UltraCap™ LPS-1 Operation and Pre-purchase thread

[Daudio]

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

You gents need to decide if what @greenleo is experiencing is vibration or electrical current. 

 

I was only thinking of mechanical vibration, but didn't want to chance shorting anything on the edges of the PCB...

 

[rogerdn]

21 hours ago, rogerdn said:

Ok then if I must use one USB cable is one place better than the other, IR > DAC or uR > IR, trying to decide cable lengths to order. 

 

 

 

Alex, any thoughts on this ?

[Daudio]

22 hours ago, rogerdn said:

On 6/12/2017 at 9:29 PM, Superdad said:

 

Not at all!  If the physical layout with the impedance-controlled USPCB A>B Adapter works for you, then the our piece should sound better than ANY cable.  

 

Ok then if I must use one USB cable is one place better than the other, IR > DAC or uR > IR, trying to decide cable lengths to order. 

 

Not Superdad, but I know the answer - The USB cable should run from your uR -> IR, and use the USBPC from the IR to DAC, for the best SQ.

 

[jamesg11]

2 hours ago, Daudio said:

 

I was only thinking of mechanical vibration, but didn't want to chance shorting anything on the edges of the PCB...

 

For vibration, micro, I use the herbiesaudiolab 'supersonic stabiliser' - it's a mass which is very useful on top of light, easily dislodged items like the lps-1 & IR. Got 1 on my iDSD dac & I put 2 on the macmini.

 

The micro-vibrational 'science' is a matter for the 'measurement' folks ...!

[Superdad]

8 minutes ago, Daudio said:

Not Superdad, but I know the answer - The USB cable should run from your uR -> IR, and use the USBPC from the IR to DAC, for the best SQ.

 

Dave is of course correct on this. Thanks buddy! 

[rogerdn]

36 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Dave is of course correct on this. Thanks buddy! 

 

Thks both of you, hoping for the reverse but figured you'd say that,  

[greenleo]

8 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I just did.  Nothing.   Try it with no power supply even attached to the microRendu.  That is, no cords at all.  If you are using your light fingers on the case, then what you are feeling is the micro-vibrations of your fingers on the smooth anodized finish of the enclosure.  That's all I feel.

 

There is no static build-up on the enclosure.

Thank you Alex.

 

When nothing, no power, no LAN cable, no USB, is connected to the mR, no feeling of electrostatic or micro vibrations.  

[R1200CL]

On 9.3.2017 at 11:06 PM, R1200CL said:

So far no one has not said it's not possible to run a SonicTransporter i5 from dual setup of LPS-1.

 

It uses 8W and 12 V. Isn't that less than 1A ?

Am I wrong?

 

So in lack of any confirmation, I have now tested this myself. 

 

It's not working. ?

 

It is very close to work. Sometimes only one red light for a short moment. (The 5 V one). Sometimes both LPS-1 has a short red light blink. 

 

Just to explain how close. The SonicTransporter.com can see it, but typing the IP-adressen wont work. Strange. 

 

Once I had the SonicTransporter running, but was not able reach to it. 

 

Maybe be if I was powering the SSD with a third LPS-1, it could work ?

 

I'm tempted to try 14 Volt, but I suppose it should not make any difference. 

Or may even destroy my SonicTransporter....

[asdf1000]

Hi all,

 

Is anyone using the Uptone LPS-1 with TP-Link MC110CS FMC's?

 

Does the MC110CS take 2.1mm DC plug size? I can't find it in the TP-Link manual

 

 

[pl_svn]

7 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Is anyone using the Uptone LPS-1 with TP-Link MC110CS FMC's?

 

Does the MC110CS take 2.1mm DC plug size?

 

I've been using another LPS, not the LPS-1, with an MC110CS and... yes: it takes a 2.1 barrel plug

[greenleo]

Hi,

I have two operational questions.

 

1. Is it OK if I unplug the power for the LPS-1 for two weeks and then plug in the power again?  Will the cap dry out?  I want to be environmental friendly, not for money purpose.

 

2. Is it OK if I unplug the power for the LPS-1 daily and then plug in the power again?  I find that I need them running only a couple of hours contiguously.  Again for the same reason.

 

I'm afraid that doing these or not doing these will shorten the life of the LPS-1.

[JohnSwenson]

The LPS-1 lifespan is very long no matter what you do with it. So leaving it off for two weeks then turning back on is fine, turning it off every day will not significantly shorten or lengthen its lifetime.

 

For the best SOUND you should leave it and what it powers on all the time.

 

John S.

[Lonely_Fool]

Hi Alex & John,

 

I just tried to power my Raspberry Pi 3 + Hifiberry Digi+ using the LPS-1 at 5V. It works and I have been playing music for hours, the RPi function as a RoonBridge. I seem to read it somewhere that said LPS-1 is not suitable for powering the Raspberry Pi, is this correct? Even it seems to work okay for me, but will this 'harm' the LPS-1? Or shorten its lifespan? I just don't want to damage the LPS-1 by using it in a 'wrong' way.

 

Thanks,

 

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Lonely_Fool said:

I just tried to power my Raspberry Pi 3 + Hifiberry Digi+ using the LPS-1 at 5V. It works and I have been playing music for hours, the RPi function as a RoonBridge. I seem to read it somewhere that said LPS-1 is not suitable for powering the Raspberry Pi, is this correct? Even it seems to work okay for me, but will this 'harm' the LPS-1? Or shorten its lifespan? I just don't want to damage the LPS-1 by using it in a 'wrong' way.

 

Don't worry in the least.  You will not harm your LPS-1 at all.  The items you are powering clearly fall in the LPS-1's capability range.  Even if they did not, you would know as the LPS-1 has over-current logic that kicks in--that's what the LED will tell you.

 

I don't know where people are writing that Raspberry Pi units are too much load for an LPS-1.  Those are easy!  

[MikeyFresh]

8 hours ago, Superdad said:

I don't know where people are writing that Raspberry Pi units are too much load for an LPS-1.  Those are easy!

 

It just depends on what is connected to the RPi3's USB ports, for instance a 2TB bus powered HDD in combination with a power hungry boot sequence like JRiver Id Pi can present a problem even for a 2.5 amp supply. Even little stuff like the HDMI port @ about 30mA can push things over the edge depending on what else is connected.

 

If the RPi3 is loaded down with USB devices that draw current, all bets are off and it can draw 2.5 amps during boot, well in excess of the LPS-1's spec.

 

On the other hand, lean distro stuff like Moode Player, and an I²S DAC don't draw much current at all and should be fine.

 

I don't claim to have tested loads of configurations, but even just one 2TB bus powered HDD can present problems, and even if the under voltage condition is brief (evidenced by a lightning bolt icon on the GUI during boot), that can cause corruption of the mSD card for instance and so should be avoided.

 

Beyond that, the RPi3 has a cheap noisy switching regulator on the board, so unless you are big into modifications I suggest powering the Pi itself with an LPS-1 might be akin to throwing good money at bad. The LPS-1 is likely better suited for duty on a connected HAT i.e. DAC, reclocker, etc... (just my opinion/2 cents).

 

I offer the above as my own personal experience and not some sort of all encompassing guideline or RPi dogma, as always YMMV, and the devil as usual is in the details.

 

Or, you can do it like @gstew does with 3 or even 4 LPS-1 units, each powering a different HAT/stage: Pi, isolator, reclocker/FIFO, DAC, etc...undoubtedly killer-cool.

 

Happy Independence Day!

 

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, MikeyFresh said:

If the RPi3 is loaded down with USB devices that draw current, all bets are off and it can draw 2.5 amps during boot, well in excess of the LPS-1's spec.

 

Well of course, but then who does that?!    Drives should be properly powered.  

Lots of people use an LPS-1 for the SOtM sMS-200 or other streamer/renderer, but they know not to load up its ports with bus-powered drives.

 

And if the USB port is being used for a bus-powered DAC, well then our other popular little device will both handle that load and provide much cleaner VBUS power.  

 

Just sayin' ...

 

Happy 4th everyone!  Fireworks here came early yesterday in the form of a 300 acre fire less than a mile from our house.  It's over and now I am putting back all the precious items (family photos and documents, music drives, etc.) that we had gathered up for evacuation.  Dry mountain life! 

[rickca]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Happy 4th everyone

Same to you!  Glad you are out of danger.

[Lonely_Fool]

7 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

Beyond that, the RPi3 has a cheap noisy switching regulator on the board, so unless you are big into modifications I suggest powering the Pi itself with an LPS-1 might be akin to throwing good money at bad. The LPS-1 is likely better suited for duty on a connected HAT i.e. DAC, reclocker, etc... (just my opinion/2 cents).

 

 

Is there any benefit using the GPIO to power the Raspberry Pi instead of using the micro-USB connection? Will that bypass the regulator on board?

 

Thanks,

[lmitche]

6 hours ago, Superdad said:

Fireworks here came early yesterday in the form of a 300 acre fire less than a mile from our house.  It's over and now I am putting back all the precious items (family photos and documents, music drives, etc.) that we had gathered up for evacuation.  Dry mountain life! 

Wow, scary.  Happy to hear all is well!

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, Lonely_Fool said:

 

Is there any benefit using the GPIO to power the Raspberry Pi instead of using the micro-USB connection? Will that bypass the regulator on board?

 

Thanks,

 

I've not tried that but seem to remember others reporting slightly better sound when powering through the GPIO instead of the micro USB port, however I'm really not sure of why that would be the case as AFAIK both definitely still use that switching PSU on the board to supply both 3.3 and 1.8 volts. Maybe some other parts on the board are bypassed via the GPIO?

 

There is a recent report of big sound quality gains by an end user who did actually remove the switching PSU, replacing it with a 5 volt AMB Labs Sigma 11 PSU, as well as separate LT3045 based 3.3 and 1.8 volt LDOs. Thats beyond my skill level/pay grade for sure without very specific/careful instructions and a parts list, I wouldn't be comfortable otherwise, I'd be too worried about everything going up in smoke!

 

On a more practical level, the above also takes up much more real estate, produces more heat, and is costly (relatively speaking), so not a small endeavor but apparently worth it sonically.

 

Maybe @gstew has some words of wisdom in terms of powering through the GPIO or removing the switching PSU from the board?

 

I apologize if this is now way off-topic for this thread.

 

[Lonely_Fool]

Mikey, thanks for all the info. I also think the conversation about Raspberry Pi should stop here now.

 

Back to LPS-1

[gstew]

2 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

I've not tried that but seem to remember others reporting slightly better sound when powering through the GPIO instead of the micro USB port, however I'm really not sure of why that would be the case as AFAIK both definitely still use that switching PSU on the board to supply both 3.3 and 1.8 volts. Maybe some other parts on the board are bypassed via the GPIO?

 

There is a recent report of big sound quality gains by an end user who did actually remove the switching PSU, replacing it with a 5 volt AMB Labs Sigma 11 PSU, as well as separate LT3045 based 3.3 and 1.8 volt LDOs. Thats beyond my skill level/pay grade for sure without very specific/careful instructions and a parts list, I wouldn't be comfortable otherwise, I'd be too worried about everything going up in smoke!

 

On a more practical level, the above also takes up much more real estate, produces more heat, and is costly (relatively speaking), so not a small endeavor but apparently worth it sonically.

 

Maybe @gstew has some words of wisdom in terms of powering through the GPIO or removing the switching PSU from the board?

 

I apologize if this is now way off-topic for this thread.

 

 

First, some housekeeping... Alex, I'll copy the RPi-related content into a new thread on the General forum in a few days. If you can wait until I do that, you'll be free to delete these off-topic posts without losing some useful content.

 

MikeyFresh, I've seen the reports from others who reported better sound powering the RPi through the expansion connector pins. Since I've ONLY powered mine this way, I haven't compared and can't comment on whether it does or not. What that does is bypass some protection circuitry in-line with the micro-USB power input that are not involved when powering via the expansion pins... it makes sense to me that protection circuit could result in slightly poorer sound. BTW, if anyone is interested, you can find the schematics for the RPis online... just search, I vaguely remember they are at RaspberryPi.org. Not a very interesting read, though.

 

The comments I've seen on removing the switch-mode regulator that produces 3.3V & 1.8V from the 5V input and feeding them directly from 'better' regulators can be found here:

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/291261-something-cool-raspberry-pi-odroid-i2s-dsd-isolator-hat-native-dsd-decoder-4.html#post5074517

 

and there are more later in the thread. This is something I'm pulling together all the parts to try & will report my results.

 

Also, I have played around with powering an RPi with an LPS-1. I've had some spottiness in how consistently they boot, but it works most of the time. I reported some results on using various configurations of a linear supply and LPS-1 setups powering an SDTrans384 (a high-end DIY SD-card player) in this post:

 

My results in powering the Pi are similar, though I haven't tried my matched paralleled LPS-1s on a Pi yet.

 

I mentioned I wanted to try another approach to the paralleled-LPS-1 setup and I wired that up today... should try later this week. It SHOULD allow use of 2 non-current-matched LPS-1s as they are connected via 2 separate halves of a paralleled LT3042 regulator board which already introduce a small resistance to allow safe paralleling... BUT these boards seem to be currently unavailable... that may change though.

 

This will be a pre-amble to power-hacking a Pi. 

 

Later!

 

Greg in Mississippi

[Guidof]

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

 

Happy 4th everyone!  Fireworks here came early yesterday in the form of a 300 acre fire less than a mile from our house.  It's over and now I am putting back all the precious items (family photos and documents, music drives, etc.) that we had gathered up for evacuation.  Dry mountain life! 

 

NOT the right kind of fireworks, Alex!

 

Glad that you were not harmed, and happy 4th (whatever remains of it at this late hour anyway) to you too!

[greenleo]

I found that my SMPS is 12.3V open circuit.  Can it be used to power the LPS-1?

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, greenleo said:

I found that my SMPS is 12.3V open circuit.  Can it be used to power the LPS-1?

 

While it might work for a little while, why risk it?  Is the $15 you save by using some alternate charger (and is that 12V supply really up to the 1.5A that the LPS-1 WILL draw?) worth the chance of destruction of your LPS-1?

 

Inspection of the board will reveal if over-voltaging occurred--and such is NOT covered by our warranty.