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What Are the Best Sounding Speakers You've Ever Heard.?

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But drum solos are awesome:)

 

Drum solo's never sound good. Just like bass solo's or most guitar solo's. All solo's end in wankery just to show skilled they are but they have nothing to do with music. Jazz musicians and rock metal guitarist are the worst offenders. See how good I am see oh please see and listen how skilled I am how many notes I can cram in a few seconds of play or how good I play this 3/17 timing.

 

Anyone that plays a solo that lasts over 30 seconds should stop playing and just masturbate in front of a mirror. Since they apparently love themselves so much.

 

Mbl

 

[attach=config]29776[/attach]

 

Please no. MBL sounds acceptable these days and the older models were just bad. MBL just like Avantgarde speakers fail in integrating the conventional mid/sub driver with the plastic horns (Avantgarde) or the Omni directional (MBL) drivers.


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OK, bit the bullet.

The PR guy from JBL is saying that this speaker was developed for filmsoundtrack engineers and it's goals are Loud and Low...explosions.

 

There's lots more to the M2 than the PR and near constant directivity. There's dynamics and amp level distortion #'s that small format drivers can't touch. I wouldn't steer you wrong for the sake of self pontification....i don't own them but only listened.......and i've listened to LOTS of Hifi systems here in NYC where everything is at your fingertips. All i can say is go and take a listen when you can. It won't be time wasted, i promise you!

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There's lots more to the M2 than the PR and near constant directivity. There's dynamics and amp level distortion #'s that small format drivers can't touch. I wouldn't steer you wrong for the sake of self pontification....i don't own them but only listened.......and i've listened to LOTS of Hifi systems here in NYC where everything is at your fingertips. All i can say is go and take a listen when you can. It won't be time wasted, i promise you!

I'd like to listen to them but I don't know if there are any physical retailers stocking M2s here the UK located at a reasonable distance.

 

But from a design perspective I am not very confident on the decision to go 2-way with a single compression driver covering the 800-20,000 Hz band and a 15'' woofer crossed so high.

The fact that the crossover frequency is in the middle of the midrange doesn't help either.

I am also not very impressed with the idea to place use a wave-guide with a compression driver, particularly in speakers that are designed for far-field listening.

 

Just like with BnW, JBL seem to be focusing all their efforts on particulars whilst neglecting the whole...

 

In my opinion.

 

R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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I heard the infinity IRS towers decades ago at a home where someone had a dedicated room for them. I don't know if they were "the best" I ever heard - it's possible some modern and less expensive speakers are better - but they were definitely the most impressive.

 

It was a sonic experience I won't forget: Even a full orchestra sounded real and "in the room", as impossible as that is.


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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snippp.........

 

Just like with BnW, JBL seem to be focusing all their efforts on particulars whilst neglecting the whole...

 

In my opinion.

 

R

 

I have not heard the M2. And seeing how it is put together I had all the same reservations. It seems like a caricature of the best speaker someone could make. However, listening to some of the other Harman speakers at lesser price levels I would give them benefit of the doubt and believe them. I think you have it exactly backwards. I think they have managed to figure out some important, important particulars that have allowed them to design speakers that get the whole more right than perhaps anything that has come before them. The way they do everything in such balance and hit all the particulars just so results in a very holistic listening experience. When that happens you can forget about sound and hear music.


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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I have not heard the M2. And seeing how it is put together I had all the same reservations. It seems like a caricature of the best speaker someone could make. However, listening to some of the other Harman speakers at lesser price levels I would give them benefit of the doubt and believe them. I think you have it exactly backwards. I think they have managed to figure out some important, important particulars that have allowed them to design speakers that get the whole more right than perhaps anything that has come before them. The way they do everything in such balance and hit all the particulars just so results in a very holistic listening experience. When that happens you can forget about sound and hear music.

 

I think they have obsessed with some particular aspects of performance and neglected others; BnW is clearly blinded by their love for hard cones and domes (and even cabinets) which have their virtues, to the point of accepting a tremendous cone resonance of the midrange/midwoofer driver (802 Diamond) right where your ear is most sensitive, as you can see in the attached image.

The Harman group does produce good speakers but they have a real fixation on directivity control to the point of only producing narrow-baffle domestic speakers (even the largest Revels don't use woofers larger than 8'').

 

IMO&E one cannot achieve full range with a conventional direct radiating box loudspeaker using less than 4 ways.

 

R

 

 

b&w_802diamond.png


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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I couldn't agree more!

One of the reasons I love my Concert Grands is how right they sound at any level.

 

Which is one of the reasons I love my PMC MB2's, even at very low volume they sound right.

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I think they have obsessed with some particular aspects of performance and neglected others; BnW is clearly blinded by their love for hard cones and domes (and even cabinets) which have their virtues, to the point of accepting a tremendous cone resonance of the midrange/midwoofer driver (802 Diamond) right where your ear is most sensitive, as you can see in the attached image.

The Harman group does produce good speakers but they have a real fixation on directivity control to the point of only producing narrow-baffle domestic speakers (even the largest Revels don't use woofers larger than 8'').

 

IMO&E one cannot achieve full range with a conventional direct radiating box loudspeaker using less than 4 ways.

 

R

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]31050[/ATTACH]

 

A four way speaker??

 

Wouldn't that be a crossover nightmare? Even a relative simple 3way speaker can be difficult.


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Drum solo's never sound good. Just like bass solo's or most guitar solo's. All solo's end in wankery just to show skilled they are but they have nothing to do with music. Jazz musicians and rock metal guitarist are the worst offenders. See how good I am see oh please see and listen how skilled I am how many notes I can cram in a few seconds of play or how good I play this 3/17 timing.

 

This comment made my day. Loved it....

I guess all percussionists should kill themselves...

AHAH!

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A four way speaker??

 

Wouldn't that be a crossover nightmare? Even a relative simple 3way speaker can be difficult.

For full range yes.

If you can live without the extreme bottom then a 3-way is enough.

 

R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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Anyone heard the Rockport Lyra yet?

 

The cabinet construction and resonance control mechanism is quite interesting.

I just wish that manufacturers would publish some measurements to support their design choices and claims.

 

R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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I think they have obsessed with some particular aspects of performance and neglected others; BnW is clearly blinded by their love for hard cones and domes (and even cabinets) which have their virtues, to the point of accepting a tremendous cone resonance of the midrange/midwoofer driver (802 Diamond) right where your ear is most sensitive, as you can see in the attached image.

The Harman group does produce good speakers but they have a real fixation on directivity control to the point of only producing narrow-baffle domestic speakers (even the largest Revels don't use woofers larger than 8'').

 

IMO&E one cannot achieve full range with a conventional direct radiating box loudspeaker using less than 4 ways.

 

R

 

As for B&W speakers, I agree. Never heard any I liked from low to high price. Find myself mystified by the praise some heap upon them.

 

As for Harman some of their speakers (large Revels) are 4 way designs. They aren't guided by that however, rather by results. If they can do it with a two way then better I say. I listen to one way speakers. Harman's idea is more than just controlled directivity though such is a key component. As they manage to get full response to 20 hz using combinations of 8 inch woofers I am not sure what the complaint would be. I am sure it is possible to put them in a large enough room they couldn't perform well enough. By then you should probably be stepping up to the M2.


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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As for B&W speakers, I agree. Never heard any I liked from low to high price. Find myself mystified by the praise some heap upon them.

 

As for Harman some of their speakers (large Revels) are 4 way designs. They aren't guided by that however, rather by results. If they can do it with a two way then better I say. I listen to one way speakers. Harman's idea is more than just controlled directivity though such is a key component. As they manage to get full response to 20 hz using combinations of 8 inch woofers I am not sure what the complaint would be. I am sure it is possible to put them in a large enough room they couldn't perform well enough. By then you should probably be stepping up to the M2.

 

I listened to the Ultima 2 Studios sometime ago and I found them quite competent if a little "forward" sounding.

Revels are some of the few speaker manufacturers that I recommend listening.

 

More recently I owned a pair of PSB T2s which come from the same school of design (narrow front and wave-guide controlled directivity); very nice speakers, only let down by the sparkly tweeter and I also felt they were constraint dynamically, even in a small room.

 

R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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Avantgarde Acoustic DUO xD

1480103874813.jpg

Not even close to their best speakers...but the only one I've heard IRL...and I still have wet dreams about them! :)

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app


       Auralic Aries Mini, Ariston RD40 & Mytek Brooklyn DAC system

          with Fostex TH900 & Gibson Les Paul 8 reference monitors

                    For detailed info see Audio System and About Me

                                  

  Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others. Graucho Marx

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nobody mentioned Bob Carver yet...


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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Avantgarde Acoustic DUO xD

[ATTACH]31067[/ATTACH]

Not even close to their best speakers...but the only one I've heard IRL...and I still have wet dreams about them! :)

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Their speakers are superb. I think every demo I ever heard of any of their models was fantastic but one that stands out was a surround sound set up utilizing the Duos for 5 channels with BAT tube amps all around and a 150" screen with a gorgeous Runco projector playing music videos from various sources and with varying examples of surround sound from simple two channel stereo to full surround 5.2. Simply awesome.


David

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nobody mentioned Bob Carver yet...

 

If the OP was "what are the most Amazin' loudspeakers you've heard", then we would have to talk about Bob and his speakers. :)


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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JBL Everest 6700's but they were only playing some vocal jazz which sounded incredible but I didn't get to hear it with a wide range of musical styles and dynamics.

 

It was at a HiFi show but they had the biggest room of all exhibitors by far. The staff were happy to play my music so I was kicking myself for not bringing a CD or two.

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

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My personal best speakers for the price (€220.-/pc) is the Monkey Banana Turbo 5 that will have the optimal performance near-field with a battery powered streamer, good cables & and XLR ground liftters.

 

1480113024394.jpg

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app


       Auralic Aries Mini, Ariston RD40 & Mytek Brooklyn DAC system

          with Fostex TH900 & Gibson Les Paul 8 reference monitors

                    For detailed info see Audio System and About Me

                                  

  Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others. Graucho Marx

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I have been using them for several weeks and feel that they are an improvement over my Super 6 Alnicos. They have exceptional clarity and tonal fidelity. A very refined speaker that is capable of playing full orchestral pieces easily.

 

I worked with Louis Chochos of Omega regarding the crossover point. They came to me with the lower drivers crossed over at 500hz. When I suggested that this seemed like a very sensitive point due to being in the middle of the fundamental range of both the female and male voice as well as a lot of instruments he agreed. He had originally started with 200hz and based on my feedback has decided to change this model back to 200hz. He sent me two replacement inductors free of charge since I am handy with DIY and now I get the full clarity of the Alnico with plenty of dynamic range and low end punch.

 

The Omega Alnico's are great and Louis is exceptional to work with.

 

Great story Mourip. You must have a great setup now. I love my Super alnico monitors so can only imagine how the new ones sound.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tidal Streaming only: ATL DC Blocker > Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > Sine SA5 Cryo 5 power strip > Aqvox 8 port network switch > Antipodes Dxe roon core> PS Audio Directstream Junior Dac 'Windom' > Decware SE84UFO3 Mono Amps > Omega Super Alnico Monitors.

PH SR4 power supplies

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For full range yes.

If you can live without the extreme bottom then a 3-way is enough.

 

R

 

The M2 is actually a three way.......the compression driver is a dual concentric design that's really ingenious in its design. The pillowed waveguide solves an age old diffraction problem that has always plagued horns in the throats with large format drivers. So the M2 borrows from TAD keeping the critical listening FR window from a single point.....or a near perfect point source. From a practicality standpoint, chasing directivity below 800hz is impractical as otherwise requires long line sources or huge waveguide/horns.

 

You'd be better off finding a production studio using the M2 for mixdown where the system has been set optimally in the space. Call it an audition instead of asking for an invite.

 

Now while the premise of a four way system being optimal, there's the reality of passive network components to get the slopes right. So many caps and inductors IMO suck the dynamic life out of a speaker with inductors being the worst offenders. Today's wide band drivers have come a long way from Scandinavian main stay drive units from SEAS, Scanspeak, Vifa and the like. JBL who's been perfecting bass drivers for the past 30 years has some 15" woofers who's breakup mode isn't until 1.2khz and so benign to require only a simple notch filter and cap to achieve near textbook 2nd order combined acoustic/electric slope. Low QTS combined with cloth or foam surrounds allow the driver to produce fine detail with dynamics and efficiencies not possible with critically damped hifi drivers. For a four way, there's also the problem of driver spacing and inherent vertical lobes also known as cancellation notches. While not a problem on axis, off axis they leave wide holes in the overall power response which is quite audible.

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Two weeks ago I heard Sonus Faber Aida's in action. They were colored in a beautiful gloss red finish.

 

(The following is a web pick, not the actual speakers I heard)http://67.media.tumblr.com/d236de38088399c7ee3fef28de042609/tumblr_inline_mmoy9oc7KI1qz4rgp.jpg

 

They were powered by three black towers called Naim Statement. Must be entry level amplification ;-)

 

I still have scratch marks on my chin from my jaw hitting the floor...

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Now while the premise of a four way system being optimal, there's the reality of passive network components to get the slopes right. So many caps and inductors IMO suck the dynamic life out of a speaker with inductors being the worst offenders. Today's wide band drivers have come a long way from Scandinavian main stay drive units from SEAS, Scanspeak, Vifa and the like. JBL who's been perfecting bass drivers for the past 30 years has some 15" woofers who's breakup mode isn't until 1.2khz and so benign to require only a simple notch filter and cap to achieve near textbook 2nd order combined acoustic/electric slope. Low QTS combined with cloth or foam surrounds allow the driver to produce fine detail with dynamics and efficiencies not possible with critically damped hifi drivers. For a four way, there's also the problem of driver spacing and inherent vertical lobes also known as cancellation notches. While not a problem on axis, off axis they leave wide holes in the overall power response which is quite audible.

 

I had seen mention of the dual diaphragm in the literature.

 

As previously mentioned I have some doubts regarding the effectiveness of their topology and am still waiting for an independent review with measurements.

So far these are all I've found:

 

http://www.soundandrecording.musikmachen.de/Magazine/SOUND-RECORDING/2014/12/JBL-M2-Master-Reference-Monitor-Testbericht

 

Not much to go on but they do show a significant amount breakup right where the ear is more sensitive:

 

T_JBLM2-03_forum_embed.jpg

 

 

 

That's the problem with speakers: there's a trade-off in every solution.

 

For example, the cone in the TAD coaxial driver of the Evo1s produced distortion in the upper bands.

The M2s won't have this problem due to the extremely narrow directivity in the upper frequencies and there wont be any cone moving back and forth to produce interference.

 

And according to Neumann, if you split the 20-800Hz range over 2 drivers you'll reduce intermodulation distortion:

 

http://www.neumann-kh-line.com/neumann-kh/glossary.nsf/root/19025D8C4F126AD8C12578B2003A71E9?Open&term=TIM

 

 

 

As for directivity and sound power, having owned a pair of PSBs I find that the BBC school of gently attenuating the sound power in the "presence region" where the ear is more sensitive produces better results in smaller rooms at midfield listening distances.

 

But it may just be a question of taste...

 

R

Edited by semente

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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I like a bit of BBC dip as well!..........back in the day before the foam rotted away, my Rogers were my favorite monitors.

 

The graph you posted is the individual drivers measured outside of filters and shown on the same scale for comparison. That nasty breakup is what a 15" woofer should sound like above 1.5khz as depicted in the red trace. It's also important when looking at some graphs to take note of the scale and smoothing. Many reviewers AND manufacturers use that to their advantage when trying to get their point across...... or not! Lol. I think they meant to confirm system efficiency with that one?..lol

 

But in all seriousness, the M2 system is really pricey and IMO audio is one of the BEST examples of diminishing returns and one of the WORST offenders of form over function.

Take a pair of Maggie 1.7's for an example coupled with a SS run of the mill 200wpc amplifier........man, that performance is VERY hard to eclipse at that cost. It checks quite a few boxes with ultra light ribbon membranes for near perfect transient response, no enclosure so no resonances and dipolar bass which interacts less with the room for reduced propagation of modes and nulls.........but they are VERY power hungry and unforgiving of amplifier clipping to the point of instantaneous destruction so........another example of your trade offs! Lol

 

Much enjoyed debating this topic with you!

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