Ayre QX-5/Twenty ......There is magic in the Ayre, lol.

[ctsooner]

Ok, going direct if OFF the table after discussing with Ayre. Having a better volume control on the AX5 Twenty than is on the QX5 Twenty will give me better sound. It's not a huge difference I was told and those going direct will have GREAT sound and it's worth it if they don't have a better sounding pre, but the AX 5 pre is a GREAT pre and not worth taking out of the system. Back to sending it in to have the low pass filter installed in the AX5 rather than use the external Vandersteen crossover when that time comes most probably.

[Dr Tone]

Ok, going direct if OFF the table after discussing with Ayre. Having a better volume control on the AX5 Twenty than is on the QX5 Twenty will give me better sound. It's not a huge difference I was told and those going direct will have GREAT sound and it's worth it if they don't have a better sounding pre, but the AX 5 pre is a GREAT pre and not worth taking out of the system. Back to sending it in to have the low pass filter installed in the AX5 rather than use the external Vandersteen crossover when that time comes most probably.

 

I think we all know the preamp in the AX-5 or KX-5 is going to be better. A subjective opinion on how much better was what I was looking for.

 

Major improvement would mean possibly the AX-5 and QX-5 purchase right away.

Minor would mean possible the VX-5 and QX-5 purchase with the option to add the KX-5 later.

 

My biggest problem is I can't audition the AX-5, my dealer doesn't bring them in as they don't sell in comparison to the VX-5/KX-5 combo.

[ctsooner]

I think we all know the preamp in the AX-5 or KX-5 is going to be better. A subjective opinion on how much better was what I was looking for.

 

Major improvement would mean possibly the AX-5 and QX-5 purchase right away.

Minor would mean possible the VX-5 and QX-5 purchase with the option to add the KX-5 later.

 

My biggest problem is I can't audition the AX-5, my dealer doesn't bring them in as they don't sell in comparison to the VX-5/KX-5 combo.

 

Tone, the question is how much do you want to spend to get a bit of extra better SQ? IF you have the AX or the KX then don't get rid of them and use their outstanding volume control. If you DON'T have that great a pre, then by all means use the QX5 and add a KX in the future if you feel you need to. You probably will never know the difference as the QX volume control is still better than 95% of the preamps on the market right now.

 

It's high end audio and there are subtle differences. Some are very noticeable, but that's because it's so expensive to have a KXR preamp. The KX5 Twenty is a bargain in the high end and the AX is also a major bargin for all you get. Some have a problem with me calling these bargins, but for what you get, they really are.

[Dr Tone]

Tone, the question is how much do you want to spend to get a bit of extra better SQ? IF you have the AX or the KX then don't get rid of them and use their outstanding volume control. If you DON'T have that great a pre, then by all means use the QX5 and add a KX in the future if you feel you need to. You probably will never know the difference as the QX volume control is still better than 95% of the preamps on the market right now.

 

It's high end audio and there are subtle differences. Some are very noticeable, but that's because it's so expensive to have a KXR preamp. The KX5 Twenty is a bargain in the high end and the AX is also a major bargin for all you get. Some have a problem with me calling these bargins, but for what you get, they really are.

 

Nothing in this price range is a bargain.

 

I own no Ayre gear right now so all options are open. AX-5 is a complete blind buy and not something I'm willing to do new at that price. I could get an idea of the AX-5 by borrowing my dealer's KX-5 and VX-5 but that's not really apples to apples either.

 

I ultimately want KX-5, VX-5 & QX-5 but don't have $30,000 CDN do that all at once right now.

[ctsooner]

Many will disagree with me but I liked the AX5 Twenty better than the separated. Maybe a smudge less dynamic but there was something about the sound that blew me away. It's Alonso much less money and I am using that for the QX5. If you are starting from scratch you really want to consider the AX5 if it fits your needs.

[Blackstone]

AX5 cuts one set of interconnect cable out of the equation...which is a HUGE advantage.

 

I would get the AX but for the price. I need speakers too.

[sjay]

AX5 cuts one set of interconnect cable out of the equation...which is a HUGE advantage.

 

I would get the AX but for the price. I need speakers too.

 

The extra power in the separates alone makes them worth it to me because my 91db efficient speakers lap that extra bit of pure power up like a man would a 30 yr old whisky . Then there's the separate chassis benefits...the list goes on.

 

The KX/VX combo is considered next level because it is.

 

All that said, i am looking forward to comparing the QX5 to my current MSB stack but I dont expect the QX to beat it.

[ctsooner]

I've had the separates in the system as well as the AX. Honestly, I went with pure SQ and the AX won. The power/current difference isn't huge. Again, I know plenty who feel the separates sound better, but you have to use a very expensive balanced cable to get that. Again, either way is great sound and we are talking about small increments.

 

Blackstone, I agree with what you are doing. I already have a volume control that bests the QX, so it makes the most sense for me to keep that.

 

IRT the MSB stack vs the QX I think it will be interesting. I like that MSB a lot. I mean a whole lot. I have a couple for friends who use one, but I'm not quite as familiar with it as I'd like to be. Going on memory, which is darn near impossible, I feel the QX is at least right there and for me maybe a bit more musical. This Ayre just nails that part of things. They use so little digital filtering and the double diamond circuit is very very difficult to best for MY ears. Can't wait for you to listen to both.

 

The extra power in the separates alone makes them worth it to me because my 91db efficient speakers lap that extra bit of pure power up like a man would a 30 yr old whisky . Then there's the separate chassis benefits...the list goes on.

 

The KX/VX combo is considered next level because it is.

 

All that said, i am looking forward to comparing the QX5 to my current MSB stack but I dont expect the QX to beat it.

[joeinid]

ctsooner,

 

Can you or anyone recommend the optimal input to use on the QX5 for the best sound quality? I see most everyone talk about or use the Melco servers. Can a unit like the Lumin U1 server or Aurender N10 (?) compete with or beat the Melco? The servers that I mention have primarily USB and AES/EBU outputs.

 

I have a Lumin S1 which is an all in one streamer/dac and I love it. I'm trying to understand how the QX5 and all its inputs would compare.

 

Thank you for some guidance.

[Audio]

I just got a QX-5 over the weekend and I have setup it up temporary into my main system yesterday. It turned into 4 hours of listening bliss.

 

There are 2 other DACs in my main system. The Lumin S-1, which is my reference and the PS Audio Directstream. There is no need to compare, the SQ on the QX-5 is superior.....weight, transparency , detailed, no grain!! Also, the other 2 DACs have transformer coupled output, the QX-5 is solid state direct output...you can hear the the difference when it comes to those extreme low notes.

 

Also there is a significant difference between input 9 (USB) and input (10) Network. USB tends to be "leaner and finer" than Net but I like the slight denser quality of the music the ethernet input is giving.

 

Music server is a i7 5960X machine, fibre coupled to a Melco feeding USB and clean ethernet to my DACs in the main rack. I am using KX-R and MX-R Twenty. Speakers are Thiel 3.7.

 

(Audio)

[joeinid]

Audio,

 

Thank you so much for your opinion. Now that's saying something.

[ctsooner]

Audio, thanks so much for sharing. The most important part if knowing the whole system. Between you, Blackstone and me, we are all using totally different speakers from Thiel to B&W to Vandersteen. I now have well over 100 hours on my QX5 and it's really starting to open up a bit and the bass is tightening up. I have yet to hear any grain, other than in the first 10 hours of break in. It's slowly waning. The stage is just rock solid in all directions. Voices and instruments are at the right level and the location never wavers like in most systems. I'm actually shocked at what this DAC is doing. I had a Rossini w/o clock in the system for an overnight and it was really really nice, but didn't do it for me. I have had the Berkley ref 2 in and to me it's not in the same ball park. I know some will argue, but in speaking with a couple of dealers who sell both Berkley and Ayre (not the dealers I usually work with either), they both say they won't be able to sell Berkley anymore.

 

As for inputs, Alex at Ayre says all are optimized. The thing is that every system will be different. It's the nature of the digital beast I've found. Personally, everyone I know is using the Melco direct via the isolated ethernet connection directly into the QX5. If you can keep these units OFF the internet, then it's going to sound it's best. If you want to stream (like I do), then you have to figure out if you want use the QX5 or the Melco as the streamer. I'm going to listen to both and see which I like best. I know in speaking with the person who designed both Melco NAS's, that he has optimized getting rid of noise at ever step and feels strongly that it will sound it's best with the Melco directly connected to the internet and using his device to stream as well as serve via it's hard drives. He feels strongly that using their (or someone elses) ethernet 7 or 8 fast cable will give the best results. Most I speak with who are setting up optical systems say that using a good ethernet 8 cable with excellent connectors is fine and will not make a huge difference in sound if at all. Audioquest Vodka is a nice choice as well as Melco's Cat 7 I believe they are. I'm going to get Cat 8 just because it's faster and it doesn't cost any more that I can ascertain. I have been loaned a nice Audioquest Diamond USB cable for a good friend and I'm using it from my rebuilt Mac Mini and it's giving me incredible sound. As I've stated in the past, this is Steve Nugents former show server that uses a Paul Hynes power supply and a completely rebuilt Mac for optimal noise rejection etc... It's sound beats the Aurender TOTL servers IMHO (as well as many others) as well as the Antipodes and any other server I've heard to date. I haven't really had it up against the Melco, but I'm sure it's close. I just want the east of the Melco as well as the look so that's why I'm going to sell the Mac and rip the high res music and copy it to the Melco first so the next owner of the Mac can enjoy a ton of show recorded tunes, lol.

 

The ethernet connection will ask for the server to resend packets that aren't sent perfectly. The USB connection can't do that and I think that's one reason it will sound better, but I don't know. I have always felt that the AES/EBU connections vs USB aren't close on servers that offer both. Aurender charges you 8k more than the N10 to give you this balanced connection. I believe it's the only difference in the two units and the balanced connection crushes the USB. Those are probably more favorite two connections I've heard when discussing DAC and servers. I have LOVED the Trinity ref in the past and that was a USB connection if I recall correctly. Again, implementation and if Alex says all his connections are optimized, who am I to say they aren't all as good as each other. I'll be going with the Melco interpretation which says their ethernet connections direct to the DAC is their best connection.

 

Audio,

 

Thank you so much for your opinion. Now that's saying something.

[shaq]

I just got a QX-5 over the weekend and I have setup it up temporary into my main system yesterday. It turned into 4 hours of listening bliss.

 

There are 2 other DACs in my main system. The Lumin S-1, which is my reference and the PS Audio Directstream. There is no need to compare, the SQ on the QX-5 is superior.....weight, transparency , detailed, no grain!! Also, the other 2 DACs have transformer coupled output, the QX-5 is solid state direct output...you can hear the the difference when it comes to those extreme low notes.

 

Also there is a significant difference between input 9 (USB) and input (10) Network. USB tends to be "leaner and finer" than Net but I like the slight denser quality of the music the ethernet input is giving.

 

Music server is a i7 5960X machine, fibre coupled to a Melco feeding USB and clean ethernet to my DACs in the main rack. I am using KX-R and MX-R Twenty. Speakers are Thiel 3.7.

 

(Audio)

What other DACs did you consider? I have an original Berkeley DAC series one and a am ready to buy a more up to date DAC up some sort. Id like to hear options you evaluated if there are some.

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Blackstone]

I have now had a chance to compare the QX-5 Twenty direct into a VX-5 Twenty power amp in preamp mode, against the QX-5 Twenty into a KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty. There is absolutely no question adding the KX-5 Twenty was quite a bit bitter than running the QX-5 Twenty straight into the amp and I am now operating under the assumption that if I did buy a new amp to pair with a QX-5 Twenty, I would get the AX-5 Twenty precisely for its built in pre. I probably underestimated how much the preamp brings to the table. It just adds a tremendous amount of body and fullness to the sound and makes everything a lot more emotionally involving. It is not that the preamp on the QX-5 is not good, it is just that the KX-5 Twenty is so much better. Myself personally, I would probably get the AX-5 Twenty, and not the VX-5 Twenty. In my opinion, straight into the amp as a long term solution is not really an option after hearing how good the KX-5 is. The all Ayre sytem was absolutely to die for though. Speakers were B&W 802Ds.

[ctsooner]

We spoke about that as you remember. I quickly did a pass through to listen both ways and I honestly switched back and will never switch again. It's not even close in any category. Folks are telling me how direct is my dynamic than my AX5....I say wrong. Not even close. The texture and micro and macro dynamics get lost compared to direct mode. If you are just staring off and only can afford the VX5 Twenty and a QX5 Twenty, then do it and then add the pre later. I know how much you love the B&W's, but I really need to get you to have a listen to the Vandersteens. After speaking with you also, I think you'll find them so musical with the Ayre gear that you will forget work and listen for days, lol. I'd love to hear your opinion of the B&W vs the Vandersteen in your dealers showroom and then get your thought's as well as Scott's, whom I'll meet on my next trip to Chitown. Just being a fanboy for a bit ....

 

I have now had a chance to compare the QX-5 Twenty direct into a VX-5 Twenty power amp in preamp mode, against the QX-5 Twenty into a KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty. There is absolutely no question adding the KX-5 Twenty was quite a bit bitter than running the QX-5 Twenty straight into the amp and I am now operating under the assumption that if I did buy a new amp to pair with a QX-5 Twenty, I would get the AX-5 Twenty precisely for its built in pre. I probably underestimated how much the preamp brings to the table. It just adds a tremendous amount of body and fullness to the sound and makes everything a lot more emotionally involving. It is not that the preamp on the QX-5 is not good, it is just that the KX-5 Twenty is so much better. Myself personally, I would probably get the AX-5 Twenty, and not the VX-5 Twenty. In my opinion, straight into the amp as a long term solution is not really an option after hearing how good the KX-5 is. The all Ayre sytem was absolutely to die for though. Speakers were B&W 802Ds.

[Dr Tone]

I have now had a chance to compare the QX-5 Twenty direct into a VX-5 Twenty power amp in preamp mode, against the QX-5 Twenty into a KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty. There is absolutely no question adding the KX-5 Twenty was quite a bit bitter than running the QX-5 Twenty straight into the amp and I am now operating under the assumption that if I did buy a new amp to pair with a QX-5 Twenty, I would get the AX-5 Twenty precisely for its built in pre. I probably underestimated how much the preamp brings to the table. It just adds a tremendous amount of body and fullness to the sound and makes everything a lot more emotionally involving. It is not that the preamp on the QX-5 is not good, it is just that the KX-5 Twenty is so much better. Myself personally, I would probably get the AX-5 Twenty, and not the VX-5 Twenty. In my opinion, straight into the amp as a long term solution is not really an option after hearing how good the KX-5 is. The all Ayre sytem was absolutely to die for though. Speakers were B&W 802Ds.

 

Thanks for the comparison report.

[Blackstone]

I bought the 802Ds from Audio Consultants-Hinsdale. I needed a fuller range speaker and they had a used pair. Very reasonable and wife even approved. We got back to the sound I was looking for once the kx-5 was in the loop. It won't sound like that at home but the future potential is there.

 

I sort of stick with brands AC carries because they know the whole system and they know me.

 

After hearing the KX-5 today I think I might be an Ayre fanboy after all!

[nfnc]

I have now had a chance to compare the QX-5 Twenty direct into a VX-5 Twenty power amp in preamp mode, against the QX-5 Twenty into a KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty. There is absolutely no question adding the KX-5 Twenty was quite a bit bitter than running the QX-5 Twenty straight into the amp and I am now operating under the assumption that if I did buy a new amp to pair with a QX-5 Twenty, I would get the AX-5 Twenty precisely for its built in pre. I probably underestimated how much the preamp brings to the table. It just adds a tremendous amount of body and fullness to the sound and makes everything a lot more emotionally involving. It is not that the preamp on the QX-5 is not good, it is just that the KX-5 Twenty is so much better. Myself personally, I would probably get the AX-5 Twenty, and not the VX-5 Twenty. In my opinion, straight into the amp as a long term solution is not really an option after hearing how good the KX-5 is. The all Ayre sytem was absolutely to die for though. Speakers were B&W 802Ds.

 

Thank you for sharing this. Very helpful.

 

I was wondering about the possibility of going direct too, should I get the QX5/20 in future. Did you ever have a chance to compare the AX-5/20 vs the KX-5/20 + VX-5/20?

[Blackstone]

Thank you for sharing this. Very helpful.

 

I was wondering about the possibility of going direct too, should I get the QX5/20 in future. Did you ever have a chance to compare the AX-5/20 vs the KX-5/20 + VX-5/20?

 

Well, sort of. I heard the KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty with the 802D with the QX-5 in DAC mode. I heard the AX-5 Twenty with the 803D3 with the QX-5 in DAC mode. Two different systems and two different rooms with very different speakers. I also heard AX-5 Twenty with Ariel 7T (I think) fed by a dCS Puccini with word clock in yet another room. Each system was very different

 

It is not a direct comparison because the rooms and speakers are too different. So I would not dare draw any conclusions. The 803D3 with AX-5 Twenty was lighter and airier, but that is a smaller, brighter speaker, I believe. The 802D with the KX/VX combo was warmer, but perhaps a shade less precise, less pinpoint but I attribute that to the bigger, warmer speaker. I can tell you that the KX/VX combo was much, much closer what I heard from the AX-5 than running direct from the DAC into the VX-5 Twenty. The speakers are so different that I don't even want to speculate about the electronics in fear of disseminating misleading information. It is totally a tossup in my mind right now.

 

It might be more of a question of upgrade path than raw performance. But I am usually wrong on just about everything. I know if I had either configuration I would be listening instead of typing right now, and LOUD!

[joeinid]

Has anyone directly compared the Ayre KXR twenty to the KX5 twenty? I'm curious how you think the KX5 twenty stacks up against the more expensive KXR twenty and if the KX5 is still competitive?

[Blackstone]

Has anyone directly compared the Ayre KXR twenty to the KX5 twenty? I'm curious how you think the KX5 twenty stacks up against the more expensive KXR twenty and if the KX5 is still competitive?

 

A guy I know has the MX-R Twenty monoblocks and the KX-5 Twenty in his system. He said he tried the KX-R Twenty but the KX-5 Twenty was already doing like 80% of what the KX-R was doing. So he estimated it is 20% better and kept the KX-5 Twenty in place. I think that might even be Ayre's position. I don't think they even hold out the R series to be that much better than the 5 series. In fact they seem to emphasize how much of the tech trickles down into the lower products.

 

When I first heard the original KX-R, I was astounded. It made an impression within the first few notes on the piano. What I heard from the KX-5 today was not that far off. But I don't think I have actually heard the KX-R Twenty​ myself.

[joeinid]

Thank you so much, sorry for the off topic diversion. I appreciate your response.

[ctsooner]

Thank you so much, sorry for the off topic diversion. I appreciate your response.

 

So many things in this thread. First off congrats on your new speakers and I'm sure you will love them. Awesome and I'm really happy for you. Yes, having a dealer you trust (I love Johnny at Audio Connections in NJ) is most important. If you are ever unhappy they will take care of you. They kind of have too, lol.....based on what I've heard about Scott, he's a great guy. Happy for you....

 

As for auditioning the top Ayre gear....I have the AX5/Twenty. I have extensive listening to the full reference stack as well as the Twenty 5 series as I was looking at the separates. I also LOVE the VXR Twenty (stereo ref amp).

 

The house sound, if there is one for electronics that are neither tube, nor SS in their sound. They just get it right musically. The micro and macro dynamics are there in spades and they give you that emotional connection. If you aren't getting that in your system, then it's most probably on your speakers or source. I have put the 5 series up against the Dagastino Ref amps/preamp as well as the Boulder stack. They weren't quite up to the Boulders, but this is the 5 series. When we put the KXR and MXR in the system, I liked it as much. It was better in some areas, but the Boulder did some things a bit better. The Boulder was twice the price I bet, if not more (I didn't even look, but it was their top of the line and a lot of boxes, lol). The Ayre was right there, but the Boulder has more power and drive. The speakers were the Wilson XLF's, which I don't like at all, but it was the best I've heard them sound.

 

The 5 series will get you 90% of the sound of the ref gear. It just doesn't have the drive of the ref stuff as it's half the wattage and current. What speakers are you driving? You may not need the 300 watts, but if you do, then maybe you do need the ref stack.

 

As for the KXR vs the KX5 Twenty series both, both are world class preamps. The differences at this level are minimal. They are there as the ref gear will give you incrementally better sound, but they will cost you a lot of money to get there. Again, what is the rest of your system? I've seen too many folks buying top of the line amps in anyone's line and wasting their money as their speakers, room and source just aren't up to speed with the amps.

 

Personally, if you go over your room and make sure it sounds as good as it can, then you can upgrade from there. Heck, I was able to put up a few really nice looking quilts where I was getting first side reflections and then moved my albums to the back where they break up the far reflections. The room is still lively, but not too much so and it's not dead. I've found that too many folks go crazy with room tuning and deaden the room. Then they chase their tails and spend ridiculous money buying and selling to fix something that can't be fixed. Just like folks who buy an amp or speaker and then buy a cable to 'TUNE" the sound. That's BS. Well designed products don't need tuning and will sound their best with the most neutral cables like Audioquest or Cardas.

 

Sorry for posting more than you wanted and even though it's my opinion, most in the industry would tell you the same thing.

 

The AX5 Twenty won't give you quite the power that the 5 separates will give you, but to me it sounds better in a few areas and that's because the preamp in the AX is a simpler design and there is no need for interconnects between the two components. The separates can be a bit more dynamic, but not as much as some may think. It will let you change things out later if you want to, but if I get to that point, I'll probably just sell and upgrade from there based on needs as I love integrated amps in my room for looks and ease of use. (disclaimer).

[joeinid]

Hi CT,

 

Thank you for your honest opinion and advice. I do appreciate it. I have the MXR-20's and don't need the power but absolutely love my amps. I have SF Strads and JBL 4367's. Both wonderful. I had and sold the KX5-20 thinking I'd automatically get the KXR-20 and this was before I was able to buy the MXR-20's. Now that I don't have the KX5-20 anymore, I miss it and think I will just replace it. To get to the KXR-20 will take more than I want to spend or can spend at this point. Ayre is my destination gear. I absolutely love it after owning many other high end pieces. Part of me wanting the KXR-20 is just because it's Ayre's best preamp but I think I am more realistic now.

[ctsooner]

With what you have, the KXR would be the best choice most probably. You'd maximize everything, however if you can only get the KX5 Twenty, then it's the way to go. Honestly, the QX5 Twenty is one GREAT DAC. Personally, it hits so high above it's price point that Ayre that I feel Ayre is redefining what DAC's should cost. That Codex is a KILLER and should be thousands more and I'm not the only one who feels that way. I've heard it in a ref system with the Vandersteen 7 mk2's and the Ayre ref stack.. Also heard it with the Audio Research Ref 6 pre and Ref 150's I believe it was. It just kept showing off more and more.

 

The QX5 Twenty is taking my system to places it hasn't been. I had a great and well respected DAC before this and it's not even close between the two and the prices are the same.

 

Hi CT,

 

Thank you for your honest opinion and advice. I do appreciate it. I have the MXR-20's and don't need the power but absolutely love my amps. I have SF Strads and JBL 4367's. Both wonderful. I had and sold the KX5-20 thinking I'd automatically get the KXR-20 and this was before I was able to buy the MXR-20's. Now that I don't have the KX5-20 anymore, I miss it and think I will just replace it. To get to the KXR-20 will take more than I want to spend or can spend at this point. Ayre is my destination gear. I absolutely love it after owning many other high end pieces. Part of me wanting the KXR-20 is just because it's Ayre's best preamp but I think I am more realistic now.