tboooe Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Anyone get a chance to buy this and analyze it? Curious to see if the DR is good or compressed. I am listening to it now via Amazon Prime and I dig it! Will probably just buy the high res version anyway. EDIT: Should have checked the DR database: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/116397 Data doesnt look too bad. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
tboooe Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 BTW, the DR I linked to above is for the Target exclusive CD. Not sure if the high res version would have different DR values. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
jvlata Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 96/24 = dr10 Just for music:Mac Mini 2.3 GHz Intel Core i5 60GB SSD, 16GB RAM (Mid 2011) OS X El Capitan 10.11.3 > WD NAS 6TB > Audirvana+>Roon Server > HQPlayer >iPad for Roon Remote> Teac UD-503 DAC > Audio Quest Cinnamon USB cable > Cambridge Audio Azur 840C > Cambridge Audio Azur 840A > Polk LSi 15 > DIY Speaker Cables. Link to comment
firedog Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Very unlikely hi-res version will have lower DR than the CD. The opposite is more likely. DR of 10 is very good these days (unfortunately) for something intended for the mass market. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
jazz01 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 they are almost identical (unfortunately) - both have DR10 Link to comment
mansr Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 they are almost identical (unfortunately) - both have DR10 DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound. Most good albums have a spread of several dB in peak level by track. Link to comment
jvlata Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound. Most good albums have a spread of several dB in peak level by track. +1 Just for music:Mac Mini 2.3 GHz Intel Core i5 60GB SSD, 16GB RAM (Mid 2011) OS X El Capitan 10.11.3 > WD NAS 6TB > Audirvana+>Roon Server > HQPlayer >iPad for Roon Remote> Teac UD-503 DAC > Audio Quest Cinnamon USB cable > Cambridge Audio Azur 840C > Cambridge Audio Azur 840A > Polk LSi 15 > DIY Speaker Cables. Link to comment
jazz01 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Peak levels differ slightly between both versions (see link above for the CD data): foobar2000 1.3.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2016-10-08 21:35:57 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Norah Jones / Day Breaks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR10 -0.35 dB -12.58 dB 4:39 01-Burn DR9 -0.23 dB -11.71 dB 4:15 02-Tragedy DR7 0.00 dB -9.10 dB 3:41 03-Flipside DR12 -0.39 dB -15.01 dB 3:54 04-It's A Wonderful Time For Love DR11 -0.39 dB -14.79 dB 3:06 05-And Then There Was You DR9 0.00 dB -11.21 dB 5:36 06-Don’t Be Denied DR9 -0.19 dB -12.11 dB 3:58 07-Day Breaks DR11 -0.32 dB -14.03 dB 5:15 08-Peace DR10 -0.33 dB -12.16 dB 3:13 09-Once I Had A Laugh DR11 -0.39 dB -14.37 dB 3:08 10-Sleeping Wild DR10 -0.38 dB -12.67 dB 2:48 11-Carry On DR12 0.00 dB -14.98 dB 5:22 12-Fleurette Africaine (African Flower) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 12 Official DR value: DR10 Samplerate: 96000 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 24 Bitrate: 4608 kbps Codec: PCM ========================================== Link to comment
hornytoad Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I bought the 24/96 flac version and it's better than the Tidal redbook version . I can't get over though how Norah's voice has some sibilance when she hits the high notes . I recording of the vocals could have been improved . Nice album . Link to comment
orgel Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound. Most good albums have a spread of several dB in peak level by track. +2. The wave forms (as rendered in Roon) suggest that this is the case. Still and all, I think it's a pretty fine album. Wayne Shorter (my musical hero) plays on a bunch of tracks, as does Lonnie Smith. Brian Blade plays drums on most (all?) of the tracks, and the pianist and bass player from his band play on a number of the tunes. John Patitucci plays bass on a couple of tracks. Norah's written some really great songs for this album, and they mesh very well with the standards. Love the Ellington cover. --David Listening Room: Mac mini (Roon Core) > iMac (HQP) > exaSound PlayPoint (as NAA) > exaSound e32 > W4S STP-SE > Benchmark AHB2 > Wilson Sophia Series 2 (Details) Office: Mac Pro > AudioQuest DragonFly Red > JBL LSR305 Mobile: iPhone 6S > AudioQuest DragonFly Black > JH Audio JH5 Link to comment
mkrzych Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Go for vinyl: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed folder: Day Breaks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -8.52 dB -22.33 dB 01-Burn.wav DR11 -8.89 dB -22.70 dB 02-Tragedy.wav DR11 -6.49 dB -19.74 dB 03-Flipside.wav DR12 -10.01 dB -25.80 dB 04-It's A Wonderful Time For Love.wav DR12 -10.73 dB -25.63 dB 05-And Then There Was You.wav DR11 -8.00 dB -21.98 dB 06-Don't Be Denied.wav DR11 -4.62 dB -22.14 dB 07-Day Breaks.wav DR12 -9.91 dB -25.00 dB 08-Peace.wav DR11 -9.83 dB -23.01 dB 09-Once I Had A Laugh.wav DR11 -10.25 dB -25.15 dB 10-Sleeping Wild.wav DR11 -9.35 dB -23.54 dB 11-Carry On.wav DR12 -9.84 dB -25.76 dB 12-Fleurette Africaine.wav ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 12 Official DR value: DR12 ============================================================================================== It's quite usual nowadays that vinyl could have better DR. The same is for the latest Yello Toy album - better on vinyl. -- Krzysztof Maj http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/ "Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata Link to comment
jazzy1 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Go for vinyl: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed folder: Day Breaks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -8.52 dB -22.33 dB 01-Burn.wav DR11 -8.89 dB -22.70 dB 02-Tragedy.wav DR11 -6.49 dB -19.74 dB 03-Flipside.wav DR12 -10.01 dB -25.80 dB 04-It's A Wonderful Time For Love.wav DR12 -10.73 dB -25.63 dB 05-And Then There Was You.wav DR11 -8.00 dB -21.98 dB 06-Don't Be Denied.wav DR11 -4.62 dB -22.14 dB 07-Day Breaks.wav DR12 -9.91 dB -25.00 dB 08-Peace.wav DR11 -9.83 dB -23.01 dB 09-Once I Had A Laugh.wav DR11 -10.25 dB -25.15 dB 10-Sleeping Wild.wav DR11 -9.35 dB -23.54 dB 11-Carry On.wav DR12 -9.84 dB -25.76 dB 12-Fleurette Africaine.wav ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 12 Official DR value: DR12 ============================================================================================== It's quite usual nowadays that vinyl could have better DR. The same is for the latest Yello Toy album - better on vinyl. Vinyl with the same master will always be 2-3 Db better, and sound about the same. Link to comment
mkrzych Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Vinyl with the same master will always be 2-3 Db better, and sound about the same. Kinda agree, but b definition, one decibel (1 dB) represents the smallest change in volume a human ear can perceive. The average ear, however, can only detect a 3 dB change and it depends what is the initial level to hear clearly the difference. 3dB may by actually quite audible in plus. Additionally, RMS values are more differentiated than from CD/download which is also in plus IMHO. -- Krzysztof Maj http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/ "Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata Link to comment
mansr Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Kinda agree, but b definition, one decibel (1 dB) represents the smallest change in volume a human ear can perceive. There is no such definition. 1 dB has a precise mathematical meaning. It is merely a coincidence that 1 dB is roughly the smallest change in sound level that is readily perceived under ordinary conditions. Link to comment
Solid-State Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 It's quite usual nowadays that vinyl could have better DR. The same is for the latest Yello Toy album - better on vinyl. I love that record on Vinyl. it amazing ;-) Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Is anyone who already has the album interested in hearing a less compressed version of the title track for comparison purposes ? (.wav file) PM me if you are. Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
YashN Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 DR10 isn't necessarily bad. What's disappointing is that all the tracks have almost exactly the same peak level. That suggests they have been limited and normalised which tends to result in a boring sound. Over-compression is a far bigger problem SQ-wise than limiting or normalisation. Limiting is usually a normal processing step in the mastering chain. Normalisation doesn't make the sound boring at all either. And neither does limiting. Over-compressed, that, on the other hand, sounds quite bad, maybe you could say boring in this case in certain instances. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
esldude Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Over-compression is a far bigger problem SQ-wise than limiting or normalisation. Limiting is usually a normal processing step in the mastering chain. Normalisation doesn't make the sound boring at all either. And neither does limiting. Over-compressed, that, on the other hand, sounds quite bad, maybe you could say boring in this case in certain instances. I think you have it a bit backwards there. Normalization doesn't bother me. A little compression probably not. Heavy compression yes. Limiting....well you could call it infinite compression. A very much larger issue sound quality wise than compression. You have soft and hard limiters, but limiters are worse for sound quality than compression. Normalization really would do nothing to sound quality for the most part. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
mansr Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I think you have it a bit backwards there. Normalization doesn't bother me. A little compression probably not. Heavy compression yes. Limiting....well you could call it infinite compression. A very much larger issue sound quality wise than compression. You have soft and hard limiters, but limiters are worse for sound quality than compression. Normalization really would do nothing to sound quality for the most part. Normalisation doesn't affect the sound quality of individual tracks. It does, however, kill inter-track dynamics in an album. Link to comment
firedog Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Normalisation doesn't affect the sound quality of individual tracks. It does, however, kill inter-track dynamics in an album. Everytime I've tried normalizing music, it sounds a little flat to me. I always regret it and remove the normalization. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
YashN Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I think you have it a bit backwards there. Normalization doesn't bother me. A little compression probably not. Heavy compression yes. Limiting....well you could call it infinite compression. A very much larger issue sound quality wise than compression. You have soft and hard limiters, but limiters are worse for sound quality than compression. Normalization really would do nothing to sound quality for the most part. The only backwards thing here is how you post exactly the same thing as I do regarding Over-compression (very bad for sound quality) and Normalisation (doesn't affect SQ at all), but preface it with 'I think you have it backwards here' as if you're posting something totally new. Now, the single thing you refer as infinite compression is a usually necessary step in mastering when it comes to digital material so as to prevent digital clipping - that's why you'll often (if not all the time) find a limiter in a Mastering chain. If you can avoid limiting, then go for it, but what you do not want, ever, is clipping/distortion at the Mastering process and have that stored in the final material. In the case it has to be done to avoid clipping, then it's unavoidable. And when used, Limiting is used sparingly, only to avoid a handful of biggest peaks to make the sound distort, it isn't used the way Compression is misused, i.e. over-used in some recordings, squashing the dynamic range completely. So using the terms 'infinite compression', while technically correct, gives you the false impression and the shady association you use in your post to make as it Limiting is the same thing as what we usually refer to as Over-Compression when they aren't the same thing at all. One is necessary, the other one is unnecessary. After that, some use a variety of compression techniques at various points in the chain. Actually, If there's a voice, track, it is itself already recorded with some compression as well, and that's before any additional compression and limiting in the mixing and mastering stages. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
YashN Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Normalisation doesn't affect the sound quality of individual tracks. It does, however, kill inter-track dynamics in an album. And that's not even a bother usually. But I have one album where one track is way too low compared to the rest in Andrea Bocelli's excellent 'Cieli Di Toscana' which is a little bothersome, because I have to manually re-adjust the volume before and after. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
esldude Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 The only backwards thing here is how you post exactly the same thing as I do regarding Over-compression (very bad for sound quality) and Normalisation (doesn't affect SQ at all), but preface it with 'I think you have it backwards here' as if you're posting something totally new. Now, the single thing you refer as infinite compression is a usually necessary step in mastering when it comes to digital material so as to prevent digital clipping - that's why you'll often (if not all the time) find a limiter in a Mastering chain. If you can avoid limiting, then go for it, but what you do not want, ever, is clipping/distortion at the Mastering process and have that stored in the final material. In the case it has to be done to avoid clipping, then it's unavoidable. And when used, Limiting is used sparingly, only to avoid a handful of biggest peaks to make the sound distort, it isn't used the way Compression is misused, i.e. over-used in some recordings, squashing the dynamic range completely. So using the terms 'infinite compression', while technically correct, gives you the false impression and the shady association you use in your post to make as it Limiting is the same thing as what we usually refer to as Over-Compression when they aren't the same thing at all. One is necessary, the other one is unnecessary. After that, some use a variety of compression techniques at various points in the chain. Actually, If there's a voice, track, it is itself already recorded with some compression as well, and that's before any additional compression and limiting in the mixing and mastering stages. You either don't understand what limiting is or misunderstand how it is used. When you render a file in many DAWs it will tell you the peak level reached. If no clipping you are good. If it clips undo, fix the level and try again. When recording that is why you leave plenty of headroom so you don't clip. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Computer Audiophile mobile app And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
YashN Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 You either don't understand what limiting is or misunderstand how it is used. Hogwash. I know perfectly well what it is and how to use it best despite your repeated and unsuccessful attempts at portraying otherwise. When you render a file in many DAWs it will tell you the peak level reached. If no clipping you are good. If it clips undo, fix the level and try again. When recording that is why you leave plenty of headroom so you don't clip. Agreed, this is a way to avoid it if possible, but Limiting isn't solely used in digital recordings as you imply... I don't think you really understand the many facets of it. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
esldude Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Hogwash. I know perfectly well what it is and how to use it best despite your repeated and unsuccessful attempts at portraying otherwise. Agreed, this is a way to avoid it if possible, but Limiting isn't solely used in digital recordings as you imply... I don't think you really understand the many facets of it. Limiting typically is suggested for use only in the mastering stage. Isn't the only time it is used. Some use it mixing, some even use it recording. I find for myself it changes the way tracks sound. Usually not in a good way in my opinion. As you don't really need it at the mastering stage to prevent clipping (and hard limiting and clipping aren't so different) I don't find it a good practice. Since it isn't needed to prevent clipping as it is commonly used well, I say that isn't the normal use of it. I say it is used to increase basic loudness and perhaps to achieve a particular sound even if I myself don't like that sound. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
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