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New Norah Jones DR?


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Anyone get a chance to buy this and analyze it? Curious to see if the DR is good or compressed.

 

I am listening to it now via Amazon Prime and I dig it! Will probably just buy the high res version anyway.

 

EDIT: Should have checked the DR database:

 

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/116397

 

Data doesnt look too bad.

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BTW, the DR I linked to above is for the Target exclusive CD. Not sure if the high res version would have different DR values.

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

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96/24 = dr10

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Very unlikely hi-res version will have lower DR than the CD. The opposite is more likely.

 

DR of 10 is very good these days (unfortunately) for something intended for the mass market.

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they are almost identical (unfortunately) - both have DR10

DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound. Most good albums have a spread of several dB in peak level by track.

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DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound. Most good albums have a spread of several dB in peak level by track.

 

+1

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Peak levels differ slightly between both versions (see link above for the CD data):

 

 

foobar2000 1.3.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2016-10-08 21:35:57

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Norah Jones / Day Breaks

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR10 -0.35 dB -12.58 dB 4:39 01-Burn

DR9 -0.23 dB -11.71 dB 4:15 02-Tragedy

DR7 0.00 dB -9.10 dB 3:41 03-Flipside

DR12 -0.39 dB -15.01 dB 3:54 04-It's A Wonderful Time For Love

DR11 -0.39 dB -14.79 dB 3:06 05-And Then There Was You

DR9 0.00 dB -11.21 dB 5:36 06-Don’t Be Denied

DR9 -0.19 dB -12.11 dB 3:58 07-Day Breaks

DR11 -0.32 dB -14.03 dB 5:15 08-Peace

DR10 -0.33 dB -12.16 dB 3:13 09-Once I Had A Laugh

DR11 -0.39 dB -14.37 dB 3:08 10-Sleeping Wild

DR10 -0.38 dB -12.67 dB 2:48 11-Carry On

DR12 0.00 dB -14.98 dB 5:22 12-Fleurette Africaine (African Flower)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 12

Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate: 96000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 4608 kbps

Codec: PCM

==========================================

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I bought the 24/96 flac version and it's better than the Tidal redbook version .

I can't get over though how Norah's voice has some sibilance when she hits the high notes .

I recording of the vocals could have been improved .

Nice album .

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DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound. Most good albums have a spread of several dB in peak level by track.

 

+2. The wave forms (as rendered in Roon) suggest that this is the case. Still and all, I think it's a pretty fine album. Wayne Shorter (my musical hero) plays on a bunch of tracks, as does Lonnie Smith. Brian Blade plays drums on most (all?) of the tracks, and the pianist and bass player from his band play on a number of the tunes. John Patitucci plays bass on a couple of tracks. Norah's written some really great songs for this album, and they mesh very well with the standards. Love the Ellington cover.

 

--David

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Go for vinyl:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed folder: Day Breaks

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR12 -8.52 dB -22.33 dB 01-Burn.wav

DR11 -8.89 dB -22.70 dB 02-Tragedy.wav

DR11 -6.49 dB -19.74 dB 03-Flipside.wav

DR12 -10.01 dB -25.80 dB 04-It's A Wonderful Time For Love.wav

DR12 -10.73 dB -25.63 dB 05-And Then There Was You.wav

DR11 -8.00 dB -21.98 dB 06-Don't Be Denied.wav

DR11 -4.62 dB -22.14 dB 07-Day Breaks.wav

DR12 -9.91 dB -25.00 dB 08-Peace.wav

DR11 -9.83 dB -23.01 dB 09-Once I Had A Laugh.wav

DR11 -10.25 dB -25.15 dB 10-Sleeping Wild.wav

DR11 -9.35 dB -23.54 dB 11-Carry On.wav

DR12 -9.84 dB -25.76 dB 12-Fleurette Africaine.wav

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of files: 12

Official DR value: DR12

 

==============================================================================================

 

It's quite usual nowadays that vinyl could have better DR. The same is for the latest Yello Toy album - better on vinyl.

--

Krzysztof Maj

http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/

"Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata

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Go for vinyl:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed folder: Day Breaks

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Filename

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DR12 -8.52 dB -22.33 dB 01-Burn.wav

DR11 -8.89 dB -22.70 dB 02-Tragedy.wav

DR11 -6.49 dB -19.74 dB 03-Flipside.wav

DR12 -10.01 dB -25.80 dB 04-It's A Wonderful Time For Love.wav

DR12 -10.73 dB -25.63 dB 05-And Then There Was You.wav

DR11 -8.00 dB -21.98 dB 06-Don't Be Denied.wav

DR11 -4.62 dB -22.14 dB 07-Day Breaks.wav

DR12 -9.91 dB -25.00 dB 08-Peace.wav

DR11 -9.83 dB -23.01 dB 09-Once I Had A Laugh.wav

DR11 -10.25 dB -25.15 dB 10-Sleeping Wild.wav

DR11 -9.35 dB -23.54 dB 11-Carry On.wav

DR12 -9.84 dB -25.76 dB 12-Fleurette Africaine.wav

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Number of files: 12

Official DR value: DR12

 

==============================================================================================

 

It's quite usual nowadays that vinyl could have better DR. The same is for the latest Yello Toy album - better on vinyl.

 

Vinyl with the same master will always be 2-3 Db better, and sound about the same.

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Vinyl with the same master will always be 2-3 Db better, and sound about the same.

 

Kinda agree, but b definition, one decibel (1 dB) represents the smallest change in volume a human ear can perceive. The average ear, however, can only detect a 3 dB change and it depends what is the initial level to hear clearly the difference. 3dB may by actually quite audible in plus. Additionally, RMS values are more differentiated than from CD/download which is also in plus IMHO.

--

Krzysztof Maj

http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/

"Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata

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Kinda agree, but b definition, one decibel (1 dB) represents the smallest change in volume a human ear can perceive.

 

There is no such definition. 1 dB has a precise mathematical meaning. It is merely a coincidence that 1 dB is roughly the smallest change in sound level that is readily perceived under ordinary conditions.

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Is anyone who already has the album interested in hearing a less compressed version of the title track for comparison purposes ? (.wav file)

PM me if you are.

 

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound.

 

Over-compression is a far bigger problem SQ-wise than limiting or normalisation.

 

Limiting is usually a normal processing step in the mastering chain.

 

Normalisation doesn't make the sound boring at all either. And neither does limiting.

 

Over-compressed, that, on the other hand, sounds quite bad, maybe you could say boring in this case in certain instances.

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Over-compression is a far bigger problem SQ-wise than limiting or normalisation.

 

Limiting is usually a normal processing step in the mastering chain.

 

Normalisation doesn't make the sound boring at all either. And neither does limiting.

 

Over-compressed, that, on the other hand, sounds quite bad, maybe you could say boring in this case in certain instances.

 

I think you have it a bit backwards there. Normalization doesn't bother me. A little compression probably not. Heavy compression yes. Limiting....well you could call it infinite compression. A very much larger issue sound quality wise than compression. You have soft and hard limiters, but limiters are worse for sound quality than compression. Normalization really would do nothing to sound quality for the most part.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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I think you have it a bit backwards there. Normalization doesn't bother me. A little compression probably not. Heavy compression yes. Limiting....well you could call it infinite compression. A very much larger issue sound quality wise than compression. You have soft and hard limiters, but limiters are worse for sound quality than compression. Normalization really would do nothing to sound quality for the most part.

Normalisation doesn't affect the sound quality of individual tracks. It does, however, kill inter-track dynamics in an album.

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Normalisation doesn't affect the sound quality of individual tracks. It does, however, kill inter-track dynamics in an album.

 

Everytime I've tried normalizing music, it sounds a little flat to me. I always regret it and remove the normalization.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I think you have it a bit backwards there. Normalization doesn't bother me. A little compression probably not. Heavy compression yes. Limiting....well you could call it infinite compression. A very much larger issue sound quality wise than compression. You have soft and hard limiters, but limiters are worse for sound quality than compression. Normalization really would do nothing to sound quality for the most part.

 

The only backwards thing here is how you post exactly the same thing as I do regarding Over-compression (very bad for sound quality) and Normalisation (doesn't affect SQ at all), but preface it with 'I think you have it backwards here' as if you're posting something totally new.

 

Now, the single thing you refer as infinite compression is a usually necessary step in mastering when it comes to digital material so as to prevent digital clipping - that's why you'll often (if not all the time) find a limiter in a Mastering chain.

 

If you can avoid limiting, then go for it, but what you do not want, ever, is clipping/distortion at the Mastering process and have that stored in the final material. In the case it has to be done to avoid clipping, then it's unavoidable.

 

And when used, Limiting is used sparingly, only to avoid a handful of biggest peaks to make the sound distort, it isn't used the way Compression is misused, i.e. over-used in some recordings, squashing the dynamic range completely. So using the terms 'infinite compression', while technically correct, gives you the false impression and the shady association you use in your post to make as it Limiting is the same thing as what we usually refer to as Over-Compression when they aren't the same thing at all. One is necessary, the other one is unnecessary.

 

After that, some use a variety of compression techniques at various points in the chain.

 

Actually, If there's a voice, track, it is itself already recorded with some compression as well, and that's before any additional compression and limiting in the mixing and mastering stages.

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Normalisation doesn't affect the sound quality of individual tracks. It does, however, kill inter-track dynamics in an album.

 

And that's not even a bother usually. But I have one album where one track is way too low compared to the rest in Andrea Bocelli's excellent 'Cieli Di Toscana' which is a little bothersome, because I have to manually re-adjust the volume before and after.

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The only backwards thing here is how you post exactly the same thing as I do regarding Over-compression (very bad for sound quality) and Normalisation (doesn't affect SQ at all), but preface it with 'I think you have it backwards here' as if you're posting something totally new.

 

Now, the single thing you refer as infinite compression is a usually necessary step in mastering when it comes to digital material so as to prevent digital clipping - that's why you'll often (if not all the time) find a limiter in a Mastering chain.

 

If you can avoid limiting, then go for it, but what you do not want, ever, is clipping/distortion at the Mastering process and have that stored in the final material. In the case it has to be done to avoid clipping, then it's unavoidable.

 

And when used, Limiting is used sparingly, only to avoid a handful of biggest peaks to make the sound distort, it isn't used the way Compression is misused, i.e. over-used in some recordings, squashing the dynamic range completely. So using the terms 'infinite compression', while technically correct, gives you the false impression and the shady association you use in your post to make as it Limiting is the same thing as what we usually refer to as Over-Compression when they aren't the same thing at all. One is necessary, the other one is unnecessary.

 

After that, some use a variety of compression techniques at various points in the chain.

 

Actually, If there's a voice, track, it is itself already recorded with some compression as well, and that's before any additional compression and limiting in the mixing and mastering stages.

You either don't understand what limiting is or misunderstand how it is used. When you render a file in many DAWs it will tell you the peak level reached. If no clipping you are good. If it clips undo, fix the level and try again. When recording that is why you leave plenty of headroom so you don't clip.

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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You either don't understand what limiting is or misunderstand how it is used.

 

Hogwash. I know perfectly well what it is and how to use it best despite your repeated and unsuccessful attempts at portraying otherwise.

 

When you render a file in many DAWs it will tell you the peak level reached. If no clipping you are good. If it clips undo, fix the level and try again. When recording that is why you leave plenty of headroom so you don't clip.

 

Agreed, this is a way to avoid it if possible, but Limiting isn't solely used in digital recordings as you imply...

 

I don't think you really understand the many facets of it.

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Hogwash. I know perfectly well what it is and how to use it best despite your repeated and unsuccessful attempts at portraying otherwise.

 

 

 

Agreed, this is a way to avoid it if possible, but Limiting isn't solely used in digital recordings as you imply...

 

I don't think you really understand the many facets of it.

 

Limiting typically is suggested for use only in the mastering stage. Isn't the only time it is used. Some use it mixing, some even use it recording. I find for myself it changes the way tracks sound. Usually not in a good way in my opinion. As you don't really need it at the mastering stage to prevent clipping (and hard limiting and clipping aren't so different) I don't find it a good practice. Since it isn't needed to prevent clipping as it is commonly used well, I say that isn't the normal use of it. I say it is used to increase basic loudness and perhaps to achieve a particular sound even if I myself don't like that sound.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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