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6 hours ago, quark said:

Hi DancingSea,

 Have you used IRC with Luxe yet?

Surely that will take Amarra Luxe to a level above A+

 

Haven't tried IRC yet as the cost is higher than I'm currently comfortable allocating to the Sonic Studio universe. In what way did it improve your system?

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53 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

Me personally I don't think "RetroQ" is the right tool to re- create Amarra-like sound. This is why I did not post it here (ddalmas did).

To add warmth on overall mixes (the final music) I'd rather recommend "Mix Saturator2" with very moderate settings... http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dynamic_processors/psp_mixsaturator2/

PSP_MixSaturator2.png

... but personally I think it does not really match our requirements regarding an emulation of Amarra-Sound (apart from that it's a really GREAT tool!!). It also slightly blurrs deep bass... just like real tube amps do.

BTW... there are  other vendors offering "analog" sounding plugins... it just happened that I've came across PSP some years ago and simply LOVED the sound and the handling (simplicity!) of its plugins. Great design ... IMHO...

 

On several thin sounding 80th recordings I also would prefer a higher setting on the analog pre-amp drive. However, I don't want to adjust plugins every time I listen to a different album. This is why I prefer a lower setting (+3.5).

 

I'm glad you like it. I am also really enjoying A+ with preQursor2 for rock/pop/electronic music (95% in my case...). For classical/orchestral music listening sessions I favour HQPlayer upsampled to DSD128...

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  Can MixSaturator2 be bought separately, or do you have to buy the whole pack?

 

Also, I see it adds saturation to achieve the tube like effect.  preQursor2 also has a saturation feature, is that the same sort of thing?

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8 hours ago, ddalmas said:

 

7 all the controversies of mine in this forum were just intended to this :  why we have to complicate our life to search alternatives to A4 just because it is almost not usable ,when life could be so simple only with a little further effort form SS staff?A4  could be, in this  actual times, the best for listening to music from a mac...this is  the unbelievable and we  continue in turning around pre, eq and players!!! this makes me in real anger.

 

Of course, what you've written is true.  However, wishing doesn't make it so.  The "what is" is that Amarra 4 is an idiot savant, and short of an epiphany, likely to remain firmly in that lane for the foreseeable future.  Which leaves two choices, cope with A4's issues and or find an alternative.

 

I like the A+ with preQursor option, though not sold that it sounds better than A4.  It does bring peace of mind, which is worth something.  

 

Until the day Amarra 4 reaches its full potential, the "what is" dictates we resume our regularly scheduled programming of tweaks and hacks.

 

C'est la vie!

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5 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

I have to say I can very well live with Audirvana & preQursor2 and will definitely NOT upgrade to Luxe... unless they fix this amateurish piece of software. Only downside with AU/VST-plugins ... they cannot be applied to DSD files. So if you want Amarra-like sound with DSD... you'd need a working version of Amarra.

 

 

I've been using Luxe for the past couple of weeks.  There are a few minor improvements to the functionality, but it largely remains the same as A4.  Two large, and I find helpful differences are the EQ and the iOS remote - both of which work fairly well.  I like being able to easily tweak sound with the EQ, and the iOS remote saves me a trip across the room.  For that reason, I will upgrade to Luxe.  The caveat being it remains an idiot savant with many afore mentioned functional shortcomings.

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10 minutes ago, tipunch said:

Thank you DancingSea,

But, how are the SQ with DSD files (via DOP)?
Best regards

 

My supply of DSD files is limited to American Beauty, Workingman's Dead, and the entire 2016 Dead & Company summer tour.  They sound very good in A4 Luxe, keeping in mind the first two are nearly 50 year old recordings, and the summer tour is live stuff that was not remastered properly, instead just taken straight off the soundboard and posted for download the next day - which is to say they aren't the pinnacle of sound quality to start with - though still good.

 

I assume the Luxe trial will be available fairly soon - or not (g).  Will be interested to hear your thoughts.

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4 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

But you are aware that you get the same functionality with A+? The A+ iOS remote is pretty decent. And EQ ... well, preQursor2 is excellent not only to sweaten the overall sound but of course also as a full-blown EQ ;-)

Too, you have the choice to use an EQ in real time or you can deactivate the real-time setting. In the latter case (which is the default) the processing chain is: file-decoding -> uspampling (if engaged) -> AUplugins -> load into RAM. So A+ first renders all effects before it plays back the (processed) music from RAM with some time offset... which by design contributes to a better sound.

 

Yes, I am aware of those things.  As mentioned, I like the A+ preQursor2 combo, but still feel Amarra 4 sounds better thus have no plans to abandon it.  Also, as I've written a few times in this thread, I have an Amarra 4 system I devised which uses Amarra 4 as a player only which bypasses many of the functionality shortcomings of using A4 as a library manager.

 

I'm breaking in the new PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC for the next few days.  Once broken in, I'll return to evaluating the A+/ preQursor2 combo to decide is spending another $69 makes sense.  If I go for it, will still use Amarra regularly and have the other around as an alternative.

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6 hours ago, quark said:

 It's 9 June and my audiophile senses are tingling, anyone got any news on a release yet? 

 I'm desperately looking forward to using IRC again 

 

Write to Ralph and ask to added to the beta test group.  I'm sure they'll help you.

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1 hour ago, GregWormald said:

 

I'm in the beta test group and haven't had a communication in over a month. I wonder what I did wrong. Maybe they didn't like my feedback--or maybe it's a bug in their software.

 

Greg

 

The new version came out about a week or so ago. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not sure, but can say the beta window was just extended.  My guess would be release towards the end of the summer.  Sound quality remains stellar, the the library management system remains inadequate.  The program is very stable though.  Last night I compared SQ to A+, Fidelia, and Bit Perfect.  Luxe remains the SQ champ.

 

It would be very nice to have an iTunes integration mode, like Audirvana has.  That way one could choose whether or not to hassle with the problematic in house library setup.  Amarra Hi Fi achieves iTunes integration with few issues, so it can be done.  I just see little light at the end of the Amarra 4 library system tunnel.

 

Back to A+, I added the  Voxengo Tube Amp plugin to the Preqursor2 plugin.  With initial listening, it sounded even more to my liking that the Preqursor2 alone.

 

Does anyone know of other tube amp plugins that work well with A+?

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Yes, I really hope Sonic Studios hears our simple feedback - to please not force us to use their utterly inadequate library management system.  Sure, give it as an option, but also provide an iTunes integration mode.  The A4 library system is so woeful, that this weekend I plan to audition 5 or 6 tube amp Audirvana plugins (to go with the Preqursor2 EQ) to get the A+ sound close enough to Amara that A+ can become my player of choice.

 

Having an A4 Luxe iTunes integration mode - that works well - would alleviate my need to explore Audirvana so thoroughly.  The Preqursor2 plugin costs $70, and I'm seriously considering buying it after the trial.  Yes, willing to spend more than the cost of the Luxe upgrade on a plugin for A+.

 

I think I need an intervention...

 

 

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48 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

hi sea dancer...i suggest to you not to buy for now preqursor2 as i believe i have found something equal or better and ....free!! tomorrow i will investigate test them and i will come back to this forum...for now i have had sound that seems to me even better that a4 but i not still sure! ciao ciao

 

Aloha our Italian Friend,

 

Awesome!  Yes, I have been hesitant to buy Preqursor2 - its awfully expensive.  When listening to it with A+, even though I think it sounds very good - I run into the same problem I aways have with A+.  Relaxed, easy going, smoother music sounds wonderful.  Rock music is way way too aggressive in A+ while much more palatable in A4.

 

Ciao,

John

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47 minutes ago, Vinbob said:

Hello all - is there an Amarra 4 Luxe beta out there for one to play and test with? I am currently an A+ user but would like to see how the two compare in terms of sound quality etc. 

 

Cheers,

Vin.

 

There is.  Just write to Ralph and Sonic Studios, say you are from CA, and ask him to set you up.  There is a beta for A4 Luxe and the Remote.  As has been expressed ad nauseam, A 4 Luxe SQ is excellent, stability is good - library management is woeful.

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13 minutes ago, Vinbob said:

 

Much appreciated and will do! - What are the issues with the library management? That's a real shame just when things are looking a lot sexier than the previous version/s... :|

 

I suggest reviewing this thread from the start.  The issues are well covered.

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2 hours ago, mancolh said:

Perhaps all this talk of how to make Audirvana+ sound bearable should be taken to A+ threads. This thread was about the A4 release and the upcoming Luxe.

 

A reasonable suggestion.  However, several of us Amarra 4 users have been discussing how to make A+ sound like Amarra - as a sort of mental health measure to cope with our struggles with A4.  Thus its a very specific discussion related to getting the great Amarra SQ out of A+, which very well may not be possible.  The straight up A+ folks would be even more offended by our ongoing discussion and say "why don't you take this to the Amarra thread."  

 

So yes, we're bending the thread topic police rules a little bit.  But there's really no other place for us to go.  And the topic of getting A4 sound out of the far more functional A+ has endured for several weeks now.

 

We thank you for your understanding and cooperation as we resume our regularly scheduled program.

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4 hours ago, ddalmas said:

 

2 hours ago, ddalmas said:

then try this :lkjb_Luftikus.component  and tell me

I am only talking about the first step of the possible  chain

lkjb_Luftikus.component.zip

always free obviously

 

 

5 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

Harshness + "digital" sound... I agree!

Apart from the use of plugins to massage the sound I feel A+ sounds remarkably better and smoother with 1.) Direct Mode disabled (to utilze MACs native integer mode, not Audirvanas own driver), 2.) overall gain reduced to at least -3db (independend of the DAC used) and 3.) a decent USB filter (I for one use the Intona USB isolator... and would regard it as one of the most worthwhile upgrades to my system). (And 4.) the SRC settings play a role in case you are upsampling).

Even if you don't use any other plugins I also feel A+ sounds less harsh if you apply 24bit Dither (TPDF will do) in the AUplugin section of A+ (at least when your DAC is 24bit).

If you use plugins they typically work at 64bit internally and in this case applying Dither after your plugins is more or less mandatory. So if you think about using preQursor2 and/or tube/warmth simulation plugins you should also look for a 24bit Dither plugin.

 

 

Good work ddalmas, will give them a try.  Will also try the copy_of_a tweaks.  Thanks to you both.

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1 hour ago, ddalmas said:

hi thks for your replying...... yes i know it is too much what i did but it was intended just to give sense of the plugins used than i wait suggestions from you all to define the better way to use them as the A4 sound could be well reached with A+.so pull off pull in any plugin , make any other adjustments everybody will  then post the changes as everybody could realize and work ....but consider that maybe only with one could be very hard to define every side of sound!! so i put there 2  plugins similar to preQrsor2 with the great ,and not negligible, difference  that they are completely free (PSP costs 65!) and that they seem to sound also very well ,to my ears obviously.Voxengo tube amp was suggested by dancing sea and i think it is a great goal...the last one leaves me some perplexity but it is still worth to be tested by everyone who wants .....it add that something of indefinable to the final sound (better? worst?) that keeps me in the opinion of still dogging around it, with you all better than alone. Maybe the knobs have to be still moderated, but now i see a good and easyer path ahead.

ciaociao

 

 

Aloha ddalmas,

 

Did you see the great links Copy_of_a shared the thread about tube amp plugins?  Here they are:

 

https://ledgernote.com/columns/mixing-mastering/what-is-tape-saturation-best-plugins/

http://blog.landr.com/8-free-vst-plugins-warm-sound/

http://getthatprosound.com/16-of-the-best-saturation-plugins-in-the-world/

 

Copy_of-a is a good guide for us, I've read things he's posted in other threads and he really knows his stuff.  The article about tape saturation is excellent.  I downloaded several of the free plugins (see attached photo).  As mentioned, I've used Voxengo Tube Amp before.  While it seemed ok, it was not enough to elevate A+ to the Amarra level.  The too expensive PSP preQursor2 helped, but I'm hesitant on the price.  

 

The advice of not over processing is very good.  One advantage of Amarra is that whatever monkeying around Sonic Studios has done results in a very professional, cohesive sound.  Too many A+ plugins all jacked up on high settings is going end up with a distorted experience.

 

I also like simplicity.  While I haven't had time to test it, but based upon just reading, I'm very interested in the SoftTube Saturation Knob.  You have to jump through hoops to get it (create SoftTube account, iLok and Gobble2 - and link all 3 together).  It has 3 settings to decide on which part of the spectrum to apply the effect, and then a lone knob to decide how much saturation to apply.

 

I'm interested to try Tokyo Dawn Labs's TDR VOS SlickEQ which in the "linear" section has presets like "silky" and simple knobs to adjust the treble.  The others in the attached photos look interesting as well.

 

Will report more as I have time to experiment with the sound.

 

An Amarra 4 Luxe iTunes integration mode would be lovely at this point.  It is fun doing all of the adjustment of plugins in A+, but its also easy to get compulsive and I end up getting lost in plugin adjusting and not enjoy the music itself.

 

Please note that I obviously don't run all these plugins at once!  Its just a stable in which to experiment.

 

Screen Shot 2017-06-25 at 7.33.38 AM.png

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On June 24, 2017 at 2:01 AM, copy_of_a said:

Harshness + "digital" sound... I agree!

Apart from the use of plugins to massage the sound I feel A+ sounds remarkably better and smoother with 1.) Direct Mode disabled (to utilze MACs native integer mode, not Audirvanas own driver), 2.) overall gain reduced to at least -3db (independend of the DAC used) and 3.) a decent USB filter (I for one use the Intona USB isolator... and would regard it as one of the most worthwhile upgrades to my system). (And 4.) the SRC settings play a role in case you are upsampling).

Even if you don't use any other plugins I also feel A+ sounds less harsh if you apply 24bit Dither (TPDF will do) in the AUplugin section of A+ (at least when your DAC is 24bit).

If you use plugins they typically work at 64bit internally and in this case applying Dither after your plugins is more or less mandatory. So if you think about using preQursor2 and/or tube/warmth simulation plugins you should also look for a 24bit Dither plugin.

 

 

Thanks for these tips.  I've made the adjustments you suggest.  The only one I can't figure out is the "apply 24bit Dither (TPDF will do) in the AUplugin seciont of A+." 

 

Is there one such existing plugin?  I looked through the AU list but didn't see anything about 24 bit (maybe I missed it).  Or are you referring to a 3rd party plugin that must be installed like the various tube/ saturation plugins?  If yes, can you suggest a good 24bit Dither plugin?

 

My DAC is a brand new PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell.  I have an iFi Nano USB filter arriving on Monday.

 

And what about A+ Integer mode?  Which setting for that to inch in the Amarra direction?

 

Mahalo From Maui

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33 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

Most people here found preQursor2's price tag at $69,- too high. In addition (inspired by your discussion about tube-like saturation) I've throwed in a saturation plugin that is another $199,-. So I fear my personal settings are not really relevant here...

However, preQursor2's analogue pre-amp at +8, output gain -3db, SAT enabled ... and after that a (smooth) tube-like saturation plugin at very, very moderate settings (and finally 24bit Dither) will do most likely the same.

In any case I can't share anything that does not include preQursor2 as the main plugin ...

 

 

Yes, please don't let our complaining about the cost of preQursor2 deter you from sharing your entire esteemed recipe.  I'm very happy to pay the $69 - though of course one can't help but look for freebies.

 

I like preQursor2 quite a bit.  It certainly improves A+ a great deal.  But as our Italian friend has pointed out, preQursor2 alone hasn't moved the needle entirely to the "eject A4" notch.  I tried the Voxengo tube amp along with preQursor2, but I wasn't so thrilled with Voxengo.  Because its not quite there, then why spend the money on preQursor2?  

 

Now the path has led to a whole pile of saturation plugins to explore to see if we can get A+ to a satisfactory level.

 

Thus copy_of_a, please do share your entire A+ recipe, ingredients, cooking times, and techniques. With my preqursor2 trial running out in a week, it would be great to add the magic sauce before all turns back into a pumpkin.

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5 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

I have not installed Saturation Knob. The registration process is a nightmare...

 

Maybe.

PSP states about their preQursor2: "In every usage case, PSP preQursor2 will maintain the natural feel and definition of the material." Now, you can dismiss this as marketing talk. But IMHO it's not (just) marketing ... it's exactly what I like so much about this plugin. I am a bit biased, since I own version 1 of preQursor (so preQursor2 was a free upgrade for me) and I was really blown away by the improved analog modelling algorithm when version 2 came out a few weeks ago. I'm not so sure that you can re-create this very sound with other satuation plugins (but of course you can come to similar results).

Why not try preQursor2 with my settings and in addition this one: https://klanghelm.com/contents/products/IVGI/IVGI.php  ?

I'll try the Klnghelm plugin as well in the next days... the feature set looks promising (hopefully it also sounds good...)

 

 

 

Yes, will give all a try for sure.  What is your tube plugin of choice?

 

Yes, Saturation Knob was a chore to register.  I contacted them, their whole system was messed up.  The problem has been fixed.  But it is strange to have to create an account with SoftTube, install Gobbler2, and link it all to an iLok account to download one free plugin.

 

It just shows how thirsty we are to squeeze a decent analog sound of the digital tree we find ourselves so high up in.

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2 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

Since you've found Klanghelm MJUCjr (which is a compressor) you might better try the free Klanghelm IVGI (which is designed to add saturation): https://klanghelm.com/contents/products/IVGI/IVGI.php

I have a different tool so I haven't tried IVGI yet ... but will certainly look into it sooner or later. Personally I am missing a "Mix" knob ("dry/wet") to blend the unprocessed music with the effect. But as you are looking for simplicity this plugin might be (almost) as easy to use as the Softube Saturation Knob.

 

 

I've installed the Klanghelm IVGI.  I honestly have no idea what any of the knobs do!

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19 minutes ago, svart-hvitt said:

LOSING INTEREST...

 

What's wrong with "transparency", like in nothing added, nothing subtracted?

 

Has digital playback reached a level where transparency is so easily reached that you need  music players to deviate from the transparent path?

 

It seems like people are willing to spend money and efforts to go from transparency to something which suits one's individual, changing taste.

 

What happened to the taste for transparency and high fidelity?

 

I think its all a matter of personal preference rather than right or wrong.  Its about what speaks to a given individual.  Some like transparency, others like "adjustments".  So what?  To each their own.  C'est la vie.

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6 hours ago, svart-hvitt said:

 

Do all Amarra customers make their decision in the know that Amarra isn't transparent?

 

 

 

How would we go about interviewing "all Amarra customers" to determine their true motivations for their decisions?  Your statement is a red herring.  

 

I think its all way more simple.  In these modern times our libraries - often huge libraries - have been digitized.  5,000 CD's fit into the space the size of a small book and our computers have become the masters of music (hence the name of this very website).  iTunes is lacking, and because we have a part hobby - part mental condition - not to mention ridiculously expensive stereo systems, we try to achieve the best SQ we can.

 

The gatekeeper, the bridge between our thousands and thousands of dollars worth of music, and our very expensive audio gear has become these relatively inexpensive apps like Amarra.  Given we obsess over the smallest cable, it makes sense for us to get equally involved in getting the most out our music player of choice.

 

For me at least, it simply about whether or not I like the sound.  I don't think in terms of transparent or not.  Its either "me like", or "me no like."  Many of us prefer the analog sounds of our youth, yet are thrust into this digital jungle.  With no practical way out of said jungle, we attempt to turn the digital sound into the analog our hearts prefer, to redecorate the jungle.

 

Ultimately, its an unattainable quest for an illusory perfection.  A choice between one illusion or another.  One irrational fascination in a sea of irrational fascinations.  An attempt to create an emotional refuge of our choosing, a semblance or order amidst a greater world entirely out of our control.  

 

We are merely a bunch of cats, its pointless to attempt to herd us or make sense of all our behaviors.

 

And its what makes this hobby so much fun.

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5 hours ago, ddalmas said:

 

Ah i forgot this in my previous posts: just talking about iTunes A4 integration...could anyone say to me how to integrate a great flac library since iTunes does not see them?? Converting obviously is here excluded as option !! but if iTunes does not read all my library what utility has A4 iTunes integration ??

ciaociao

 

Bongiorno,

 

Over time I have faithfully converted each and every FLAC file to ALAC in order to work with iTunes.  There is no other way.  Its also a good backup system.  I have three 5 TB hard drives devoted to iTunes (2 are backups).  And two 5 TB hard drives for FLAC files (1 is backup).  I sync them together with a handy Mac app called ChronoSync Express which costs about $30 on the App Store.

 

I need to get an online backup solution established as well.  But I keep a copy of my entire library at my buddy's house figuring its unlikely both our houses are destroyed at once.

 

In the past, Amarra 3 (I believe) had an iTunes integration mode, and the choice to be independent of iTunes.  Amarra HiFi (which I own), is created to only be integrated with iTunes.  Amarra HiFi is what I used prior to A4 being released.  With large libraries, its prone to a delay between tracks, but otherwise works well.  I can use all of iTunes' great library management features and have the Amarra sound.  As you know, Amarra SQ also allows one to remain in iTunes, but I found it to be more buggy.

 

A4 sounds better, or at least my audiophile mental condition tells me it sounds better.  For some unknown reason, Sonic Studios has done away with their iTunes integration mode - even though A+ retains one.  Its nice to have the option.  Often I don't want to hassle with either the A+ or A4 internal library system.

 

And given what a chore the Amarra 4 library system is, and rather than ask Sonic Studios to suddenly be able to produce an iTunes level library system - why not keep it simple and provide the iTunes integration mode that has been around for years?

 

It won't help you with FLAC files, still have to convert to ALAC.  But it is good for our sanity!  

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I am curious if Amarra updated/ improved their sound engine with A4.  Or is it just the same sound engine as A3/ SQ etc with a more pleasing user interface - visually that is?

 

I don't see anything on the Sonic Studio touting "a new and improved sound engine."  Its all about their new interface and related features.  One would think that if the sound engine was improved, they would list that as a main selling point.

 

So maybe my perception that A4 sounds better the Amarra SQ, or Amarra 3/ HiFi is just an illusion, a product of expectation bias?

 

Does anyone know if A4 has a new sound engine?

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