from this onboard card to the rack onto a USB Hub. The Hub offers 2 USB connections to your equipment. I use Siltech Classic USB for the Ayre and a Wirewire Silver Starlight for the Directstream. Adnaco kit uses ordinary orange LC-LC fiber.

 

Big difference between listening on USB and Ethernet on the QX-5....I prefer the ethernet especially if you seek the midrange richness.

 

(Audio)

[mikey8811]

With the Ayre QX-5 , I am starting to take things away. The Melco server is now bypassed.....switched off.

 

My music server sits in a spare bedroom and it optically link to Ayre and PS-Audio via optic fiber. All network cables now go direct to the fiber switch / media converter.

 

(1) Ethernet - I use Cablerack media convertors, the end at the rack, I have a dual STP and dual RJ45 unit. This feed the Ayre QX-5 and the PS-Audio Directstream via 2 individual AudioQuest Diamond ethernet cables. I use yellow LC-LC 1310nm fiber. At the server end, the CU network port will be upgraded to a fiber NIC card soon (Allied Telesis)

 

(2) USB - I use the Adnaco fiber to USB hub (S3 kit). It comes with a STP card to be installed in your music server and the fiber runs from this onboard card to the rack onto a USB Hub. The Hub offers 2 USB connections to your equipment. I use Siltech Classic USB for the Ayre and a Wirewire Silver Starlight for the Directstream. Adnaco kit uses ordinary orange LC-LC fiber.

 

Big difference between listening on USB and Ethernet on the QX-5....I prefer the ethernet especially if you seek the midrange richness.

 

(Audio)

 

Thanks Audio.

 

OK so comparing apples and apples ie. Directstream and QX 5 respectively on USB and ethernet, would you say overall the QX 5 has more midrange richness and bloom?

[Bootzilla]

I remember you from the Directstream forums. Are you thinking of moving on from that? From what I have read here it seems the QX 5 does not need a separate streamer like the Aries I am using. Ditto for the USB fixes, separate USB cables/ links and power supplies if you go the Ethernet route. So all in some savings vs most DACs although it costs more than the Directstream. I guess if it works with Minimserver, it will work with Logitech Media Server too and I have that from old Squeezebox days.

 

I am wondering if it has more midrange richness than the Directstream.

The DS does not need a separate streamer if you add the Bridge II network card to it. I doubt the QX-5 would work with LMS, but check with Ayre to be sure. I am thinking about a QX-5 as a DS replacement, but the DS sounds so good that I fear it could be a lateral move -- a different sound but not necessarily better. I am also on the fence due to the MQA issue discussed above. MQA seems like vaporware now, but who knows what the future will bring?

[barrows]

Good point, although I suspect Ayre could increase rates through a firmware upgrade in future. From what I know it's not a hardware limitation.

 

However, the microRendu also offers lots of flexibility in operating modes. I use Squeezelite which allows excellent integration of Spotify and Folder mode. Folder mode is important to me since a lot of my music is WAV with minimal or no tagging with carefully selected album art. I don't even know if the App that controls the Ayre has this option.

 

As the Ayre uses a third party hardware solution, rather than their own implementation, i would not assume that it could be updated to achieve higher sample rates. Typically, and Ethernet receiver requires both more processing power and more memory capability in order to achieve the higher sampling rates. The µRendu was specifically developed from he hardware perspective to be capable of higher rates, unlike many third party Ethernet hardware solutions.

[bluebeat]

I'm interested in a comparison between the QX-5 and the TotalDac d1 Dual dac. If someone has compared or will compare them... please share ?

[audio.bill]

I'm interested in a comparison between the QX-5 and the TotalDac d1 Dual dac. If someone has compared or will compare them... please share ?

The Audiostream review makes some direct comparisons between the sonic performance of the QX-5 and TotalDac D1-six.

[bluebeat]

Hi audio.bill,

Thanks. Yeah, I saw that. That triggered my question. The Six should be better, significantly so, than the Dual, looking at the price difference. Hence my curiosity for the comparison between the Dual and the QX-5.

[nfnc]

Reading between the lines, it appears that he is saying that it is better, but whether the incremental difference is worth the additional $8000+ is up to the individual listener.

 

Michael's statement, "I very seriously doubt that anyone who spends real time with the Ayre will feel regret" is interesting. Would there be regret with the D1-Six? Who knows?

 

Btw, I understand that the D1-Four is out - similarly priced as the D1-Dual.

[bluebeat]

Thanks, didn't know about the d1-Four. Nothing on the TotalDac site yet. I guess that means more secondhand d1 Duals will become available...

[ctsooner]

Right now you have to spend at least twice as much as the QX5 to get incrementally better sound and from what I have been told the sound is truly incrementally better and many still may like the Ayre better. As for going up against the PS Audio Directstream latest model, you really need to get both in and spend the time to figure out if it's for you or not.

 

Personally, I didn't find it close. For ME in MY system (just want to make sure folks realize this is only my opinion) the Ayre was much better in all aspects. It's so revealing with it's micro and macro detail. I think part of that might be that Ayre spends so much time and money filtering the incoming electrical. Then they spend so much time keeping all the inputs and outputs isolated from each other and inside the unit they get rid of noise wherever they can and that's why the noise floor is just so low. Very few companies do analog output as good as their new double diamond circuit implementation. There is a reason their gear is always mentioned by owners and reviewers as being so 'correct' in it's presentation. I was a huge tube guy. I love how properly implemented tube gear sounds. Aesthetix gear is unreal (I'm actually selling my Rhea as it's time to focus only on digital at this point in my life). I have owned and loved Jadis and Quicksilver gear along with CJ, Counterpoint and AR. I am loving all my Ayre gear as it's neither tube nor SS. It's just correct. It conveys music and emotion.

 

The QX5 does the same for me. I've yet to hear one bad thing about it from folks who have heard a burned in unit. That's RARE. I speak with a ton of folks both on and offline. I have a friend who calls me on occasions and asks advice. He got the Codex, but I warned him that the QX5 is special. He was able to get it into his system for a few hours and heard the difference. He had to reset his speakers and got some neutral Audioquest cables in and it made the WORLD of difference (yes, set up and room is very important). Oh, he also took down a bunch of expensive room treatment from the walls and ceiling (wife was happy about this) and THAT opened things up too. It's amazing how much room damping folks do when they bring in 'pros' to help them. I'm not trying to veer off topic, but wanted to put this all in perspective.

 

He then put the QX5 in and it just opened up a new window into the musical experience. Yes, he'll be getting the QX5 soon. I"ve read in this thread and also in threads on two other sites about the QX5 that folks are switching over to it from many of the well known and respected DAC's that have recently been updated etc... I think it's because Ayre just captures the emotion that others don't get quite right. They are focusing on accuracy etc... and not the emotion. Ayre is getting more detail with that low noise floor and that's a big reason the emotion is there. I may be way off, but it makes sense and many I speak with feel they are hearing details they haven't heard before. Personally the dCS gear is a bit dry for me. That's the only reason I like the Ayre better. I know many of you will disagree and that's cool and why we are all so passionate about our audio, but I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. dCS does some things that are very special and that stack that I've heard a few times really does things that most other DAC's dream of doing, but personally I would need to get it into my own system and listen back and forth because I'm so emotionally involved with my music in a way I haven't been for a long time (albums).

 

I'm starting to get to the broken in state and even using wifi to stream Tidal directly to the QX5 using Mconnect controller, it's sounding outstanding. When I play from my rebuild mac mini drive, forget it. VEILS are lifted and the music gets dialed up.

 

I have yet to hear negatives so far. I've moved on from looking for other DAC's, but I will still listen to everything that comes out because it's fun and part of the hobby, but the bar has been lifted for me and I'm appreciative.

[Audio]

Thanks Audio.

 

OK so comparing apples and apples ie. Directstream and QX 5 respectively on USB and ethernet, would you say overall the QX 5 has more midrange richness and bloom?

 

I always advise audiophile not to judge by just listening to the tonal quality of the equipment.

 

Listen for the details of the instruments and the voice. Listen for the pinpoint position accuracy of the instruments and the voice. These are qualities you either get or you don't get on a piece of audio gear.

 

On USB and Ethernet comparison with PS Audio Directstream and Ayre QX-5, the results has been consistent, Ethernet on my system sounds more natural. If you listen to USB, it is still pretty awesome especially when you don't compare. It is as much a "apple to apple" comparison as both USB and Ethernet are fibre linked to my music server.

 

(Audio)

[ctsooner]

Well put. I have always listened to the music and not the equipment, but I do listen to how different the music sounds when I switch a piece of equipment. Sibilance, pre and post percussive, micro and macro dynamics and detail, is the presentation of soundstage and image what you perceive when you are at a live event....so yes, you either get that or don't or you get gradients of it. Based on a few folk I trust who are heavily into the fiber optics etc, they have all said the QX5 doesn't really sound different either way.

 

Ayre says that all inputs are optimized and it seems like that's correct. As I"ve stated in posts, even my toslink TV connection sounds better than ever and I used to use a device that rechecked things etc, but it really sound great now and I have had that old device in and out of my system....guess what I'm about to put on the market? lol. I"m just blown away with what they've been able to accomplish at this price point. I know it's not quite ref quality, but for me you really do need to spend twice or more and even then you aren't always getting better sound. I do like this more than I've liked the Rossini with external clock and many discredit me and my opinions when I state that, but the Ayre is more natural and fuller all around. It's that glorious and realistic midrange that does it as the dCS units have always been a bit dry to my ears. The most accurate devices, maybe, but dry for me. I really feel that it's their incredible implementation of their analog and double diamond circuit, but in reality, it's everything.

 

I have been in touch with many off line who have auditioned the QX5 and most are purchasing one after auditioning much more expensive DAC's. That tells me they have hit a home run and like the Codex, priced it at half of market value.

I always advise audiophile not to judge by just listening to the tonal quality of the equipment.

 

Listen for the details of the instruments and the voice. Listen for the pinpoint position accuracy of the instruments and the voice. These are qualities you either get or you don't get on a piece of audio gear.

 

On USB and Ethernet comparison with PS Audio Directstream and Ayre QX-5, the results has been consistent, Ethernet on my system sounds more natural. If you listen to USB, it is still pretty awesome especially when you don't compare. It is as much a "apple to apple" comparison as both USB and Ethernet are fibre linked to my music server.

 

(Audio)

[loudog]

qx5/20 updates soon... new usb and ethernet implementations.

 

[ufoerp]

i heard that USB2 has DSD512 native and DSD256 dop? 

[Ryan Berry]

On 10/5/2021 at 8:51 PM, ufoerp said:

i heard that USB2 has DSD512 native and DSD256 dop? 

 

That's correct.  PCM up to 768, so effectively double in all counts from what the original USB was capable of.  We also further improved the isolation between the USB section and the DAC and implemented a method to eliminate jitter between the two circuits.  Overall, the sound is appreciably better in all formats as well as having greater capabilities.  If you have any questions, feel free to send me an email or message any time.