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UltraCap™ LPS-1 launch thread!


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How does this combo sound?

 

Sorry, I'll have to ask one of my clones, the one who has time to eat and listen. ;)

 

I did listen to the LPS-1/microRendu combo last week, but it was into a DAC powered by a JS-2. Now that is see the LPS-1 has no problem with the microRendu/iDSD, you can bet I'll put it into my system one night soon.

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Is there any break-in to be expected with the LPS-1? Thanks. -- David

I would also be interested in the answer to this question, even though my LPS-1 won't arrive for another month.

Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se

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For the life of me I can't figure out why or how a power supply would need to "break in."

 

For the life of you, are you saying capacitors don't break in? I only asked because it is a radically new design, and indeed the answer may be no. But I'm glad you've already figured it out.

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For the life of me I can't figure out why or how a power supply would need to "break in."

 

Oh, I don't know... maybe capacitors, resistors, dialectrics in the circuit board and semiconductors?

 

I know it is controversial, but in my experience, all electronics take some time to break in. How long will vary depending on the components involved, how audible on where the unit is in the chain, but all go through that process.

 

Greg in Mississippi

Everything Matters!

2 systems... Well-Tempered Refs->ET-2.5->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Standalone digital Sony HAP Z1-ES or SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked digital Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> EtherRegen -> USBBridge Sig -> Katana / Ian GB / Soerkis / Buffalo-IIIPro DACs

Passive S&B TX102 TVC or ladder attenuators -> BHK-250 -> Eminent Tech LFT-VIII / IV / VI

ALL gear modified / DIY'd; cables MIT;  all supplies DIY’d or LPS-1.2s w/HUGE Ultracaps; Audio gear on DIY AC filters + PS Aud P15s; misc gear on separate AC w/filters

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For the life of you, are you saying capacitors don't break in? I only asked because it is a radically new design, and indeed the answer may be no. But I'm glad you've already figured it out.

 

Oh, I don't know... maybe capacitors, resistors, dialectrics in the circuit board and semiconductors?

 

I know it is controversial, but in my experience, all electronics take some time to break in. How long will vary depending on the components involved, how audible on where the unit is in the chain, but all go through that process.

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

Sensitive, sensitive. I'm not saying that the LPS-1 doesn't break in. I'm merely stating that as a power supply I don't imagine that there will be an audible difference as things settle within the box. A cumulative performance within the LPS-1, itself, sure, but being audible is what doesn't make sense to me.

SonicTransporter i5 -> Linn KDS/3 -> M3a-800S -> EgglestonWorks Andra II

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Sensitive, sensitive. I'm not saying that the LPS-1 doesn't break in. I'm merely stating that as a power supply I don't imagine that there will be an audible difference as things settle within the box. A cumulative performance within the LPS-1, itself, sure, but being audible is what doesn't make sense to me.

 

Fair enough. and I was only seeking the reaction of Alex or John, who have heard cold units break in.. No big deal though, either way. Soon enough we'll be able to hear for ourselves.

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Sensitive, sensitive. I'm not saying that the LPS-1 doesn't break in. I'm merely stating that as a power supply I don't imagine that there will be an audible difference as things settle within the box. A cumulative performance within the LPS-1, itself, sure, but being audible is what doesn't make sense to me.

 

Guilty as charged. I was expecting responses that started with knock-offs phrases from over-educated/under-experienced EE-types such as:

 

That is impossible...

 

What is the mechanism...

 

Show us your measurements...

 

Ok, now that I'm over that, I will go out on a limb and say that for those getting the LPS-1 to power a Regen or a uRendu, I expect the change in sonics due to component break-in will not be a large effect. Why?

 

1. Most of the components that are exposed to the output side are behind great regulator. That doesn't mean the effects of those changes can't be heard through a regulator, but...

 

2. Both the Regen and uRendu ALSO have on-board regulators, in the most critical locations the same unit as used on the output of the LPS-1, if I remember the relevant posts correctly.

 

My experience is that having a minimal set of components before and even smaller set after great regulators feeding other great regulators in those downstream units will minimize the sonic effect of component break-in. I'll be VERY curious to hear what others report.

 

As suggested by John and Alex, I expect the impact of eliminating AC leakage current paths for the powered unit to swamp break-in sonics.

 

But my situation is a bit different than most others here... I'm getting a couple of LPS-1's to try in several locations in my DIY'd digital streams...

 

1. Powering an SDTrans384 SD-card player, with the option to try both on that unit with one powering just the clocks.

 

2. Powering a Kali R-Pi I2S reclocker and the associated DAC, and in situations where only one LPS-1 is needed for the reclocker/DAC combo (some of the DACs I use on the Pi are powered through the Kali reclocker), to also power the LMC optical networking interface upstream of the Pi.

 

3. Using both configured as a +- supply to power a Soekris DAM DAC (that has been shorn of it's active op amp output components).

 

I suspect LPS-1 component break-in might be more audible in these applications.

 

I'm sure I'll find other places to try them over time.

 

Greg in Mississippi

Everything Matters!

2 systems... Well-Tempered Refs->ET-2.5->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Standalone digital Sony HAP Z1-ES or SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked digital Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> EtherRegen -> USBBridge Sig -> Katana / Ian GB / Soerkis / Buffalo-IIIPro DACs

Passive S&B TX102 TVC or ladder attenuators -> BHK-250 -> Eminent Tech LFT-VIII / IV / VI

ALL gear modified / DIY'd; cables MIT;  all supplies DIY’d or LPS-1.2s w/HUGE Ultracaps; Audio gear on DIY AC filters + PS Aud P15s; misc gear on separate AC w/filters

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Hi guys (good to see you here Greg!; call me sometime, it's been too long).

 

Regards break-in/burn-in. Such terrible sounding words to a manufacture--we don't want anything breaking or burning! ;) How about "seasoning?"

 

But seriously. From my 3-4 decades in audio, including a LOT of time in the building/refining of capacitors, cables, amps, speakers (with my Hovland buddies), and a lots of comparing of passive and active parts, I am certainly not a burn-in denier. I could even rank the rate at which I think parts and materials burn-in/smooth-out. From fastest to slowest (and somewhere once I even had the audacity to put a hour estimation figure next to each):

 

Resistors (less than an hour)

Vacuum tubes

Polypropylene film capacitors in signal path

Analog cables (I can't remember which I thought take longer, speaker or interconnect cables, but any cable with Teflon dielectric will take much longer, and that's usually interconnects)

Teflon film capacitors in signal path (200+ hours)

 

Power supply break-in? I suppose, but I really can't say that I've noticed it much.

 

The UltraCap LPS-1? I certainly have not noticed any change, and I don't know that John has either. Then again, we are always focused on testing and listening, but not so much on break-in. And as Greg pointed out, the numerous (sonic) benefits of our crazy new supply are what people are going to notice. We'll leave it to you folks to decide if the piece changes over time.

 

I'll leave you with a story:

Back in my Hovland days we sent a preamp to a major magazine reviewer that requested it. (Honestly I now can not remember if it was the famous HP-100 or the newer and superior HP-200.) The unit we sent, while wrapped and packed as new, was actually our office unit that had been playing for 8 hours a day for 6 months, as we figured it was better to send a "seasoned" unit for review and just put a new "green" one back into our office rack.

 

We received a lovely, glowing review, consistent with the others the product already received. But in the review, the writer remarked about how it took 40-60 hours of playing for the "music to really open up and come alive" and that "it changed quite a bit during that break-in period." The review was so good that I never had the heart to tell him that the unit he reviewed--and eventually bought--was already quite well "seasoned" and that it was his ear/brain that was "burning-in!" ;)

 

============

 

By the way, we are right on schedule (maybe even a day ahead!) for shipping the first 150 units next Friday, October 14th as promised.

Here is a snapshot of the first 100 units all flashed with the program (thanks son), individually run through a 5 minute load test cycle (by me), and assembled into cases (by my assistant--she even took units home at night to work on).

Only hiccup so far was that these first boards were about 0.006" (0.15mm) too long, so we had to sand the front edge that tiny amount so the enclosure end plates would not have a gap (too short and the boards would rattle in the case). I'm thrilled that such a easy thing was the only issue!

 

IMG_0999.JPG

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By the way, we are right on schedule (maybe even a day ahead!) for shipping the first 150 units next Friday, October 14th as promised.

Here is a snapshot of the first 100 units all flashed with the program (thanks son), individually run through a 5 minute load test cycle (by me), and assembled into cases (by my assistant--she even took units home at night to work on).

Only hiccup so far was that these first boards were about 0.006" (0.15mm) too long, so we had to sand the front edge that tiny amount so the enclosure end plates would not have a gap (too short and the boards would rattle in the case). I'm thrilled that such a easy thing was the only issue!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29638[/ATTACH]

big smiley.jpg

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<SNIP>Regards break-in/burn-in. Such terrible sounding words to a manufacture--we don't want anything breaking or burning! ;) How about "seasoning?"

 

But seriously. From my 3-4 decades in audio, including a LOT of time in the building/refining of capacitors, cables, amps, speakers (with my Hovland buddies), and a lots of comparing of passive and active parts, I am certainly not a burn-in denier. I could even rank the rate at which I think parts and materials burn-in/smooth-out. From fastest to slowest (and somewhere once I even had the audacity to put a hour estimation figure next to each):

 

Resistors (less than an hour)

Vacuum tubes

Polypropylene film capacitors in signal path

Analog cables (I can't remember which I thought take longer, speaker or interconnect cables, but any cable with Teflon dielectric will take much longer, and that's usually interconnects)

Teflon film capacitors in signal path (200+ hours)

 

Power supply break-in? I suppose, but I really can't say that I've noticed it much.

 

The UltraCap LPS-1? I certainly have not noticed any change, and I don't know that John has either. Then again, we are always focused on testing and listening, but not so much on break-in. And as Greg pointed out, the numerous (sonic) benefits of our crazy new supply are what people are going to notice. We'll leave it to you folks to decide if the piece changes over time. <SNIP>

 

Our experiences with those types of components are roughly similar. But then there are two classes of components you didn't mention that I have heard break-in, oops, season, electrolytic and ceramic capacitors.

 

In my experience, electrolytics are generally fairly quick to 'season'... 2-3 days or so. That may be entirely different for the Supercapacitors in the LPS-1, but I do remember seeing some electrolytics there too.

 

Of course, there is that special sub-class of electrolytics, Black Gates, of which I still have a good stock and use in some of my DIY builds. They take 2-3 weeks of seasoning AND if they are off for more than a few days, need a few days playing to come back on song. Pain in the B*TT things, if they just didn't work so well in certain situations!

 

Then there are ceramic caps. A long time ago with a computer music setup many galaxies away, I did an extreme modification to the digital portion of a Juli@ sound card which was feeding a DIY'd I2S-connected DAC. I added 100uf ceramic caps across each power feed of each digitial chip on the card (20+ total along with some regulator upgrades). The results were a marked increase in dynamics, bass impact and definition, and overall resolution... and a harshness that took 2 weeks to diminish and another 2 weeks to mostly disappear. Of course some of that could have been me becoming attuned to the new sound... who knows, how to tell?

 

I did do two more rounds of mods on that Juli@, first replacing all of the 100uf ceramic caps with 47uf Oscons, which sweetened the highs and upper mids compared to the first mod, but lost some of the marked dynamics and bass impact. This took less than a week to settle in. Then I went back to the 100uf ceramics, but on only the 'deep digital' chips... PCI interface, controller, microprocessors, etc... and used a combination of the Oscons and stacked pairs of 1uf PPS film SMD caps on the I2S/S/PDIF signal generating chip (AK4114) and on the modified Dexa regulators... that preserved the dynamics and bass impact of the 1st version with close to the sweetness of the 2nd... and again those new 100uf ceramics took 2+2 weeks to finally season.

 

DIY'ing and modifying is a great way to experience and begin to categorize how different parts 'season'... I can highly recommend it!

 

Hi guys (good to see you here Greg!; call me sometime, it's been too long).

<SNIP>

By the way, we are right on schedule (maybe even a day ahead!) for shipping the first 150 units next Friday, October 14th as promised.

<SNIP>

 

Yah, it has been too long... I will ping you for some good times to call, BUT only after I've received a shipment notice of my LPS-1s... don't want to slow them down, I'd have ~148 other fanatic audio enthusiasts VERY ANGRY at me if I did that!

 

Later!

 

Greg in Mississippi

Everything Matters!

2 systems... Well-Tempered Refs->ET-2.5->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Standalone digital Sony HAP Z1-ES or SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked digital Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> EtherRegen -> USBBridge Sig -> Katana / Ian GB / Soerkis / Buffalo-IIIPro DACs

Passive S&B TX102 TVC or ladder attenuators -> BHK-250 -> Eminent Tech LFT-VIII / IV / VI

ALL gear modified / DIY'd; cables MIT;  all supplies DIY’d or LPS-1.2s w/HUGE Ultracaps; Audio gear on DIY AC filters + PS Aud P15s; misc gear on separate AC w/filters

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Hi guys (good to see you here Greg!; call me sometime, it's been too long).

 

Regards break-in/burn-in. Such terrible sounding words to a manufacture--we don't want anything breaking or burning! ;) How about "seasoning?"

 

But seriously. From my 3-4 decades in audio, including a LOT of time in the building/refining of capacitors, cables, amps, speakers (with my Hovland buddies), and a lots of comparing of passive and active parts, I am certainly not a burn-in denier. I could even rank the rate at which I think parts and materials burn-in/smooth-out. From fastest to slowest (and somewhere once I even had the audacity to put a hour estimation figure next to each):

 

Resistors (less than an hour)

Vacuum tubes

Polypropylene film capacitors in signal path

Analog cables (I can't remember which I thought take longer, speaker or interconnect cables, but any cable with Teflon dielectric will take much longer, and that's usually interconnects)

Teflon film capacitors in signal path (200+ hours)

 

Power supply break-in? I suppose, but I really can't say that I've noticed it much.

 

The UltraCap LPS-1? I certainly have not noticed any change, and I don't know that John has either. Then again, we are always focused on testing and listening, but not so much on break-in. And as Greg pointed out, the numerous (sonic) benefits of our crazy new supply are what people are going to notice. We'll leave it to you folks to decide if the piece changes over time.

 

I'll leave you with a story:

Back in my Hovland days we sent a preamp to a major magazine reviewer that requested it. (Honestly I now can not remember if it was the famous HP-100 or the newer and superior HP-200.) The unit we sent, while wrapped and packed as new, was actually our office unit that had been playing for 8 hours a day for 6 months, as we figured it was better to send a "seasoned" unit for review and just put a new "green" one back into our office rack.

 

We received a lovely, glowing review, consistent with the others the product already received. But in the review, the writer remarked about how it took 40-60 hours of playing for the "music to really open up and come alive" and that "it changed quite a bit during that break-in period." The review was so good that I never had the heart to tell him that the unit he reviewed--and eventually bought--was already quite well "seasoned" and that it was his ear/brain that was "burning-in!" ;)

 

============

 

By the way, we are right on schedule (maybe even a day ahead!) for shipping the first 150 units next Friday, October 14th as promised.

Here is a snapshot of the first 100 units all flashed with the program (thanks son), individually run through a 5 minute load test cycle (by me), and assembled into cases (by my assistant--she even took units home at night to work on).

Only hiccup so far was that these first boards were about 0.006" (0.15mm) too long, so we had to sand the front edge that tiny amount so the enclosure end plates would not have a gap (too short and the boards would rattle in the case). I'm thrilled that such a easy thing was the only issue!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29638[/ATTACH]

 

EEEEEP! Mine's in there!! Very psyched here.....

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Been experimenting with a set of AA batteries instead of the iFi. Like what I hear.

Another great way to prevent ground loop and leakage current issues.

 

I thought the relatively short runtime/need to recharge got old pretty fast however, hence my preorder for the 1st batch of LPS-1 production.

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

Boycott Warner Music Group

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Yes, recharging 6 AA batteries takes some time. But it's an amazingly simple way to test what the microRendu can sound like. Especially when you have 6 rechargeable batteries and a battery holder at hand.

I bought 2 sets of batteries so I could always have one fresh set ready to go while the other was charging, still I eventually tired of it.

 

That said, it's certainly the best low-cost way to see what the microRendu is ultimately capable of in terms of sound quality, the battery arrangement leaves the iPower in the dust on a performance level.

 

If not for the battery being a real eye opener I might have just stayed with the iPower, it's certainly not bad sounding with the microRendu.

 

But once I heard the battery, I knew I wanted to order the LPS-1 for a (hopefully) best of both worlds scenario.

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

Boycott Warner Music Group

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Here is a link to the very short guide booklet that will be included in the UltraCap LPS-1 package.

 

LPS-1 User Guide

 

You could almost start a car with the power stored in 120 FARADS of capacitance ! (grin)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Here is a link to the very short guide booklet that will be included in the UltraCap LPS-1 package.

 

LPS-1 User Guide

 

Alex:

 

"Solid red means the LPS-1 is not outputting any voltage. Unplug the AC>DC supply from the input, wait until the red light goes off completely, then plug the charging supply back in and wait 75 seconds for restart."

 

it only happens if/when the LPS-1 (or its feeding supply) has an "hiccup", not if/when I turn off the device being powered by the LPS-1, right?

Qnap HS-264 NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a Keces P8 LPS) > Lumin U2  > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier > First Watt SIT 3  power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

 

headphones system:

Cirrus 7 > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones

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Alex:

 

"Solid red means the LPS-1 is not outputting any voltage. Unplug the AC>DC supply from the input, wait until the red light goes off completely, then plug the charging supply back in and wait 75 seconds for restart."

 

it only happens if/when the LPS-1 (or its feeding supply) has an "hiccup", not if/when I turn off the device being powered by the LPS-1, right?

 

The LPS-1 will withstand a 4 second disruption to the feed power, so short power interruptions will be unnoticed. If the power is interrupted for longer than 4 seconds the output shuts off, the light turns RED and then goes off completely 7 to 10 seconds later. During that time when the light is RED it is discharging the capacitor banks. If the feed power is resumed while the light is RED the cap strings will sill have some charge. The system is designed so this should work, but there is a very slight chance that it won't start up again if the caps are not discharged. This is extremely rare. If it ever does happen, just unplug, wait until the light goes off, then plug in again.

 

If the power interruption was caused by you unplugging it wait until the RED light goes out before plugging back in.

 

If the interruption was caused by your AC line it will come back on when the line voltage returns.

 

Whether the load is connected or not makes no difference to this.

 

There are two "error conditions": over current, and feeder voltage not sufficient. When an over current happens the output shuts off, the light blinks red 5 times, then goes to normal to check again (light goes green) if the over current still exists it goes back to blinking and repeats until the over current condition goes away.

 

The other condition is if the feed supply cannot maintain sufficient voltage to meet the current requirements of the charging circuit. When this happens the output shuts off and the light blinks RED, the LPS-1 stays in this mode until you unplug it. At this point you should plug in a different supply that can supply the required current. This situation may not happen right away, the full current demand may not happen until the light goes green.

 

So summary of error conditions:

Flashing RED with short greens: over current or short. Goes back to green when over current load or short is removed.

Continuous flashing RED: feed supply doesn't cut it. Unplug supply, wait until light goes out, plug in new supply.

 

John S.

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Not long now!

 

You are right. Packing has begun. We are ahead of schedule by at least a day or two! :)

 

And almost as exciting (for me and my assistant at least) is the beautiful hardwood floor of our new space was installed today, so there is a chance we will start moving in in-between this first 150 LPS-1 units and the other 100 that we promised for end-of-October shipment (waiting on PCBs for those).

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From the LPS-1 User Guide: "it is normal for the case of the LPS-1 to become very warm – perhaps even hot – under full load."

 

Inspired by this, i invested in a pair of heatsinks: 100 x 100 x 25 mm for the LPS-1 and 75 x 46 x 33 mm for the microrendu.

 

Just trying to maintain my cool.

 

Microrendu.jpg

LPS1.JPG

Al J.

Modem/router + Keces DC-116 12V LPS - SGC Sonic Transporter + Sonore 12V LPS/Edwards Audio ISO-1 mains isolation transformer - Meicord Opal LAN cables - Aqvox Switch + Sbooster 9V LPS/Uptone LPS-1 - Etalon Isolator - Sonore Signature Rendu Special Edition + Mad Scientist Heretical USB data-only cable - Sonore Ultradigital + Uptone LPS-1 - PS Audio I2S-12 cable - HQ Player - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC -  iPeng on iPad 2 - MK Sound 300 monitors - Mad Audio Scientist Tungsten Carbide footers - Niels Larsen NLE speaker cables - Walker Audio Reference Plus HIGH Definition Links - 2 MK Sound MX350 subs - Shakti Stones - Herbie's Super Sonic Stabilizers - Herbie's Tenderfeet - Stillpoints ERS EMI/RFI sheets - Gutwire Ultimate Ground + Entreq Minimus + Silver Minimus grounding boxes - Symposium Rollerblocks - Symposium Ultra platform - Akiko Tuning Sticks

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Never used ifi, but I find the Sbooster to be a substantial step up from Meanwell, quieter and cleaner with more low-level detail. I expect more of the same from the LPS-1.

 

Owned a heavily modded Squeezbox Transporter for a few years, replaced by a Sonore Server PC in 2011 and updated to Sonic Transporter/microrendu this year.

Al J.

Modem/router + Keces DC-116 12V LPS - SGC Sonic Transporter + Sonore 12V LPS/Edwards Audio ISO-1 mains isolation transformer - Meicord Opal LAN cables - Aqvox Switch + Sbooster 9V LPS/Uptone LPS-1 - Etalon Isolator - Sonore Signature Rendu Special Edition + Mad Scientist Heretical USB data-only cable - Sonore Ultradigital + Uptone LPS-1 - PS Audio I2S-12 cable - HQ Player - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC -  iPeng on iPad 2 - MK Sound 300 monitors - Mad Audio Scientist Tungsten Carbide footers - Niels Larsen NLE speaker cables - Walker Audio Reference Plus HIGH Definition Links - 2 MK Sound MX350 subs - Shakti Stones - Herbie's Super Sonic Stabilizers - Herbie's Tenderfeet - Stillpoints ERS EMI/RFI sheets - Gutwire Ultimate Ground + Entreq Minimus + Silver Minimus grounding boxes - Symposium Rollerblocks - Symposium Ultra platform - Akiko Tuning Sticks

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