UltraCap™ LPS-1 LISTENING IMPRESSIONS thread

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, Charente said:

My experience, so far, is that the S/PDIF route sounds (to me) quite a bit better, which surprised me somewhat. So, my thought (if it makes sense) was to add the ISO Regen as an input to the DDC, in other words, between the MacMini-out and the DDC-in. 

 

You are far from alone in finding the USB input of your Gungnir to not sound as good at its S/PDIF input.  Mike Moffat has decades of experience designing good S/PDIF inputs and has expressed his disdain for USB.  

 

I won't go too far into my personal tirade about S/PDIF obsolesce in the realm of computer audio (Unless you have a nice S/PDIF transmitting out of your computer, the whole notion of USB>S/PDIF embed-clock, transmit> receive, strip clock, reclock> I2S > DAC conversion--versus a quality, internal USB>I2S stage slaved to the DACs master clock.).  Let's just say that USB inputs on DACs vary, yet there are few reasons for them not to exceed an S/PDIF chains.  Better in some than others.  (Let's see if I get flamed for saying this. )

[Charente]

2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

You are far from alone in finding the USB input of your Gungnir to not sound as good at its S/PDIF input.  Mike Moffat has decades of experience designing good S/PDIF inputs and has expressed his disdain for USB.  

.......

 (Let's see if I get flamed for saying this. )

 

Yes, I'm sure this is a 'passionate' argument ... It's worth a shot for me ... my ageing ears have convinced me ... I can always switch back to USB without too much trouble. 

[Superdad]

23 minutes ago, Charente said:

Thank-you Alex ... you have given me a valuable insight as to how I could approach this ... it is EXTREMELY tempting ... so, I 'could' get away with not needing separate LPS-1's to power both units (for the moment), using my existing LPS-1, and perhaps consider buying an additional one as a future upgrade, should I get the urge !

 

Given that your USB>S/PDIF converter is entirely bus powered and that its input "ground" domain is the same as the downstream side of the ISO REGEN (which is what the external PS powers), I really can not think of ANY reason that you would ever need/want to have separate LPS-1s for the ISO REGEN and the USB>S/PDIF converter.

 

The 1A regulator in the ISO for 5VBUS is dedicated just to that.  There are 5(!) other 200mA ultra-ultra-low-noise LT3042 regs separately handling the rest of the circuits.

So if you use the ISO REGEN to power the DDC, you have cascaded TI TPS regs--from the LPS-1 and ISO; Or if you use a 'Y' cable and your VBUS injector you have virtually the same clean power from just the LPS-1.

 

[Charente]

5 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

... I really can not think of ANY reason that you would ever need/want to have separate LPS-1s for the ISO REGEN and the USB>S/PDIF converter.

...

 

 Thank-you for a very honest appraisal ... much appreciated. You have just got yourself another ISO Regen customer. Will order from Martin at VortexBox.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, Charente said:

 

Yes, I'm sure this is a 'passionate' argument ... It's worth a shot for me ... my ageing ears have convinced me ... I can always switch back to USB without too much trouble. 

 

I am not suggesting that you do.  What I was trying to politely say is that it is no secret that Schiit DACs' USB inputs don't sound as good as their S/PDIF inputs--though it does not have to be that way.

 

That said, the ISO REGEN may help some USB inputs enough to tip it the other way.  We have had reports of users moving back over to their DAC's USB input and leaving behind their DDCs.  None with Schiit DACs so far though. 

 

So I do encourage those who get an ISO REGEN for use in front of their USB>S/PDIF converter to later revisit their DAC's USB input (if it has one)--with the ISO REGEN.  One never knows...

[Charente]

4 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I am not suggesting that you do.  What I was trying to politely say is that it is no secret that Schiit DACs' USB inputs don't sound as good as their S/PDIF inputs--though it does not have to be that way.

 

That said, the ISO REGEN may help some USB inputs enough to tip it the other way.  We have had reports of users moving back over to their DAC's USB input and leaving behind their DDCs.  None with Schiit DACs so far though. 

 

But I do encourage those who get an ISO REGEN for use in front of their USB>S/PDIF converter to later revisit their DAC's USB input (if it has one)--with the ISO REGEN.  One never knows...

 

Yes, I take your point ... thank-you for taking the time

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Charente said:

Yes, I take your point ... thank-you for taking the time

 

You are most welcome.  Thank you for your interest--and your business!  

 

BTW, Martin at VorteBox UK has been doing a terrific job for us.  He is first-rate.  I just wish we could better keep him supplied with product.  You Brits are a hungry bunch of audiophiles! 

[Charente]

32 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

You Brits are a hungry bunch of audiophiles! 

 

So very true ... ordered !!  

[MikeyFresh]

I finally pried away the LPS-1 from it's primary duty powering the microRendu a few days ago, after a total system power down due to severe thunderstorm activity, and the receipt of some very interesting boards offered by IanCanada in a group buy on another forum.

 

These boards are called IsolatorPi, and they provide isolation between a Raspberry Pi3 and a DAC "HAT" when installed in between via the 40-pin GPIO interface as described in this block diagram:

 

This IsolatorPi also then entails the use of two separate power supplies, one for the RPi3 itself and another for the DAC "HAT". The RPi3 is too power hungry at boot up for typical use with the LPS-1, however when used in the configuration above the LPS-1 can be employed on the DAC only, which is what I did:

 

This brings about a stunning sonic improvement to the very humble low-priced RPi3 and Collybia Mamboberry LS DAC+ combination, with an iPower 5v powering the RPi3 itself and the LPS-1 powering the isolator and DAC board, all running the outstanding Moode 3.7 distro with advanced audio kernel.

 

I concede the LPS-1 is likely too expensive for the typical budget oriented RPi3 application, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun to try it out and I don't rule out someday buying another LPS-1 for duty in my "bargain" system if these I²S DAC "HATs" continue to evolve/improve over time.

 

In keeping with the IsolatorPi's design ethos, I simply had to pull out the big-gun LPS-1 to add full isolation from the AC.

 

 

[Charente]

9 hours ago, satfrat said:

The Regen(s) work just fine with any USB converter prior to a S/PDIF dac. I much prefer using my Empirical Off-Ramp converter and S/PDIF to a Havana dac over the Havana's USB input.

Thank-you @satfrat ... I hadn't previously questioned the possibility that the USB input on my DAC might not be as good in SQ as its S/PDIF input. Will be interesting to compare further once I get the ISO Regen that I've now ordered. Not familiar with your equipment ... had to look it up !! 

[lmitche]

17 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Our REGENs (both the original USB REGEN and the new ISO REGEN) have always benefitted USB>S/PDIF converters--in the same way and for the same reasons--as they have for the USB input of a DAC.  Improved signal integrity, clocking, impedance match.  

There are many hundreds of people using REGENs with DDCs such as Berkeley Alpha, m2tech, Bel Canto, YellowTec, Singxer (lots of SU-1 owners with ISO REGEN now), etc.  

 

If you get an ISO REGEN, power it from the LPS-1--set at 7V--and let the 5VBUS of the ISO REGEN power your USB>S/PDIF converter--no need to use the VBUS injector cable at that point.  The output voltage regulators of the LPS-1 and the 5VBUS regulator of the ISO REGEN are the same ultra-low noise 1-amp TI TPS7A4700, so it is a wash there.

 

On the other hand, since you already have the VBUS injector cable: If you wanted to keep your ISO REGEN cool (the load from the entirely bus-powered DDC is going to get the ISO REGEN pretty hot--though that's okay), you could use a 'Y' cable and use the LPS-1 to power the ISO REGEN and DDC separately.  If you do that, then be certain to set the LPS-1 to 5V so you don't fry your DDC!

Fwiw, I spent some time testing with and without 5 volt vbus injection this week on my microidsd Black label.  In the end, 7 volts into the ISO Regen with the injector removed sounds better then 5 volts on a ghent audio dc y-cable into the ISO Regen and injector.

[Charente]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Fwiw, I spent some time testing with and without 5 volt vbus injection this week on my microidsd Black label.  In the end, 7 volts into the ISO Regen with the injector removed sounds better then 5 volts on a ghent audio dc y-cable into the ISO Regen and injector.

Interesting... thank-you for your experience impression.

[Jay Tee]

Congratulations, MikeyFresh. And score one more for the LPS-1.

[Jay Tee]

Well the ISO Regen has been running for a little under 24 hours now, fed by the LPS-1 (powered by the Meanwell) and so far the sound is gorgeous. Very refined.

 

At this stage I would multiply all I've written about the LPS-1 by two to describe the two together...even lower noise floor, excellent dynamics, even fuller sound with much more of each note's nuances, longer lingering trails on appropriately recorded tracks, articulate and maybe slightly deeper bass. The overall sound is intensely musical. Even after just about 22 hours it's more like if I had a major preamp or power amp upgrade.

 

I'll wait to see if all gets even better in the next 3 or four days. Even if it doesn't I'm happy (and I haven't yet added the USPCB to replace the short Curious).

[gstew]

On 7/2/2017 at 6:48 PM, MikeyFresh said:

I finally pried away the LPS-1 from it's primary duty powering the microRendu a few days ago, after a total system power down due to severe thunderstorm activity, and the receipt of some very interesting boards offered by IanCanada in a group buy on another forum.

 

These boards are called IsolatorPi, and they provide isolation between a Raspberry Pi3 and a DAC "HAT" when installed in between via the 40-pin GPIO interface as described in this block diagram:

 

This IsolatorPi also then entails the use of two separate power supplies, one for the RPi3 itself and another for the DAC "HAT". The RPi3 is too power hungry at boot up for typical use with the LPS-1, however when used in the configuration above the LPS-1 can be employed on the DAC only, which is what I did:

 

This brings about a stunning sonic improvement to the very humble low-priced RPi3 and Collybia Mamboberry LS DAC+ combination, with an iPower 5v powering the RPi3 itself and the LPS-1 powering the isolator and DAC board, all running the outstanding Moode 3.7 distro with advanced audio kernel.

 

I concede the LPS-1 is likely too expensive for the typical budget oriented RPi3 application, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun to try it out and I don't rule out someday buying another LPS-1 for duty in my "bargain" system if these I²S DAC "HATs" continue to evolve/improve over time.

 

In keeping with the IsolatorPi's design ethos, I simply had to pull out the big-gun LPS-1 to add full isolation from the AC.

 

 

 

Nonsense… an RPi player is the perfect place for an LPS-1… or 2… or 3… or…

 

I’ve been firmly committed to I2S-connected DACs for the last 10 or so years, starting with modifying an ESI Juli@’s sound card’s analog section, then hacking the card to replace the analog section with various I2S-connected DACs, and now using SBCs (Single Board Computers) like RPis as playback appliances.

 

I know USB is all the rage, but the hoops one has to jump through to get good USB audio (notwithstanding the ground-breaking efforts of John & Alex at Uptone Audio with their industry-first Regen and Iso-Regen along with all of the similar devices inspired by or developed in parallel) have me continuing to sidestep that world and remain with directly-connected I2S DACs. It helps (A LOT) that I am a DIY’er and that I’d rather listen to something I built anyway. AND the expanding marketplace of DACs designed to plug right in on top of a Raspberry Pi… and the devices to make them sound better (Like the IsolatorPi that MikeyFresh mentions and the Kali I2S reclocker from Allo.com), has made this realm easier and more accessible to even the ‘casual’ DIY’er.

 

In basic design, the best of these setups have many aspects in common with good mid-level DACs EXCEPT for power supplies. Many people pale at spending 2-10x the cost of the RPi, isolator board (from Ian or Allo), I2S reclocker (currently only from Allo), and DAC card (available from many sources nowadays, but I can personally vouch for the goodness of the Mamboberry, the Allo.com Piano 2.1 & Boss, and the newcomer Dial Audio  RPi DAC), but if you break down the component costs of a good DAC and subtract out the case costs, that is roughly the cost breakdown you get. AND my experience is that every bit of cost and effort put into good power supplies for these pays great dividends… and I have not found the point of diminishing returns yet.

 

Below is my current king of the hill RPi setup… my own HotRod build of the Dial DAC sitting on an RPi -> Kali stack. Power to the RPi and Dial DAC’s output stages are DIY’d linear supplies. The Kali and the digital and analog sides of the Dial DAC’s PCM1793 are powered by LPS-1s. AND as a beta-tester of the IsolatorPi, I’ve had one in this stack and found the addition very worthwhile (as MikeyFresh did above)..

 

Would I trade this all in for an equivalent-cost USB-connected DAC, source, power supplies, and USB interfaces (IsoRegen?)? Never. I suspect it will hold its own with anything out there today at equivalent cost… and I had a lot of fun putting it all together and get a lot of pride in the music from it (though not the looks… I DON’T make gear to look at!).

 

Not that this is everyone’s cup of tea. BUT if you are so inclined, it is a great way to get into DIY.

 

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. BTW, there are a wealth of lunatic fringe tweaks visible in these 2 pictures... A tip of the hat to whoever can find and identify all of them!

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, Jay Tee said:

Well the ISO Regen has been running for a little under 24 hours now, fed by the LPS-1 (powered by the Meanwell) and so far the sound is gorgeous. Very refined.

 

At this stage I would multiply all I've written about the LPS-1 by two to describe the two together...even lower noise floor, excellent dynamics, even fuller sound with much more of each note's nuances, longer lingering trails on appropriately recorded tracks, articulate and maybe slightly deeper bass. The overall sound is intensely musical. Even after just about 22 hours it's more like if I had a major preamp or power amp upgrade.

 

I'll wait to see if all gets even better in the next 3 or four days. Even if it doesn't I'm happy (and I haven't yet added the USPCB to replace the short Curious).

 

@Jay Tee So glad you have at last put your ISO REGEN in place.  I must say you are a master at "delayed gratification!"   I can tell you like to savor things and appreciate the differences in steps.  I get that.  But put the darn USPCB in place already!  

[markjock3]

Thanks much MikeyFresh and Greg in Mississippi, I am very appreciative of the DIY info and was not aware of Ian's Isolator.

Not that I (as a diyer) will ever be held in the same regard as John and Alex. They have both released some outstanding product to cost bargains. I have tried a few of them and have been happy with the better sound per dollar ratio.

[gstew]

13 minutes ago, markjock3 said:

Thanks much MikeyFresh and Greg in Mississippi, I am very appreciative of the DIY info and was not aware of Ian's Isolator.

Not that I (as a diyer) will ever be held in the same regard as John and Alex. They have both released some outstanding product to cost bargains. I have tried a few of them and have been happy with the better sound per dollar ratio.

 

Markjock3,.

 

Welcome. I should also mention that Allo.com has also released an isolator.

BUT in my tests, the real winner for getting the good sound out of an RPi is a reclocker like Allo.com's Kali. While I've found I get the BEST sound with both in place, when I've compared them, the reclocker wins over the isolator hands-down. 

 

MikeyFresh, I forgot to mention that to you... keep the IsolatorPi, but add a reclocker for even more sonic ecstacy.

 

AND for the ultimate (IMHO) with that DAC, convert the Mamboberry to run in synchronous mode where it uses the MCK from the Kali instead of running in Asynchronous mode. I found the sound more real and less 'hi-fi'-ish this way with the ESS chips.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[Albrecht]

On 7/2/2017 at 4:48 PM, MikeyFresh said:

I finally pried away the LPS-1 from it's primary duty powering the microRendu a few days ago, after a total s

 

This IsolatorPi also then entails the use of two separate power supplies, one for the RPi3 itself and another for the DAC "HAT". The RPi3 is too power hungry at boot up for typical use with the LPS-1, however when

In keeping with the IsolatorPi's design ethos, I simply had to pull out the big-gun LPS-1 to add full isolation from the AC.

 

 

Hi,

 

This is really interesting..... Last night, a friend brought round his razberriPi with a SPDIF board & his 5v JameCo LPS with a modded Canare quad cable. We pulled out my mRendu and plugged it in and it sounded pretty good. Then we tried the LPS-1 and wow, - quite a significant difference with truer sounding instruments, much better instrument separation, - and more natural instrument "weight" in the mids & lower mids. The LPS-1 is just awesome.

Then, we plugged the mRendu back in with the LPS-1 and the F-1 DDC and it completely blew away the razberri, even with the LPS-1.

I am impressed with the razberri Pi stuff, and certainly, - this one that we tried didn't have the Pro + SPDIF board either....  But at least in this case, - the Pi doesn't play on the same field as the mRendu + F-1 combo.

Cheers,

 

[Puma Cat]

Just got my Ultracap LPS-1 in this morning!  

 

Going to plug it in in a few minutes and compare to the iFi wall-wart PS. 

 

Right now, I'm going to be using my Schiit Modi Uber DAC because the USB port/controller on my Gungnir bit the dust (!). It's now in queue awaiting the newly released (as of July 17) Schiit Gen 5 USB and a Multibit upgrade. BTW, a good friend's Gungnir USB port also failed almost exactly the same time (to the day) as mine. Ours are older units, late 2013 for my friend's unit, and Jan 2, 2014 for my unit. I trust that Schiit's upgrades will be significant, I really like their products on the whole very much. I heard the Gungnir Multibit DAC at the CA Audio show just last Saturday, and was very impressed with it. 

 

My Gungnir worked with the microRendu for the last 6 months perfectly, but when I when I disconnected everything to move the Mac Mini into another room and then reconnected everything back up is apparently when the Gungnir's USB functionality failed. Could be a static electricity induced failure from making the reconnections. 

 

Anyway, back on point: The LPS-1 is going into the system in just a few minutes; letting everything warm up first (tube components like a good 30 minute of warmup minimum). I'm going to cut to the chase and connect the 7.5 V power supply with a Shunyata Venom AC cable instead of the one that was provided. 

 

System is Conrad-Johnson CT-5 tube preamp, Conrad-Johnson LP-70S stereo power amp driving Dynaudio Contour S3.1 speakers with  Esotar+ tweeters and full Shunyata power distribution and power cables. 

 

Stay tuned! 

[welldone]

Hi all,

I've bought a unit of LPS1 for my system. So, please give me the recommendation on where i should use LPS1 in my system to get the best SQ improvement.

 

My system is now as follows:

 

Synology Nas 214se<->Router powered by Ifi Power 12V <->TP Link FMC powered by Ifi 5V<-> Supra Cat 8 Lan Cable<->TP Link FMC powered by Ifi 5V<-> Supra Cat 8 Lan Cable<->SMS200 powered by LPS 12V (no name)<->USB Booster powered by Lps 5v (no-name)<->Singxer F1-USB to Coxial Converter <->DAC Chord 2Qute powered by Plixir PS.

 

Thanks all.

[genjamon]

20 hours ago, welldone said:

Hi all,

I've bought a unit of LPS1 for my system. So, please give me the recommendation on where i should use LPS1 in my system to get the best SQ improvement.

 

My system is now as follows:

 

Synology Nas 214se<->Router powered by Ifi Power 12V <->TP Link FMC powered by Ifi 5V<-> Supra Cat 8 Lan Cable<->TP Link FMC powered by Ifi 5V<-> Supra Cat 8 Lan Cable<->SMS200 powered by LPS 12V (no name)<->USB Booster powered by Lps 5v (no-name)<->Singxer F1-USB to Coxial Converter <->DAC Chord 2Qute powered by Plixir PS.

 

Thanks all.

Anyone's advice will merely be a guess.  I'd probably start with the SMS200, but that's just me.  Why don't you try in different places, and share which sounds best?!  We all learn from each others' experiences around here.

[welldone]

1 hour ago, genjamon said:

Anyone's advice will merely be a guess.  I'd probably start with the SMS200, but that's just me.  Why don't you try in different places, and share which sounds best?!  We all learn from each others' experiences around here.

Thanks @genjamon. Actually, i'm going to try LPS1 at some different places in my chain. I did try to start with SMS200, but the SQ has not been good as expected. But the SQ has been improved alot, when i let LPS power USB Booster. That's what i've got so far.

[Superdad]

New review of the Sonore ultraRendu/ UpTone UltraCap LPS-1 combo just posted to Positive Feedback:

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/sonores-ultrarendu-streamer-with-the-uptone-audio-ultracap-lps-1-linear-power-supply/

 

Congrats Sonore, et al...

[Cyrus]

Congratulations, Uptone AND Sonore......