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Group-Buy for Roon


duxservit
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Chris,

 

Is this a possibility ?

 

MassDrop does group-buys on hardware all the time. If N number of people here are willing to sign-up, can Roon provide each person with a discount coupon ?

 

 

 

(ps. I started a new thread because the thread on "Roon being too expensive" has devolved...)

Let every eye ear negotiate for itself and trust no agent. (Shakespeare)

The things that we love tell us what we are. (Aquinas)

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push for $300 lifetime (wink), and i will take partial credit for starting the thought...

 

Well, I was hoping that a group-buy could make Roon affordable to lots more people :-)

Let every eye ear negotiate for itself and trust no agent. (Shakespeare)

The things that we love tell us what we are. (Aquinas)

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It's hard to find a manufacturer that actually likes group-buys. I've heard horror stories about Massdrop, from a manufacturer's perspective.

 

I don't have a horse in the race, just passing on what little I know.

I would recommend he does this! Hopefully he will be able collect enough for Roon and have some left for beer...

 

10179265-Unemployed-businessman-with-a-tin-cup-begging-for-change-Isolated-on-white--Stock-Photo.jpg

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I would like to see them except the 119.00 till you reach the 500.00 lifetime.. a lot of folks can't depart with 500.00 at one time , but a yearly payment of 119.00 towards the 500.00 would be good

 

This is actually one of the best ideas I've heard on how to deal with this issue. Hopefully Roon does watch this forum.

W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs

 

Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos

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Time value of money, so this doesn't actually make sense.

 

I see the angle, but that's not how it works and financially that's not good for them. I don't want them to rob people blind, but we need Roon to be financially stable and make sustainable profit for them to continue to provide and expand their offerings.

 

The deal with accepting $119/yr vs. A one shot $500/lifetime means that in their calculations these 2 things actually have the same value over time. But by accepting A and equating it to B while following A's rules won't work, even if it sounds nice for the guy who doesn't want to shell out $500 all at once.

 

**I don't work for Roon so I don't know the cost breakdown of their fees vs. expenses, but I do do business and wanted to highlight how that doesn't make sense.

 

The only way it could make sense would maybe be with a group buy for a limited number of seats that would work that way pending enough users bought in and engaged at the same time. Maybe.

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^^^ I personally would rather see a "group buy" for the same price that others got ($350).

I would probably even buy it, even though it doesn't have features i currently want...but believing that eventually they would.

The bigger the market share they get, the faster it will grow (e.g. word of mouth is the best marketing publicity)...but maybe, like i suggested previously, they are already getting more sales than they can deal with currently.

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It's hard to find a manufacturer that actually likes group-buys. I've heard horror stories about Massdrop, from a manufacturer's perspective.

 

I don't have a horse in the race, just passing on what little I know.

 

 

Actually, I'm not suggesting that they (Roon) do this through MassDrop.

 

Since this is software distribution (i.e. downloads), Roon can manage the process themselves, through their own infra.

Let every eye ear negotiate for itself and trust no agent. (Shakespeare)

The things that we love tell us what we are. (Aquinas)

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Actually, I'm not suggesting that they (Roon) do this through MassDrop.

 

Since this is software distribution (i.e. downloads), Roon can manage the process themselves, through their own infra.

 

Then what is the difference between them just selling it at $350 on their site vs $500 "non-group buy" price?

 

With my single dealing with Massdrop for a mechanical keyboard, I will never ever use that service again.

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Then what is the difference between them just selling it at $350 on their site vs $500 "non-group buy" price?

 

With my single dealing with Massdrop for a mechanical keyboard, I will never ever use that service again.

 

If enough people here at CA put up their hands (say minimal N people), Roon could send a PM to each of those with the discount. The key question is the minimal size for N.

 

Or, perhaps with the holiday season coming up maybe Roon is planning on a sale anyways. I'm ok waiting till Christmas or New Year :-)

Let every eye ear negotiate for itself and trust no agent. (Shakespeare)

The things that we love tell us what we are. (Aquinas)

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I'd be in on it. I just couldn't swing $500.

 

I was also disappointed to find that as a 1 year subscription member, I couldn't prorate that into a Lifetime.

 

Agree on both counts! I'm sure the investment in time and money for Roon is huge but the cost is a bitter pill. Another motive for me: would love to dump JRiver for not supporting JRemote.

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I really just don't understand the cost. At its core, Roon is an alternative file management system to iTunes. That's it.

 

Roon's sound processing is just ok, as evidenced by the popularity of using HQP with it. So we're not paying $500 for Roon's sound.

 

$10 per month ought to buy us legal access to music. The same price gets 30M songs on iTunes, or half a subscription to Tidal, et al. With Roon, we get updated bios???? The bios and stuff are ok, but not worth paying an ongoing subscription fee to be provided much thinner info than can be found on a google search.

 

So why is it so expensive? Why is it not just a $50 alternative to the free iTunes? Why is it not just a one time purchase with periodic upgrades every few years?

 

$500 seems like a lot to pay for a self updating bio engine and ok file management, different than iTunes, but not markedly better.

 

I really think audiophiles are an easy mark, that's the bottomline. The endemic grass is always greener mindset leads us down very expensive roads, often with mediocre results. There's a marketing theory that in the right circles, drastically inflating the price produces sales because of the air of exclusivity. If its expensive, it must be great. If many can't afford it, must be even better. Then those who buy it have to justify their purchase, so they say its great also, and then more buy it. And on and on.

 

Of course, if folks like Roon, go for it, spend away. I have tried Roon and like a lot about it. But $500 for file management? For $500 I'd expect fantastic file management, the best sound processor on the market, and a license to stream music. Simply makes no sense to me.

 

Oy vey.

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I really just don't understand the cost. At its core, Roon is an alternative file management system to iTunes. That's it.

 

That explains the first sentence...

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I really just don't understand the cost. At its core, Roon is an alternative file management system to iTunes. That's it.

 

Roon's sound processing is just ok, as evidenced by the popularity of using HQP with it. So we're not paying $500 for Roon's sound.

 

$10 per month ought to buy us legal access to music. The same price gets 30M songs on iTunes, or half a subscription to Tidal, et al. With Roon, we get updated bios???? The bios and stuff are ok, but not worth paying an ongoing subscription fee to be provided much thinner info than can be found on a google search.

 

So why is it so expensive? Why is it not just a $50 alternative to the free iTunes? Why is it not just a one time purchase with periodic upgrades every few years?

 

$500 seems like a lot to pay for a self updating bio engine and ok file management, different than iTunes, but not markedly better.

 

I really think audiophiles are an easy mark, that's the bottomline. The endemic grass is always greener mindset leads us down very expensive roads, often with mediocre results. There's a marketing theory that in the right circles, drastically inflating the price produces sales because of the air of exclusivity. If its expensive, it must be great. If many can't afford it, must be even better. Then those who buy it have to justify their purchase, so they say its great also, and then more buy it. And on and on.

 

Of course, if folks like Roon, go for it, spend away. I have tried Roon and like a lot about it. But $500 for file management? For $500 I'd expect fantastic file management, the best sound processor on the market, and a license to stream music. Simply makes no sense to me.

 

Oy vey.

 

The features of Roon that are VERY appealing to many appealing or interesting to you. That's fine. I'm not sure why you then feel a need to put down others for being people who buy mediocre products and like them because they are overpriced.

 

I and many others find the UI and features of Roon compelling and that it significantly adds to our enjoyment of our music playback. It's not "an alternative file management system", as you dismiss it. For those of us that like it, it isn't overpriced - expensive maybe - but a worthwhile value. Certainly part of the appeal is that I stay immersed in my music and don't have to start doing multiple Google searches to find out info that Roon gives me. And it goes far beyond bios, I guess you didn't figure that part out.

 

Comparison to iTunes? Don't make me laugh! iTunes is a clunky user experience that is trying to get you to buy stuff from Apple constantly. I wouldn't use iTunes if you paid me the cost of Roon per month to use it.

 

As far as SQ, I think the criticism of Roon is overblown. It isn't inferior to the sound of other playback programs. Yes a lot of people use HQP with it. But that's because HQP has unique upsampling abilities that no other playback program has, not only Roon. If other playback programs agreed to integrate HQP's abilities, I'm sure some people would use them instead of Roon. The HQP integration simply shows how much the team at Roon is interested in giving users the best available sound option, as neither they nor any of the other programs on the market can offer the specific features that HQP does.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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The features of Roon that are VERY appealing to many appealing or interesting to you. That's fine. I'm not sure why you then feel a need to put down others for being people who buy mediocre products and like them because they are overpriced. .

 

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no right or wrong here, its very subjective.

 

I like Roon and agree its presentation is very compelling. Roon does many things well. Just find $500 to be absurd for a market that ranges from free - $150. Roon does file management/ presentation much better than Fidelia, Amarra, or even A+. In my opinion, its the only thing Roon does better. The question is if Roon is worth $500 for a better presentation of music?

 

For me, its a resounding no. That's not taking anything away from Roon, its a cool product and I would happily buy it if its pricing was more in line with the market.

 

If you feel its worth $500, then go for it.

 

And yes, I do like iTunes for managing my music, works very well. Roon is different, but I don't personally find it being drastically better. Just better in some ways, and less so in others.

 

I believe A+ and Amarra, for instance, have a better grasp on the market value of their products. I find Roon's pricing to be disrespectful towards their customers and preying on the economic disease the audiophile can easily turn into. That's not putting anyone down, its more of an observation about the nature of the beast.

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The features of Roon that are VERY appealing to many appealing or interesting to you. That's fine. I'm not sure why you then feel a need to put down others for being people who buy mediocre products and like them because they are overpriced.

A very valid point firedog ... but then why do you have to do the same to users of iTunes...

 

Comparison to iTunes? Don't make me laugh! iTunes is a clunky user experience that is trying to get you to buy stuff from Apple constantly. I wouldn't use iTunes if you paid me the cost of Roon per month to use it.

That second quote paragraph kind of defeats your moral high ground established in the first!

 

To the OP's point over the general cost ... they say the cost is down to the fee per user they are charged by Rovi for the data ... how much thats true I don't know.

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no right or wrong here, its very subjective.

 

I like Roon and agree its presentation is very compelling. Roon does many things well. Just find $500 to be absurd for a market that ranges from free - $150. Roon does file management/ presentation much better than Fidelia, Amarra, or even A+. In my opinion, its the only thing Roon does better. The question is if Roon is worth $500 for a better presentation of music?

 

For me, its a resounding no. That's not taking anything away from Roon, its a cool product and I would happily buy it if its pricing was more in line with the market.

 

If you feel its worth $500, then go for it.

 

And yes, I do like iTunes for managing my music, works very well. Roon is different, but I don't personally find it being drastically better. Just better in some ways, and less so in others.

 

I believe A+ and Amarra, for instance, have a better grasp on the market value of their products. I find Roon's pricing to be disrespectful towards their customers and preying on the economic disease the audiophile can easily turn into. That's not putting anyone down, its more of an observation about the nature of the beast.

 

I don't think respect or lack of has anything to do with it. The people at Roon are very active at their forum interacting with customers and potential customers, and I see lots of respect there.

 

I think you are missing something basic: the people at Roon have been in the business a long time (previously Meridian/Soloos) and I think know the market quite well. The other products that you think are equivalent aren't - they dpn't provide the features that make Roon special, and they don't depend on more that one outside product that provides databases/streaming and charges a fee.

 

At Roon they've indicated that they've understood from the beginning that the paying market for their product is small, and that the product is therefore priced as a niche product.

 

It's very easy to sit at home and say that the product should be priced at a fraction of what the present price is, but what is obvious to you may actually mean that they can't sell Roon for that price and stay in business, which for them includes paying ongoing royalties and ongoing development of the product.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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A very valid point firedog ... but then why do you have to do the same to users of iTunes...

 

 

That second quote paragraph kind of defeats your moral high ground established in the first!

 

To the OP's point over the general cost ... they say the cost is down to the fee per user they are charged by Rovi for the data ... how much thats true I don't know.

 

Nope. I put down iTunes, not any user of it.

 

I didn't say "users of iTunes like mediocre or crummy products just b/c they are free." I stated my personal evaluation of iTunes as a product, which is totally different than judging it's users. It's obvious to me that millions of people like it, it's free, and they are happy with it. The fact that I personally think it sucks doesn't mean I'm judging any one who finds it fits what they need.

 

As to your other point, I don't think the direct access to the Tidal database is free, either, and certainly there is cost involved in constantly updating and integrating the Tidal database into Roon.

I haven't seen other programs where the integration is as seamless.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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There are probably many ways this could work, if Roon wants this. It all depends on their business model and anticipated number of subscribers.

 

They might argue that it isn't fair to people to spend $500 upfront to buy a lifetime subscription.

 

However, they might consider allowing a subscriber to use a portion of their yearly membership fee each year toward a lifetime membership. They would have to calculate what makes sense, but something like 50% first year, 60% second year, etc., until all of the yearly membership counts after X number of years.

 

I too would be very interested in a group buy, but it has to make sense for Roon.

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CA IS the target market for Roon. If not here, where else? And with the amount of buzz around this software there is on here, it's pretty clear that the market is sold on the features but not on the price.

 

You can't have an omelette unless you break some eggs, as they say.

 

There are other ways of achieving similar results to what roon provides regarding metadata but they all require more work. Kodi provides a partial facsimile with it's scraper engine and foobarcon pro will allow you to directly pull the wikipedia article of the artist you're listening to, directly on your phone. For some, that is enough, for others it isn't.

 

As a music discovery engine I didn't find it all that compelling but I have established habits for finding new music which include posting on enthusiast forums for the types of genres I listen to and that approach worked far better for me at finding new music than an algorithm.

If I am anything, I am a music lover and a pragmatist.

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