iFi's Pro iDSD (official) - NEW Firmware - MQA and more.

[austinpop]

On 1/7/2018 at 10:58 AM, AMR/iFi audio said:

BNC multifunction In (SPDIF/AES3id In, DARS In, 10MHz In, Atomic clock in)

 

A very intriguing product! Thanks for the teaser info shared to date.

 

Can you provide any details of the internal clocks? XO, TCXO, OCXO? Same quality for system (USB, ethernet, motherboard) and data? 

 

I see you support a 10MHz reference clock input. Does that mean you use a frequency synthesizer, with an internal reference clock, that can be overridden by the external reference clock? I find this very exciting, and hope you can share more details.

 

Finally, what is the word on release date?

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, rickca said:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29373-ifi-audio-pro-idsd-official-thread-its-happening-folks/

 

 

Doh! Sorry - should have checked.

[austinpop]

Any pix of the back panel forthcoming?

[austinpop]

39 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Yes.

 

OK - my fault for asking a vague question.  Let me try again.

 

When will you be posting a picture of the back panel here?

[austinpop]

On 2/7/2018 at 3:55 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

...the Pro iDSD will feature at the Lisbon Audio Show, Portugal (16-18 March). However, we are pleased to announce that visitors to CanJam New York, USA (17-18 Feb) and Bristol Sound and Vision, UK (23-25 Feb) will still be able to see and demo the Pro iDSD on the iFi stand. 

 

Will you be showing the Pro iDSD at Axpona?

 

Thanks.

[austinpop]

@AMR/iFi audio

 

Could you clarify a couple of things regarding the 10MHz reference clock input?

1. Will it accept both square and sine wave clocks?
2. What internal clock(s) does the reference clock discipline?

Thanks.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Any clock, sine or square with at least 0.5V PP will work.

 

 

Excellent, thanks for your answer. That means acclaimed clocks like the Mutec Ref 10, the SOtM sCLK-OCX10, and the Cybershaft should all work fine.

 

Could you address the second part of my question? Which internal clocks will the reference clock discipline? In other words, will an ultra-low-phase noise reference clock on the input improve the sample rate clocks, the clock used for the USB input, or both?

[austinpop]

On 4/24/2018 at 3:33 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Any clock, sine or square with at least 0.5V PP will work.

 

 

Could you also elaborate what impedance the BNC input expects - 50 ohm or 75 ohm?

 

Also, I found this view of the back panel on Music Direct's website:

I am actually very encouraged that it supports an external PSU. The label says 15V/4A. A high-quality, beefy 6A or 10A LPS will likely do wonders for this unit.

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

As a minimum, to improve on the internal 10MHz clock oscillator, a clock should be verified to offer the level of performance (especially phase noise) of the Sanford Research Systems PERF-10. 

• http://www.thinksrs.com/products/PERF10.htm

Clocks with lower performance will likely degrade performance.

 

The days when rubidium clocks were considered the optimal for audio are long gone. Hopefully your engineers know this, and will tell you that rubidium (and cesium) clocks, while having outstanding long-term (resistance to drift) stability characteristics, do not have particularly good short-term stability (jitter or phase noise), which is the key to digital audio. This is reflected in the published phase noise characteristics. If you look at the published phase noise specs of the Perf 10 you referenced above, it is:

Phase noise (SSB)

<-130 dBc/Hz (10 Hz) <-140 dBc/Hz (100 Hz) <-150 dBc/Hz (1 kHz) <-155 dBc/Hz (10 kHz)

 

In contrast, the published phase noise of an OCXO-based  Mutec Ref 10 is:

Phase noise	dBc/Hz
1 Hz:	≤ -116
10 Hz:	≤ -145
100 Hz:	≤ -160
1000 Hz:	≤ -166
Noise floor:	≤ -170

 

I think the numbers speak for themselves. 

 

4 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

The iDSD Pro uses the GMT clock system originally developed for the AMR DP-777, using an adjustable clock system with 0.04ppm precision and ultra low phase noise. This means ALL audio clocks (USB, S/PDIF etc.) are derived from this 10MHz clock and phase noise in the 10MHz clock will transfer directly to the audio clocks.

 

That is great news. Since I own an aforementioned Ref 10, it sounds like the low phase noise will benefit both audio and system clocks in the Pro iDSD. This makes me want to audition it. When are you releasing it again?!

 

4 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

As per all the relevant standards (AES-3id) and/or industry practices (e.g. see SRS PERF-10) the BNC connections are 75 Ohm.

 

75 ohm is a standard choice, so that makes sense.

[austinpop]

 

46 minutes ago, anroj said:

Pardon my ignorance but I am going to purchase the iDSD Pro and was wondering about 10MHz clocks. Can I connect the Ref 10 directly into the iDSD Pro without needing something like the Mutec MC-3+ USB?

 

That is my understanding.

[austinpop]

10 minutes ago, d_elm said:

What power supply will you use with the PRO iDSD ?  15V, 4A label on the back of the unit.

 

Something like the Uptone JS-2 would have been perfect, but not sure if it can be customized to 15V output.

[austinpop]

21 minutes ago, d_elm said:

I found Music Direct list the iFi PRO iDSD and the specs indicate 9V/6.7A to 18V/3.35A for input voltage so a JS-2 at 12V/5A is a good try.

 If that is the case, then awesome!

 

DACs live and die by the quality of their PSU. There is no substitute for a beefy PSU with a deep reservoir of instantaneous current. I consider the PSU to be THE most important component of a DAC.

[austinpop]

51 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

Noted you’ve been firming that view up in recent times!

 

What are the specs that indicate the ’deepness’ of the “reservoir of instantaneous current”? Capacitance in microfarads? /& ...?

 

At a basic level, it refers to the maximum sustained and peak current that the power supply can deliver at the rated voltage. In large part, this correlates with the size (VA rating) of the transformer. This is assuming all other measures of quality are also delivered:

• quality of the transformer
• quality of the regulation stage(s)
• extremely low output impedance
• etc.

[austinpop]

8 hours ago, rickca said:

Hmm.  I think I'll wait for @austinpop's review.  Please get him a unit ASAP.

 

 I'll be receiving one for review soon.

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

Rajiv,

 

Will you have a DSD512 source (Hqplayer and/or Roon) available for this review?

 

Larry

 

No, but I'm open to ideas.

 

My whole chain is optimized on the low power end of the spectrum, with the Zenith SE as my music server. Obviously, this machine does not have the horsepower to do DSD512 upsampling, but on the flip side, the combination of SE, tX-USBultra and Ref-10 provides outstanding SQ.

 

Even absent DSD512 upsampling upstream of the DAC with HQPlayer, I am very interested to evaluate other unique aspects of the Pro iDSD, a few of which are:

• the internal DSD512 and DSD1024 upsampling
• the use of external power supplies like the JS-2 and even the SR-7
• the use of a 10MHz reference clock via my Mutec Ref 10.

But with that said, I have been debating how to incorporate DSD512 upsampling into my domain, without throwing out all the other optimizations. Nuno at Innuos has promised to get me NAA running on the SE, but it has not happened yet. However, even with NAA, isn't it the case that some DACs only support native DSD through their Windows drivers?

 

I could consider temporarily using an sMS-200ultra in my chain, running NAA, but I'd have to confirm whether it supports iFi DACs in native DSD.

 

And then there's the small matter of - I don't have a machine in house with a suitably powerful processor. Just for my benefit, what is the threshold for DSD512, with the xtr filter? i7-7700 or better? Or even more powerful?

 

Anyway - I'm not making any promises I'll be able to incorporate DSD512 upsampling in this evaluation of the Pro iDSD. If it happens, great. What I would hope is that all the other aspects of the evaluation still make for a compelling review. If it doesn't, I'm sure I'll hear about it!

[austinpop]

On 7/20/2018 at 6:08 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

Folks...

 

CanJam London 2018!

 

 

...and two of our staff - Sarah and Hannah - will be there! The girls will be located with iFi audio hardware at the Electromod's booth! Please do visit the place, the iFi ladies don't bite!

 

And to all able to visit the event, enjoy!

 

I did say hello to the iFi ladies at the Electromod booth!

 

Two related questions for you. When you connect a 10 MHz reference clock like the Mutec Ref-10 to the BNC input, is the correct setting to turn the Sync Mode dial to the "square wave" icon, the setting between Standalone and DARS?

 

 

And if so, how do you tell whether the unit is now using the external clock? Is there anything on the front panel display that shows that?

[austinpop]

21 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Hi,

 

Our policy is to not comment other manufacturers' products, therefore it's up to a user to know what type of a separate clock device he has. The Pro iDSD has several adjustments:

 

The standalone setting is appropriate for any use where the iDSD Pro does not require any external synchronisation to a house clock. Most commercial clocks of lesser quality (regardless of cost) will produce worse results than the internal oscillator of the iDSD Pro.

 

The atomic clock setting enables the input only and is appropriate if a suitably high grade external clock is used. We wrote in the past that our recommendation is Stanford Research System PERF-10 or better, where 'better' means objectively even lower phase-noise.

 

The DARS setting is suitable for studio synchronisation use. Please see the AES Standard - AES11-2003.

 

The 10MHz setting aka. the squarewave icon is intended to be used for example with multiple iDSD Pro machines set up for multi-channel operation. This mode enables both 10MHz input and 10MHz output.

 

It is acceptable not to provide a 10MHz on the input in this mode and instead to apply a BNC terminator and only use to 10MHz output to synchronise other devices with 10MHz clock inputs.

 

So if a 10MHz clock of suitable quality (> SRS PERF-10) is used in a system with only one iDSD Pro, the atomic clock setting is correct, even if the clock used is not an 'atomic clock', but a standard 10MHz one.

 

Clock Sync is handled transparently without any particular details displayed, only if there is a clock error will there be an error message.

 

OK thanks!

[austinpop]

11 minutes ago, applesnowleo said:

 

Hello, Roon Server is installed on the Synology DS3615xs and that takes care of the upsampling and all work Roon has to do, the endpoint is the SOTM SMS200 Ultra connected to the iFi iDSD Pro by USB, I am using an audio quest diamond USB between them.

 

At the moment the Mac Pro or even an iPad or iPhone are only controlers to play and choosing the music or albums to play. Roon support the direct network connection of the iDSD Pro but in a very limited form I only tried 44.1khz format, the DXD and other PCM High Resolution formats are downsampled by Roon.

 

With SOTM in the middle it supports all formats up to DSD256, I noticed that in the SOTM Page https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/eunhasu_-native-dsd-support/ they support the Micro and Nano line of iFi products with native DSD, strongly not the iDSD Pro. But works perfectly over DOP protocol. I will have to try this with my Micro iDSD Black to have share that Native is working or simply DOP.

 

If you go to section 14 of this doc: http://docs.sotm-audio.com/doku.php?id=en:eunhasu:start#supported_native_dsd_dac_list

 

There is a definitive way to tell if the Eunhasu code will allow native DSD playback, as they (SOtM) appear to control it based on the USB id of the device, that you can view on the DAC Information screen in the Settings menu of the sMS.

 

Let us know what you find.

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

supported by Thorsten Loesch himself.

 

Proving again, that sometimes "Loesch" is more. 

 

[austinpop]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:36 AM, Veri said:

About the iDSD Pro,

 

How do I know external word clock connection is doing anything?

 

Thank you!

 

As I mentioned in my review, there is no indicator on the front panel or display.

 

However, with the latest 2.0 beta firmware, I notice that if I disable or disconnect the external 10MHz clock, then the unit shows an error message that it has lost synchronization with the external clock. So - not the ideal solution, but at least a backdoor way to tell that the unit is using the reference 10MHz clock.