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Better ADSL2 Network Isolation for MicroRendu?


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Hi guys,

 

I am hoping to pick the brains of members who are more network savvy than I am. Before setting up the i5 transporter and MR, I have never networked anything before.

 

My goal is to provide some form of audio signal isolation fed to the Microrendu via Ethernet. My current pathway is as follows:

 

10 year old Netgear ADSL2 Modem Router(Wifi) > Netgear wifi Signal Amplifier > (Ethernet) TP_LINK Ethernet Switch/Board > (Ethernet) I5 Transporter

Ø (Ethernet) Microrendu

 

At the moment I am pretty happy with the results but I feel there may be a few weak links in my pathway so I would appreciate your comments. I also don’t like the fact that my entire family is using the same wifi modem router whilst I am using the MR for music as I am certain additional ‘network’ traffic will come through as some sort of noise.

 

Should I purchase an additional router separate from the one used by the rest of the family for better isolation? Is the Netgear wifi Signal Amplifier a weak link in that its wife signal dependant ?

 

I have ordered some AQ Vodkas to connect into MR and some cheaper Supra Cat 8’s to connect from the I5 Transporter to the ) TP_LINK Ethernet Switch.

 

Appreciate any comments you may have.

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Hey Lyndon, nice to see you here!

 

It looks as if your I5 transporter is directly connected to your Microrendu via an ethernet cable? I don't see what the problem is. If you want to provide galvanic isolation between the two, you could use an FMC with fibre optic cable.

 

If you have no choice but to use wireless, I would suggest you upgrade your modem/router to one capable of supporting dual bands (2.4GHz and 5GHz). Put your family on the 2.4GHz band and use the 5GHz band for music. Bear in mind that the 5GHz band tends to be limited in range, so whether this works for you depends on how your home is configured.

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Hi Keith,

 

Thanks for your response as it does clarify things a little. I just read a few more threads surrounding this issue. The penny finally dropped when I realise that there are 2 MC200CS converters used in the chain.

 

So I purchased 2 tp link mc200cs converters and configured them like that:

 

ADSL2 Modem >(Ethernet) MC200 >(SC-SC Multimode) MC200 > (Ethernet) Laptop

 

I get no internet signal from the above linkage so I am scratching my head trying to figure out where I went wrong.

 

My ADSL2 modem is not a cable modem but picks up ADSL2 from the phone line, would that matter ?

 

Do I need a specific type of Ethernet cable or will Cat5 and 6 suffice ?

 

None of the linkage lights are lit up on the MC200CS. I can tell from the ADSL model that no signal is flowing as the Ethernet port light is not lit up. When I hook my laptop directly to the ADSL model via the same ethernet connection and cable, the Ethernet port signal lights up and I get internet connection on the laptop.

 

For some reason the MC200CS is not achieving a handshake with my ADSL2 WIFI router through the Ethernet connection.

 

I would appreciate it if anyone can chime in with some insight. Are most people using cable modems ?

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Cool man. Call me late in the morning please.

 

I called up the help desk and they say that the lack of handshake is probably because my model ethernet port is not 1000 base port or something like that so I will try it on another model which I will purchase. Never as easy as it seems.

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Okay problem solved. The handshake between the MC200CS and my 10 year old Netgear Modem did not happen because the Ethernet port on my old modem was off an older model.

 

I used a TP LINK ethernet switch to connect to my ADSL Modem then connected the MC200CS to the TP LINK Ethernet switch which has the 1000 base port standard. Success !!!

 

Let's connect/ meet up tomorrow anyway. Bloody MicroRendu dragged me back into the land of expensive audiophilia but at least computer networking gear is dirttttt cheap in comparison.

 

Can you call me or text me your mobile number as I lost your number.

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Cat6 or Cat7? Which is better?

 

I think the best advice is to use Cat6a. Although Cat7 has greater shielding and throughput, the problem is that the shielding grounds to both connectors, thereby potentially allowing noise to travel from the computer through the shield. In Cat 6 the shielding is not attached. Cat 6a allows for greater bandwidth than Cat 6 (which may not be needed for music). It is also quite important to know that your cable actually meets the specifications. For this reason, I prefer to purchase my from vendors like BlueJeans Cables that provide certification along with the cables they send.

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>SMSL M500 DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

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I think the best advice is to use Cat6a. Although Cat7 has greater shielding and throughput, the problem is that the shielding grounds to both connectors, thereby potentially allowing noise to travel from the computer through the shield. In Cat 6 the shielding is not attached. Cat 6a allows for greater bandwidth than Cat 6 (which may not be needed for music). It is also quite important to know that your cable actually meets the specifications. For this reason, I prefer to purchase my from vendors like BlueJeans Cables that provide certification along with the cables they send.

 

Nice summary - very helpful for those of us having homes built (and cabled :) ) in the near future.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Nice summary - very helpful for those of us having homes built (and cabled :) ) in the near future.

 

Jud: Just for you, I should have added: When we built our house 8 years ago, the best available cabling was Cat 5e and so I went with that. But I also put in fiber that I then left unattached in the boxes. Three years into it, I wondered, why did I go to the extra expense of laying all that fiber? Today, I'm very happy I did as it is a lot easier to connect the fiber than to rerun new Cat 6a in the walls. ;-))

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>SMSL M500 DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

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Just out of curiosity, i got 6 AA batteries together then plugged it into my tp link ethernet switcher closest to the streamer. Wow....i could not believe the difference harshness and sibilance virtually dissapeared. I imagine that is what an lps would give you but who needs one when you can use 6 cheap double A sized batteries slapped together to give you 9v.

 

Guys give me some ideas to make this solution more sustainable. Rechargeable batteries ?

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There have been a few microRendu users that have had problems when the audio data going from the server to the microRendu go through the router or a managed switch. What seems to work in all cases is to have a separate simole switch connected to the router with both the server and microRendu connected to that switch. A simple little 5 port switch works great here (about $25) It is best if both the server and microRendu connect with cables to the switch. If this puts the switch a long ways away from the router and you have to use WiFi then you can use a wireless bridge (NOT a router) with multiple Ethernet jacks, use the WiFi to talk to the internet and the server and microRendu talk via cables.

 

John S.

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There have been a few microRendu users that have had problems when the audio data going from the server to the microRendu go through the router or a managed switch. What seems to work in all cases is to have a separate simole switch connected to the router with both the server and microRendu connected to that switch. A simple little 5 port switch works great here (about $25) It is best if both the server and microRendu connect with cables to the switch. If this puts the switch a long ways away from the router and you have to use WiFi then you can use a wireless bridge (NOT a router) with multiple Ethernet jacks, use the WiFi to talk to the internet and the server and microRendu talk via cables.

 

John S.

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  • 5 months later...
On 10/13/2016 at 2:33 PM, JohnSwenson said:

There have been a few microRendu users that have had problems when the audio data going from the server to the microRendu go through the router or a managed switch. What seems to work in all cases is to have a separate simole switch connected to the router with both the server and microRendu connected to that switch. A simple little 5 port switch works great here (about $25) It is best if both the server and microRendu connect with cables to the switch. If this puts the switch a long ways away from the router and you have to use WiFi then you can use a wireless bridge (NOT a router) with multiple Ethernet jacks, use the WiFi to talk to the internet and the server and microRendu talk via cables.

 

John S.

Interesting.  I just got a microrendu and am experiencing some harshness.  What is the benefit of connecting via a switch instead of a router?

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On 4/1/2017 at 6:31 PM, atxkyle said:

Interesting.  I just got a microrendu and am experiencing some harshness.  What is the benefit of connecting via a switch instead of a router?

I tried this tonight.  Connected my Roon PC and microrendu to an unmanaged switch (which I powered with a 5V iFi iPower that I had on hand instead of the wall wart included with the switch).  This improved the SQ - my Netgear Orbi Router is pretty high-powered (draws 3.5A - lots going on with it) ... would be reasonable to think it is a lot noisier than an iFi-powered little unmanaged switch.  

 

As an aside I also tested subbing in a cat7 ethernet cable from switch > mr instead of cat6.  That led to an immediate averse impact to SQ and I switched back to the cat6 after sampling just a few songs.  Supposedly the shielded connectors on cat7 defeat the mr's galvanic isolation - i can certainly say from my quick test cat7 to the mr is NOT a good idea.

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Hi,

searching for a good/very good ethernet cable is useless to me, and can be very expensive (if you take an "audiophile" one).

I use this ethernet isolator, to place before your renderer, with basic UTP ethernet cable on downstream side : https://www.reichelt.de/Netzwerk-Zubehoer/MED-MI1005/3/index.html?ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=125116&GROUPID=5861&artnr=MED+MI1005&SEARCH=mi1005

Much more efficient than a top-notch RJ45 cable. 100eur, no more. Then, you do not change anything, cause job is done.

Rgds

Hifi & optical LAN setup => here

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