iFi's Pro iDSD (official) - NEW Firmware - MQA and more.

[o.fz]

Hello,

I'm new here. English is not my first langage and I apologize in advance, for all my mistakes.

I consider the Pro iDSD, as my first streamer/dac. Currently, I'm still using my old faithful YBA CD1, 25 years old and delivering. ?

I like the simplicity of the CD player thing, and I would rather not make my life even more complicated with yet another computer gear, namely a NAS.

I have 2To of my own CD collection ripped, in bit perfect, on an external hard drive. Can someone tell me if the HDD can be directly plug into the iDSD, and just work that way, and if it's a good solution, as far as sound quality is concerned?

Thank you.

[o.fz]

OK, this "official" tread seems to be dead. ? I try again anyway.

I read that the DAC can play files from a HDD which is formatted in Fat32.

My CDs are ripped on a 4 to HDD, so it must be formatted in exFat or NFTS. Fat32 is not possible.

Is there any solution to this problem? Could a new firmware solve it?

 

[o.fz]

Hello, Mr Ifi. Thank you for your reply.

I must say that I have a Pro Idsd at home, for 3 days. There is only 2 days left, and it didn't produce a single sound so far.

I thought I had found a good workaround by splitting the 4Tb HD in 2 2Tb partitions, formatted in Fat32. Computer wise, it worked fine, but the Muzo doesn't recognize the HD anyway. I'm lost. ?

[o.fz]

More precisely, when I'm on the page named 'ifi_hig-res_audio_decc', where should I go to find this damned HD? There is a page that lists streaming services, but I don't see it there either.

[o.fz]

The Ifi Pro Idsd - an early user experience

 

First of all, I must say that I'm irked and it may not be the best mood to write a post like this one, but on the other hand, it may be useful for a manufacturer to be aware of an user experience, when it's bad.

 

Here is the beginning of the story: I heard the Ifi in my favourite seller's showroom. I compared it extensively to the Auralic Vega G2, and I thought that the Ifi was worth a careful listening at home. To say it briefly: the Auralic is in another league: it can extract more information from the files than the Ifi, but I'm not sure that it can make more music, and as I'm not an audiophile, but a music lover, I thought I could prefer the Ifi.

 

So I brought it home for a test. Firstly, I bought a new 4Tb LaCie hard drive with an external power supply, since I read in the so called "user manual", that, strangely enough, an external power supply is mandatory. OK, not a big deal. - Except that the HD must be formatted in Fat32. Yes Sir! In Fat32. A format that is to formatting what a stegosaurus is to a common cow: a fossil. Of course, it can not be used to format a 4Tb HD; 2Tb is the limit. Great. With a bit of irk, I decided to partition the HD in 2 x 2Tb an formatted both partitions using the anticated fossil Fat32 format. Then I transferd my large ripped CD collection on the new HD, and went to bed.

 

On the morning of day 2, the HD was ready. I pluged it into the convenient USB port and... nothing. First, I had to install the Muzo app on my Samsung tab and to configure it, without the slightest explanation from the so-called "user manual". After a while, I found the way to do it and... still nothing. No hard drive in sight. Not even one partition of it. Nothing. I read again the f# manual, dear Sir. I read, for example, that "Each d/a converter operates in the 'voltage output mode', giving >119dB dynamic range. All filtering is passive. A fully-balanced 3rd order/inductor/capacitor filter is used to remove ultrasonic noise directly after the d/a conversion rarher than active, feedback-based circuits." I was mirthful! It filled me with joy! Or it would have, if I had a degree in electronics, but I don't. Actually, I just want to listen to music, and I would have prefered a clear explanarion of how to configure the DAC, rather than abstruse technical considerations.

 

I played for a while with the silent Ifi thing, trying many different configurations, supposing it would be useful later, if I would be able to actually use it. I had to search on the net to discover how to activate the DSD remastering, because the f# manual forget to mention it. (Don't rotate the selector, press it.)

 

Now, it's the end of day 2, and that pesky thing is still silent. And yes, I also tried a fat32 formatted memory stick into the USB plug, without any result. There is only one day left to test the DAC which refuses to recognize any USB source.

 

So my conclusion would be:

- please next time that you write a user manual, think about the user, and take the time to write an usable start guide,

- update the firmware and allow an exFat formatted HD to be used.

Thank you!

 

OK, irk mode is now off. I feel better.

 

Tomorrow morning, I'll contact your support team, hoping that they answer before I have to send the DAC back.

[o.fz]

14 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Thank you for your feedback. Every single one counts.

 

 

Yup, please do that. We hope our support staff will help with your music storage and Pro iDSD.

My pleasure. Seriously, I'm sorry I was so sarcastic. After one day and half of fight with a stubborn machine, I was rather irritated.

 

Your technical service didn't answer yet and I'm afraid I'll have to bring back the Pro Idsd to the shop without having the possibility to listen to it in my system.

[o.fz]

Finally, here is the conclusion, after two days and half in the Ifi territory.

 

1. The Sandisk Extreme, usb 3.0, 32 Gb, memory key was recognised. It's just that it appears down under the list of all the streaming services and you have to notice it, as it's unconspicuous and the user manual doesn't mention where you should look for it. - Then comes the Muzo app. ? More about it later.

 

2. The LaCie, usb C 3.0, 4Tb, Porsche design, desktop drive wasn't recognised. It has to be formatted in Fat32 (remember), so I had to partition it in 2 x 2Tb, as the Fat32 format can't manage a HD larger than 2Tb. I suspect that the Ifi couldn't cope with a partitioned HD, but I have no certainity about it and Ifi's technical service was of no help. By the way, I tried everything that was in the range of my knowledge and beyond; it never worked.

 

3. The Müzo app... Well... It has some subtle limitations (oh no, I'm being sarcastic again). The Müzo app doesn't present you with the albums, that you could sort by artist, title, genre, wathever you want, like any other civilised app. No: it does list ALL the tracks in a single "flat" list and that's all. If you have about 16,000 tracks like me, I wish you goog luck to find anything back in a raw list of 16,000 tracks. Moreover, it does truncate the track's name after about 30 or 50 caracters, I didn't count. Suppose that you have somewhere, in this endless list, the Brandenburg Concertos by Rinaldo Alessandrini. Every single track from both CDs will be named like "Alessandrini_Brandenburg_Concert", that's all. No mention of the concerto's number, the movement, ... anything. Just find your way in that mess. ?

 

My conclusion would be that if you have a large CD library ripped on a hard drive, even if it's under the limit of 2Tb, you shouldn't hope the Pro iDSD will allow you to browse it in any convenient way. I also doubt it will be able to manage a large library stored on a NAS, but it's to be confirmed. Regarding that aspect, there is a lot of work to be done by Ifi's IT department, before it's usable.

 

So the Pro iDSD goes back to the store. End of the story.

 

 

[o.fz]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Can't you use other (better) apps with the Pro iDSD?

 

I don't know. It's the only application mentioned by the user manual.

[o.fz]

On 12/21/2018 at 10:18 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

It's probably too late now since you returned your loaner, but once setup, the Muzo app you can use ANY DLNA app. It can be used for config only.

 

 

Actually,  no: it isn't too late; I bought it. I gave up the HD solution which seems to be a technical possibility, but not a really usable one, with large libraries and HD. So I bought a NAS and after several painful days, it works now and I can listen to my music through the little and brave thing.

 

I have now a question about gapless playback, i.e. the continuous playing of tracks without seconds of silence between them. It's necessary for many classical, jazz, elctronic... works. Nobody wants to get pauses inside a continous piece of music, of course. So far, Neutron is the only application that respects more or less (sometimes with clics and pops) gapless playback. Unfortunately,  I find Neutron quirky and unpleasing to use. I would vastly prefer Bubble upnp or Hi-Fi cast.

 

Here is the answer I got from Hi-Fi cast support about the subject:
 

Quote

 

It seems that the IFi iDSD doesn't support gapless directly via UPnP/DLNA (it returns an error whenever the Hi-Fi Cast app tries to queue up the next track).

Neutron works because it creates a single (gapless) stream that is sent to the player. So unfortunately there's nothing you can do to prevent the gaps when using the Hi-Fi Cast app.

 

 

My question is: is it really impossible to get continuous playback from the Pro iDSD, but with the less than ideal Proton application?

[o.fz]

23 hours ago, anroj said:

Hi all, I am considering the Pro iDSD as a replacement for my Micro iDSD and have concerns about having to reformat my HDD to FAT32 to be able to use it with the Pro. I have contacted Ifi but have not gotten a response yet. Can anyone confirm that that is indeed true. The thought of having to reformat my HDD and re-ripping and re-downloading 6TB worth of music is not appealing.

 

You may want to read my (too) long post above yours:

 

On 12/18/2018 at 10:18 AM, o.fz said:

Finally, here is the conclusion, after two days and half in the Ifi territory.

 

1. The Sandisk Extreme, usb 3.0, 32 Gb, memory key was recognised. It's just that it appears down under the list of all the streaming services and you have to notice it, as it's unconspicuous and the user manual doesn't mention where you should look for it. - Then comes the Muzo app. ? More about it later.

 

2. The LaCie, usb C 3.0, 4Tb, Porsche design, desktop drive wasn't recognised. It has to be formatted in Fat32 (remember), so I had to partition it in 2 x 2Tb, as the Fat32 format can't manage a HD larger than 2Tb. I suspect that the Ifi couldn't cope with a partitioned HD, but I have no certainity about it and Ifi's technical service was of no help. By the way, I tried everything that was in the range of my knowledge and beyond; it never worked.

 

3. The Müzo app... Well... It has some subtle limitations (oh no, I'm being sarcastic again). The Müzo app doesn't present you with the albums, that you could sort by artist, title, genre, wathever you want, like any other civilised app. No: it does list ALL the tracks in a single "flat" list and that's all. If you have about 16,000 tracks like me, I wish you goog luck to find anything back in a raw list of 16,000 tracks. Moreover, it does truncate the track's name after about 30 or 50 caracters, I didn't count. Suppose that you have somewhere, in this endless list, the Brandenburg Concertos by Rinaldo Alessandrini. Every single track from both CDs will be named like "Alessandrini_Brandenburg_Concert", that's all. No mention of the concerto's number, the movement, ... anything. Just find your way in that mess. ?

 

My conclusion would be that if you have a large CD library ripped on a hard drive, even if it's under the limit of 2Tb, you shouldn't hope the Pro iDSD will allow you to browse it in any convenient way. I also doubt it will be able to manage a large library stored on a NAS, but it's to be confirmed. Regarding that aspect, there is a lot of work to be done by Ifi's IT department, before it's usable.

 

[o.fz]

1 hour ago, Holzohr said:

Hi, I have the LMS (Squeezebox server) running on my NAS (Synology) with the UPnP/DLNA-bridge plugin and no problems with gapless playback. Bubble UPnP should work, too. Maybe you can install the MinimServer on your NAS.

 

Never heard about these Hi-Fi Cast or Neutron apps so far.

 

Thank you for your help Holzohr. Bubble doesn't work gapless with Synology's native multimedia server application - in my current settings, btw. I don't know if I tried it with MinimServer. I'll do it soon. However, I've read somewhere that gapless playback is streamer dependent, not server dependent.

[o.fz]

I confirm that Bubble doesn't play gapless, either with MinimServer, unfortunately.

[o.fz]

Thanks a lot. A working gapless playback would make me perfectly happy with the Pro iDSD. ?

[o.fz]

7 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

You should find the BubbleUPnP Server among the community apps on your Synology package center. Please install it additionally beside the MinimServer. It is an add-on for UPnP/DLNA-servers and supports Linn's OpenHome mode. Then install the BubbleDS Next app on your tablet or smartphone.

 

I was using the MinimServer with BubbleUPnP Server "on top" a couple of years ago and gapless playback has worked this way, definitely. 

 

 

 

Thanks again for your help.  I'll try this setting next Saturday.

[o.fz]

19 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

A small update: gapless playback via App/Ethernet/WiFi is currently impossible and has to be addressed on the firmware level. We're on it.  

 

Good to know! I'm using the Ethernet connection, indeed. It's very good as far as sound quality is concerned. Would you technical team work faster if I would send them a box of Belgian chocolate? ?

 

Meanwhile , the "Neutron" application can be a workaround, if a rather user-unfriendly one.

[o.fz]

I've discovered that

1. I've lots of CD that requires continuous playback,
2. The Neutron thing gives me a headache.

Please,  Mrs/Mr Ifi, could you tell us when gapless playback will be available on the (otherwise) fantastic Pro iDSD?

 

Thank you and happy 2019.

[o.fz]

22 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

At the moment we have no firm date but we do acknowledge the need.

 

Well... Not sure if I'm positively reassured by your answer...

[o.fz]

Sorry for all my (stupid) questions: I'm a complete newbie in these matters.

 

Is it possible that the sound changes with the player? I'v the distinct impression that Neutron sounds better than Bubble upnp... By better, I mean sharper, with more space between the instruments. How could this be possible? Am I crazy?

[o.fz]

On 1/4/2019 at 2:33 AM, André Gosselin said:

I do not own a ProIDSD, but I was quite excited when I initially read about it. However, I felt really depressed when I heard that gapless playback was not factored in when the product was initially designed and that firmware would need to be changed to support it (if this is possible, as you wrote in a later post). It sounds as if gapless playback support for the ProIDSD is an aftertought. I find it hard to understand how such an essential requirement in a network renderer can have been ignored in a product that took years to develop. I just hope that gapless playback will effectively become a reality in the ProIDSD, and that its implementation will not be of a "proprietary" type requiring the use of a specific controller, but rather be based on the same UPnP protocols as used for ex. by BubbleUPnP on Android.

 

I agree with you that gapless playback is a basic requirement on a high end DAC and that it should be implemented as a general feature. However, the Neutron app plays gapelessly and works well with the Pro iDSD. To my ears and in my system, it's the best sounding app I've used so far. So this current limitation should not be regarded as a deal breaker, notwithstanding Neutron's irritating quirks and oddities. I also suppose that we can trust Ifi when they say that they're working on the issue.

 

Back to music now.

[o.fz]

Hi Mario,

This is interesting. I've also noticed that the iPi is rather on the noisy side. At idle it produces a level of noise I never heard with my old CD player. So I also tried the HDPlex thing. It's less noisy, but it changes a lot the iPi's sound. As I bought it for its fantastic sound quality, I didn't kept the HDPlex for more than 2 or 3 hours in use and went back to the original power supply, that I definitively prefer.

If the noise is a problem for you, you may try a symmetric (XLR) connection with your preamp. It will be less noisy.

Having the HDPlex at hand, I made a curious experiment: I put it on my router and my NAS. The result has been incredible: I got a much quieter sound, with more air between the instruments and a better soundstage (a cliché, I know, I can't help, it was so). Clearly, their cheap power supplies produced a lot of noise, that was probably fed into the DAC through the Ethernet connection. So, the HDPlex stays here, for an unexpected use.

You may also like the Wireworld Platinium Ethernet cable,  which works very well with the iPi. Its rather pricey, but it has no rival among the other cables I tried.

Olivier

 

[o.fz]

11 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Can you please shoot us a message here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/

 

Does it mean that the DAC shouldn't be noisy? Mine is, definitively.

[o.fz]

10 hours ago, pl1jns said:

My noise is definitely not the power supply as I tried a different one and the noise was still there. I wouldnt assume its the power supply unless you have checked it with another one

 

You're right. When I tried the HDPlex, noise wasn't my first concern, so I can't swear it reduced the noise level. I mostly noticed that the sound changed, and that I preferred the supplied supply (sorry).

[o.fz]

13 hours ago, pl1jns said:

Mine is noisy too. If I turn the amp volume up with no music playing i get a lot of hash clicks and pops. This doesnt happen with a CD player connected. I have also tried it with a different power supply and it isnt that.

I already have a support ticket going had replies but no solution yet

 

I've about the same experience: an audible hiss (mostly in the medium frequencies) and a cyclical 'cloc'. Kind of: cloc... cloc... cloc... I'll try to record it tomorrow,  if ever I can find back my Lavalier microphone...

That said, it's not audible when the music is playing. I only ear it when it should be silent.

I might contact the 'support' team, but my experience about it is rather disappointing: they create a ticket and nothing more happens, as far as I can tell.

I hope you'll be more successful.

[o.fz]

In a certain way, this streamer reminds me of the Fuji X100 camera. Picture-wise, it changed the expectations you would have about an aps-c camera: it dominated all the others, but the user experience was marred by lots of quirks and flaws that resulted of a premature release. Fuji released afterwards several firmwares that gradually improved the camera, while the (rare) hardware ergonomic flaws stayed, of course. Nonetheless, I still own and use that camera, 6 years after its release (an eternity in digital cameras terms).

Similarly, the iDSD's sound is undreamt of, for a streamer in that category, but it has several irritating shortcomings. The lack of gapless playback isn't the less annoying flaw, as far as I'm concerned.

I only hope that Ifi will follow Fuji's example and fix all the firmware issues in a near future.

[o.fz]

Here is a recording of the strange noise from outer space. I used a cheap Lavalier microphone, connected to my phone. It's placed close (about 5 cm) to the bass speaker.

One can ear alternatively the base noise of the system, with mute or another input chosen from the preamp, and the specific noise of the iDSD. The level difference shows that the noise is audible, but is not a huge problem, imho.

It's mostly puzzling because my former source, a YBA CD player, was completely silent.

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