USB Cable

[witchdoctor]

If you count cables as component in your system, yes it matters and some cables can be very expensive and will you use them? The price of cable should be 1/10 of the final system value. More than that just make no sense.

 

The digital files are processed by pro audio device without expensive cables. Have you seen them use any consumer audiophile cables? No. My point is just remind people don't go too far on digital cables. A 4000USD system with random printer cables sounds better than 1000USD system with 6000USD cables. This example can help me to explain my point of view, cables are used to change hue and tones of current system. He is buying and trying USBs, that could be waste of money.

 

 

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Your point of view about cables is universal. All components change hue and tone in a system, why limit it to cables?

Any component could be a waste of money. Maybe a tube amp sounds great with speaker X and terrible with speaker Y.

If you want to argue about the pro market then everyone should use pro gear yet hardly anyone does in a consumer system, why is that?

As for a $4000 system sounding better than a $6000 system there are many factors to consider besides cables.

[witchdoctor]

Your point of view about cables is universal. All components change hue and tone in a system, why limit it to cables?

Any component could be a waste of money. Maybe a tube amp sounds great with speaker X and terrible with speaker Y.

If you want to argue about the pro market than everyone should use pro gear yet hardly anyone does in a consumer system, why is that?

As for a $4000 system sounding better than a $6000 system there are many factors to consider besides cables.

 

As for what someone should budget there are no absolutes, it is all relative and depends on many factors for every component, not just cables. If my speakers cost $400 how much should my amp cost? Who can say?

[amir57bs]

I hate to say it but dynamic compression can be related to so many things other than the choice of cable. Here are two ideas.

audioquest has a new $50 product called the jitterbug that piggybacks between your USB port and the USB cable, reviews are good.

Mapleshade offers an excellent USB cable that is worthy of an audition IMO and it is less $$ than some of the cables you mention:

Clearlink USB 2.0 Cable - 3 Foot - Male A to Male B - PLUS Version-shop.mapleshadestore.com

 

I am minimalist , if no cable make it right then i try those ideas. Again i say iUSB is king of thorsten reclocker and it sounds crap.if I you know thorsten you know he is very smart designer

[amir57bs]

If you count cables as component in your system, yes it matters and some cables can be very expensive and will you use them? The price of cable should be 1/10 of the final system value. More than that just make no sense.

 

The digital files are processed by pro audio device without expensive cables. Have you seen them use any consumer audiophile cables? No. My point is just remind people don't go too far on digital cables. A 4000USD system with random printer cables sounds better than 1000USD system with 6000USD cables. This example can help me to explain my point of view, cables are used to change hue and tones of current system. He is buying and trying USBs, that could be waste of money.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

cables are so so important.

be sure

[amir57bs]

Curious usb cable and AQ diamond usb cable both are comming to tehran, i also try CAD usb cable.

I will report them after 250hours break-in

[sandyk]

If you count cables as component in your system, yes it matters and some cables can be very expensive and will you use them? The price of cable should be 1/10 of the final system value. More than that just make no sense.

 

The digital files are processed by pro audio device without expensive cables. Have you seen them use any consumer audiophile cables? No. My point is just remind people don't go too far on digital cables. A 4000USD system with random printer cables sounds better than 1000USD system with 6000USD cables. This example can help me to explain my point of view, cables are used to change hue and tones of current system. He is buying and trying USBs, that could be waste of money.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Where did you dig up that silly bit about cables being 10% of the total system value ? A well designed system doesn't need expensive cables.

It's not possible to do more than improve USB Audio a little by using very expensive cables with it.

Many people do use more expensive cables to output to USB DACs, but that's due to flaws in the delivery of USB Audio from a typical Computer or Server, where you need to put a lot more effort into it to get it working well, and includes the use of devices such as the Intona Isolator and USB Regen to improve the Signal Integrity of the ANALOGUE representation of a digital waveform.

Well designed interconnects do NOT have a sound of their own !!! The better designed interconnects do however prevent RF/EMI from degrading the signal in conjunction with other methods such as keeping them well clear of A.C. mains cables.

[amir57bs]

Where did you dig up that silly bit about cables being 10% of the total system value ? A well designed system doesn't need expensive cables.

It's not possible to do more than improve USB Audio a little by using very expensive cables with it.

Many people do use more expensive cables to output to USB DACs, but that's due to flaws in the delivery of USB Audio from a typical Computer or Server, where you need to put a lot more effort into it to get it working well, and includes the use of devices such as the Intona Isolator and USB Regen to improve the Signal Integrity of the ANALOGUE representation of a digital waveform.

Well designed interconnects do NOT have a sound of their own !!! The better designed interconnects do however prevent RF/EMI from degrading the signal in conjunction with other methods such as keeping them well clear of A.C. mains cables.

 

Disagree

99% of cable maker in high end audio focus on analog cables like interconnect and speaker cable. between them maybe 5% (like purist) could design good cables but it seems non of them could make good digital cable. Even purist audio Jim Aud make good analog cables but could not make good digital cables.

Digital cables are different, their impedance should be constant and their termination should be accurate.

The best way to transfer signal is coaxial cable but in hifi all use twisted pair for usb and AES/EBU.

Making constant impedance of Twisted pair cables is hard and i do not know any designer to put much of his time on it.

[Astralark]

Did you consider the cables inside of your DAC, amplifier etc.? They exposed to EMI much because they are close to DSP. So are you going to replace all these cables?

 

 

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[amir57bs]

Did you consider the cables inside of your DAC, amplifier etc.? They exposed to EMI much because they are close to DSP. So are you going to replace all these cables?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

I speak upon my experience and i think cable is so important. AMR DAC and Berkeley Alpha both come from professional designers , i do not know about inside of those DAC but i know they knows the ropes.

[sandyk]

Disagree

99% of cable maker in high end audio focus on analog cables like interconnect and speaker cable. between them maybe 5% (like purist) could design good cables but it seems non of them could make good digital cable. Even purist audio Jim Aud make good analog cables but could not make good digital cables.

Digital cables are different, their impedance should be constant and their termination should be accurate.

The best way to transfer signal is coaxial cable but in hifi all use twisted pair for usb and AES/EBU.

Making constant impedance of Twisted pair cables is hard and i do not know any designer to put much of his time on it.

 

They concentrate on analogue interconnects and loudspeaker cables because that's where they can make big $ !!!

We have several members here that are very experienced in the area of cable design and impedance matching etc. who will tell you that much of the mystique with boutique interconnects is snake oil, and that you only need well designed cables.

With typical interconnect lengths of around 1M or so there is very little to be gained using expensive interconnects over well made cables from Blue Jeans Cables etc. who uses quality Belden Coaxial cable.

The vast majority of USB cables are sourced from a few Asian suppliers.

A few boutique USB cables loved by many C.A. members wouldn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of meeting the relevant USB 2.0 specifications for impedance etc.

I use DIY interconnects of a Coaxial cable type construction with 2 layers of shielding, including a braided shield for all my interconnects. For Coax SPDIF we are often limited to the use of RCA type connectors by the manufacturer, and it may be hard to retrofit a true 75 ohm BNC socket.

I was however able to retrofit a 75 ohm BNC socket for Coax SPDIF In with my highly modified DIY DAC based on a Silicon Chip magazine design and kit.

[One and a half]

@amir57bs What you will not notice on many audiophile cable pages are the 90 Ohm spec for USB Audio Class 2.0. This is a very basic requirement and with different geometry of cables and materials may not meet the technical spec, but certainly the marketing spec. This could well be substantiate your view that not all cables makers make good digital cable. I have tried various AES3 cables and none stand out and use Canare.

 

Supra is one, SAEC another that publish spec to comply to 90 Ohm. Both are reasonably priced. I have several SAEC USB and AES3id of various lengths and found them to be very neutral. The 'best' sounding I have tried goes to the Nordost Blue Heaven which won against the Curious cable in my system. I found the Nordost's connectors are built closer to USB spec and fit a lot tighter in the socket than the Curious, actually took a micrometer to the B connectors and was significant. The Lindy cable is like a USB printer cable, <$5.

 

Curious 0.8m W = 7.94 H = 7.12

Lindy 0,5m W = 7.97 H = 7.18

Nordost 1m Blue Heaven W=7.98, H = 7.2

 

Much can be said about cables for sure, don't be surprised if heated arguments that end nowhere surface in this thread.

[amir57bs]

Thorsten (designer of AMR and iFi) and lukasz fikus (lampizator) both use a nos valve to reclock digital data. This valve receive square wave then amplify/convert it to better square shape with lower output impedance. It seems this help

[sandyk]

Did you consider the cables inside of your DAC, amplifier etc.? They exposed to EMI much because they are close to DSP. So are you going to replace all these cables?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

I use a separate DAC, preamp and power amplifier. The only interconnects in my DIY DAC are <50mm long and connect to the RCA output sockets.

[amir57bs]

They concentrate on analogue interconnects and loudspeaker cables because that's where they can make big $ !!!

We have several members here that are very experienced in the area of cable design and impedance matching etc. who will tell you that much of the mystique with boutique interconnects is snake oil, and that you only need well designed cables.

With typical interconnect lengths of around 1M or so there is very little to be gained using expensive interconnects over well made cables from Blue Jeans Cables etc. who uses quality Belden Coaxial cable.

The vast majority of USB cables are sourced from a few Asian suppliers.

A few boutique USB cables loved by many C.A. members would have a snowflake's chance in hell of meeting the relevant USB 2.0 specifications for impedance etc.

I use DIY interconnects of a Coaxial cable type construction with 2 layers of shielding, including a braided shield for all my interconnects. For Coax SPDIF we are often limited to the use of RCA type connectors by the manufacturer, and it may be hard to retrofit a true 75 ohm BNC socket.

I was however able to retrofit a 75 ohm BNC socket for Coax SPDIF In with my highly modified DIY DAC based on a Silicon Chip magazine design and kit.

Sure , I cab believe that 5$ belden or belkin Could outperform 5000$ digital cables from high end cables in this market

[sandyk]

Thorsten (designer of AMR and iFi) and lukasz fikus (lampizator) both use a nos valve to reclock digital data. This valve receive square wave then amplify/convert it to better square shape with lower output impedance. It seems this help

 

In one of his designs our own highly experienced E.E. John Swenson uses a wide bandwidth I.C . with VHF amplification capabilities. Sorry, but I don't accept the claimed superiority of valves when used in this application.

It's mainly a marketing decision.

[amir57bs]

@amir57bs What you will not notice on many audiophile cable pages are the 90 Ohm spec for USB Audio Class 2.0. This is a very basic requirement and with different geometry of cables and materials may not meet the technical spec, but certainly the marketing spec. This could well be substantiate your view that not all cables makers make good digital cable. I have tried various AES3 cables and none stand out and use Canare.

 

Supra is one, SAEC another that publish spec to comply to 90 Ohm. Both are reasonably priced. I have several SAEC USB and AES3id of various lengths and found them to be very neutral. The 'best' sounding I have tried goes to the Nordost Blue Heaven which won against the Curious cable in my system. I found the Nordost's connectors are built closer to USB spec and fit a lot tighter in the socket than the Curious, actually took a micrometer to the B connectors and was significant. The Lindy cable is like a USB printer cable, <$5.

 

Curious 0.8m W = 7.94 H = 7.12

Lindy 0,5m W = 7.97 H = 7.18

Nordost 1m Blue Heaven W=7.98, H = 7.2

 

Much can be said about cables for sure, don't be surprised if heated arguments that end nowhere surface in this thread.

 

In RF transmission line design we are limited to some methods. One of them is coaxial and another is twisted pair.

Generally In usb and AES cables we use twisted pair , usb is 90 ohm and aes is 110 ohm . Coax is 75 ohm .

Coax has different standards and some coax are 50 ohm.

I absolutley do not know whats right/whats wrong with RF transmission for good sound but i know most high end company even do not fix their impedance accross the line. They use 50 ohm RCA connector on 75 ohm cable.

[17629v2]

Did you consider the cables inside of your DAC, amplifier etc.? They exposed to EMI much because they are close to DSP. So are you going to replace all these cables?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

A good designer takes care of that. Look inside products from companies like Ayre, BAT, Rowland, Levinson and many other similar quality brands and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[17629v2]

The digital files are processed by pro audio device without expensive cables. Have you seen them use any consumer audiophile cables? No. My point is just remind people don't go too far on digital cables. A 4000USD system with random printer cables sounds better than 1000USD system with 6000USD cables. This example can help me to explain my point of view, cables are used to change hue and tones of current system. He is buying and trying USBs, that could be waste of money.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

I understand why you would make that statement, but its not correct. Home playback is a different application than studio gear. It doesn't matter what cables were used in the studio. Ideally, the home system should be as transparent as possible. It needs accurately reproduce what is on the recording. To do that, you don't need to use the same cables that were used in the studio. Your playback system needs to reproduce the sound of what was recorded. The cables in the studio are part of that sound. That's transparency.

[Astralark]

I understand why you would make that statement, but its not correct. Home playback is a different application than studio gear. It doesn't matter what cables were used in the studio. Ideally, the home system should be as transparent as possible. It needs accurately reproduce what is on the recording. To do that, you don't need to use the same cables that were used in the studio. Your playback system needs to reproduce the sound of what was recorded. The cables in the studio are part of that sound. That's transparency.

 

Well. I don't mean cables are not important. I can hear difference of cables. I want to say don't pay too much on cables and good cables can't save bad system.

 

 

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[sandyk]

Well. I don't mean cables are not important. I can hear difference of cables. I want to say don't pay too much on cables and good cables can't save bad system.

 

 

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The cables in home audio syetem are used to alter hue / tones.

 

Are you backing away from that statement now ?

The vast majority of members want their interconnects to be audibly transparent !

[elcorso]

In one of his designs our own highly experienced E.E. John Swenson uses a wide bandwidth I.C . with VHF amplification capabilities. Sorry, but I don't accept the claimed superiority of valves when used in this application.

It's mainly a marketing decision.

 

Dear Alex,

 

I'm sorry but I don't believe in such a thing like a "marketing decision". In my humble opinion is a listening decision.

 

I consider [some] tubed DACs remove harsh from digital. Anyway we are out of thread!

 

Kind regards,

 

Roch

[sandyk]

Dear Alex,

 

I'm sorry but I don't believe in such a thing like a "marketing decision". In my humble opinion is a listening decision.

 

I consider [some] tubed DACs remove harsh from digital. Anyway we are out of thread!

 

Kind regards,

 

Roch

 

Roch

What I said here has NOTHING to do with valves used in the analogue output stages of a DAC.

I am NOT putting down valves used in the analogue output stages of a DAC. Their use there is a personal choice only,just as it is with Hollow State Amplifiers vs. Solid State Amplifiers . Either type when properly designed can do the job equally well.

A suitable high speed I.C. can perform a conversion of a square wave type output to an exported Coax SPDIF stream just as effectively as any valve can do, and never need replacing for the lifetime of the DAC either.

The Coax SPDIF output stage that John Swenson designed using a wideband video amplifier, as distinct from the use of a Logic I.C. , would do every bit as well as a valve used in this particular DIGITAL application.

 

Alex

[amir57bs]

In one of his designs our own highly experienced E.E. John Swenson uses a wide bandwidth I.C . with VHF amplification capabilities. Sorry, but I don't accept the claimed superiority of valves when used in this application.

It's mainly a marketing decision.

 

output impedance of IC/Valve (digital square wave generator) accross the frequency is important. It should be constant and match to line impedance.

Thorsten is a smart designer and his DP-777 (5000$) easily outperform 50000$ DACs , hi is not on marketing hype.

[sandyk]

Thorsten is a smart designer and his DP-777 (5000$) easily outperform 50000$ DACs ,hi is not on marketing hype

 

It would appear that you may be though ! (smile)

Have you heard any $50K DACs ?

 

BTW, quad I.C's such as the MAX497 series with their full power -3dB bandwidth of 215MHZ, a fixed gain of 2, with 75 ohm input resistors and a 75 ohm series output resistor should be ideal for this kind of duty. They need + and -5V supply rails though.

The output level could be set by the value of a series input resistor.

 

http://imageshack.com/a/img922/5576/njLCeA.jpg

[Astralark]

Are you backing away from that statement now ?

The vast majority of members want their interconnects to be audibly transparent !

 

Yeah, but how to, are any cable companies advertising their cable transparent, dynamic, or clean? They just claim this is our flagship, it sound good. Well there are 100+ companies and 1000+ cables. How to identify them?

 

 

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