UltraCap™ LPS-1 launch thread!

[R1200CL]

I heard a rumor that LPS-1 will be 50% off, and all those who have purchased one (me included) are just sh&$t out of luck . . .

 

He, he, I think if he could sell 10 000 units, all made and shipped from China, maybe possible.

 

That may not be an impossible number to sell at $199, but I would expect it would require a quite good marketing budget...

Or test what is possible on kickstarter

 

A combination of the MicroRendu and (a downsized ?) LPS-1 in one box may be more realistic. You could even add a smps inside, or a optional simple lps.

 

Maybe even add FMC interface.

 

But that is more like a xmas surprise...

[Superdad]

He, he, I think if he could sell 10 000 units, all made and shipped from China, maybe possible.

 

That may not be an impossible number to sell at $199, but I would expect it would require a quite good marketing budget...

Or test what is possible on kickstarter

 

A combination of the MicroRendu and (a downsized ?) LPS-1 in one box may be more realistic. You could even add a smps inside, or a optional simple lps.

 

Maybe even add FMC interface.

 

But that is more like a xmas surprise...

 

So let me break that down a bit:

 

A) The parts cost what the parts cost. Boards made in China have to use the same brands and part numbers that boards in the USA do. While there are dozens of different, smaller size, and faster logic optoisolators (of which we use 10 per board), they are all 3-5 times the price of the one slow and large Toshiba model that we use. And ours are about $1 each at both 1,000 pcs. and 10,000 pieces--with a 12 week lead time. Same for the $8 Altera FPGA we use. Or the $12 spent on 7 A/D converters, or the $20 on ultracaps, or the $15 of regulators, the serial logic converters, the precision caps and resistors. There are no Chinese "generics" for any of these parts.

 

B) $199? That is below our cost. You mention marketing: advertising is a fabulous way to burn through a ton of money, so price would go up not down.

 

C) Kickstarter? Sorry, I see zero benefit to crowdfleecing for my firm. I'm already uncomfortable taking money for orders 4 weeks in advance of delivery. Why on earth would I want to take a $1 million from thousands of people (who will all have their own ideas about product features)? We are debt-free now, so if I really needed capital for a big project, I'd go to a bank.

 

D) The UltraCap LPS-1 is being used for many devices besides just the microRendu. And putting an SMPS inside would: take away flexibility; put more heat in the box; create more assembly labor, require more certifications, and cost more.

 

Plus, while Jesus and I speak frequently, UpTone and Sonore are separate companies.

 

Anyway... Have a great weekend all. I'll be here happily flashing firmware and testing boards--and trying to catch up on e-mail!

 

--Alex C.

[firedog]

To all the armchair manufacturers and marketers:

 

The boutique audio firms live in a different economic universe than the larger audio/electronics companies. You don't get economies of scale and pricing when ordering and producing runs of 150 or 450 units of a part /product at a time. Think prices several/many times higher. They also can't deal in "loss leaders" or even something close to that - working capital (and keeping food on the table) don't allow for it.

 

Yeah, if a big Japanese or Korean firm was making and selling the LPS-1 it would probably be a lot cheaper. But that's just the point - they aren't - and won't be. That's why we should happily support firms like Uptone.

[Jud]

Surely if you sell below cost you can make it up on volume?

[Middy]

They would be cloned and shipped by the weekend via Hong Kong...with your house on fire by the time you get back from treating the family to a burger with the saved money......... I wish John and Alex had a British accent but thier small firm and top products more than make up for that..?

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[mentt]

So let me break that down a bit:

 

A) The parts cost what the parts cost. Boards made in China have to use the same brands and part numbers that boards in the USA do. While there are dozens of different, smaller size, and faster logic optoisolators (of which we use 10 per board), they are all 3-5 times the price of the one slow and large Toshiba model that we use. And ours are about $1 each at both 1,000 pcs. and 10,000 pieces--with a 12 week lead time. Same for the $8 Altera FPGA we use. Or the $12 spent on 7 A/D converters, or the $20 on ultracaps, or the $15 of regulators, the serial logic converters, the precision caps and resistors. There are no Chinese "generics" for any of these parts.

 

B) $199? That is below our cost. You mention marketing: advertising is a fabulous way to burn through a ton of money, so price would go up not down.

 

C) Kickstarter? Sorry, I see zero benefit to crowdfleecing for my firm. I'm already uncomfortable taking money for orders 4 weeks in advance of delivery. Why on earth would I want to take a $1 million from thousands of people (who will all have their own ideas about product features)? We are debt-free now, so if I really needed capital for a big project, I'd go to a bank.

 

D) The UltraCap LPS-1 is being used for many devices besides just the microRendu. And putting an SMPS inside would: take away flexibility; put more heat in the box; create more assembly labor, require more certifications, and cost more.

 

Plus, while Jesus and I speak frequently, UpTone and Sonore are separate companies.

 

Anyway... Have a great weekend all. I'll be here happily flashing firmware and testing boards--and trying to catch up on e-mail!

 

--Alex C.

 

Which dac can be used with LPS-1?

[R1200CL]

Which dac can be used with LPS-1?

 

Any DAC that meets the LPS-1 power specification !

 

Probably not the answer you wanted

 

Did you have a specific DAC in mind ?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/ultracap%99-linear-power-supply-1-operation-and-pre-purchase-thread-30173/index3.html#post599350

[mentt]

Any DAC that meets the LPS-1 power specification !

 

Probably not the answer you wanted

 

Did you have a specific DAC in mind ?

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/ultracap%99-linear-power-supply-1-operation-and-pre-purchase-thread-30173/index3.html#post599350

List of compatible DACs would be nice :-)

[zilch0md]

List of compatible DACs would be nice :-)

 

That's like asking for a list of table lamps that are compatible with 120V 60Hz AC power.

 

Hint: The list would be enormous.

[mentt]

That's like asking for a list of table lamps that are compatible with 120V 60Hz AC power.

 

Hint: The list would be enormous.

 

If the list would be enormus, can you list one or two DACs as an example?

[Freann]

USB powered dacs (iFi etc)

[zilch0md]

If the list would be enormus, can you list one or two DACs as an example?

 

Quoting the Uptone Audio LPS-1 page:

 

The LPS-1 is a single output, 1-amp linear power supply intended for powering a wide range of audio and computer devices. Examples include: UpTone's own USB REGEN, the Sonore MicroRendu, small DACs and headphone amps, USB>S/PDIF converters, specialty computer USB cards, SSDs, fibre media converters, PS Audio LANRover, SqueezeBox Touch, etc.

A switch on the back of the LPS-1 allows for setting of the output voltage to 3.3V, 5V, or 7 volts.

 

Most DACs fall into one of three categories:

 

1) They require only 120V or 240V AC power

 

2) They require both 120V or 240V AC power -and- 5V DC power (at least 500 mA)

 

3) They require only 5V DC power (at least 500 mA)

 

The LPS-1 is therefore "compatible" with all DACs falling into category 2 or 3, above.

 

Listing two such DACs, per your request:

 

My Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII is compatible with the LPS-1 when cabled appropriately. (This DAC falls into category 2, above.)

 

My CEntrance DACport LX is compatible with the LPS-1 when cabled appropriately. (This DAC falls into category 3, above.)

 

Here's a thread that discusses some USB-powered DACs (those that fit in my category 3, above):

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/review-portable-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-dacs-audioquest-dragonfly-meridian-explorer-director-ifi-idac-idsd-geek-out-pulse-19272/

[cycler2]

Or highly enhanced one with integrated true galvanic isolation as icing on the cake...

 

Alex,

 

I've been thinking about getting a galvanic isolation device for a while. But, I've concluded that, unless I'm missing something (entirely possible if not likely!) my Regen and Paul Pang USB V.2 card together already do this.

 

Uptone's Regen website says, "The USB REGEN's secondary function is that it disconnects the computer's noisy 5 volt bus power coming down the USB cable, and provides clean 5VBUS on its output--for DACs that need it...." To me, that sounds like the 5V lines going into my DAC are isolated from the computer USB power. No use of the term "galvanic isolation" on the website, but it sure sounds like that's what is happening with respect to 5V bus.

 

As for the digital data, the Paul Pang USB card has a "Hand made silver wire audio grade digital output transformer for TCXO." Pang's website is not crystal clear, but I read this to mean that the USB data lines to my DAC are effectively isolated from the computer USB bus.

 

I would appreciate your (and/or) fellow forum member's) take on this.

 

Rich

[romaz]

The Regen does not galvanically isolate. Here is what John Swenson had to say about this:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-advice-needed-23475/#post401322

 

Alex,

 

I've been thinking about getting a galvanic isolation device for a while. But, I've concluded that, unless I'm missing something (entirely possible if not likely!) my Regen and Paul Pang USB V.2 card together already do this.

 

Uptone's Regen website says, "The USB REGEN's secondary function is that it disconnects the computer's noisy 5 volt bus power coming down the USB cable, and provides clean 5VBUS on its output--for DACs that need it...." To me, that sounds like the 5V lines going into my DAC are isolated from the computer USB power. No use of the term "galvanic isolation" on the website, but it sure sounds like that's what is happening with respect to 5V bus.

 

As for the digital data, the Paul Pang USB card has a "Hand made silver wire audio grade digital output transformer for TCXO." Pang's website is not crystal clear, but I read this to mean that the USB data lines to my DAC are effectively isolated from the computer USB bus.

 

I would appreciate your (and/or) fellow forum member's) take on this.

 

Rich

[cycler2]

The Regen does not galvanically isolate. Here is what John Swenson had to say about this:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-advice-needed-23475/#post401322

 

Romaz,

Thanks for your reply and the link. But in that link, I think John S. is talking about the USB data signal. In my post, I suggested that the Regen isolates the 5V line not the USB data bus. In my setup, I believe the transformer on Paul Pang's USB card effectively isolates the USB data bus.

Rich

[JohnSwenson]

Alex,

 

I've been thinking about getting a galvanic isolation device for a while. But, I've concluded that, unless I'm missing something (entirely possible if not likely!) my Regen and Paul Pang USB V.2 card together already do this.

 

Uptone's Regen website says, "The USB REGEN's secondary function is that it disconnects the computer's noisy 5 volt bus power coming down the USB cable, and provides clean 5VBUS on its output--for DACs that need it...." To me, that sounds like the 5V lines going into my DAC are isolated from the computer USB power. No use of the term "galvanic isolation" on the website, but it sure sounds like that's what is happening with respect to 5V bus.

 

As for the digital data, the Paul Pang USB card has a "Hand made silver wire audio grade digital output transformer for TCXO." Pang's website is not crystal clear, but I read this to mean that the USB data lines to my DAC are effectively isolated from the computer USB bus.

 

I would appreciate your (and/or) fellow forum member's) take on this.

 

Rich

 

That transformer is just on the clock, NOT the USB output. Leakage loops from the computer power supply will go right through the USB cable to your DAC.

 

The 5V line being broken is not what matters, it is the ground connection where the leakage loops go through, either the ground wire or the shield.

 

If you want to maintain the advantage of the PPA card your only method right now is to use one of the optical PCIE extension products and power the downstream side from an LPS-1.

 

Another way to do it is put an Intona after the PPA, then into a REGEN powered from an LPS-1. It will sound marvelous, but you are NOT using the advantage you get from the PPA card that way.

 

John S.

[sandyk]

Another way to do it is put an Intona after the PPA, then into a REGEN powered from an LPS-1. It will sound marvelous, but you are NOT using the advantage you get from the PPA card that way.

 

Better still, may be to wait for a soon to be announced officially, new generation USB Regen designed by John which also offers isolation.

[rickca]

Better still, may be to wait for a soon to be announced officially, new generation USB Regen designed by John which also offers isolation.

Time to launch the uptoneinsider.com website

[sandyk]

Time to launch the uptoneinsider.com website

 

Alex C has recently confirmed this, in an answer to a post by me about it being in the pipeline.

[cycler2]

That transformer is just on the clock, NOT the USB output. Leakage loops from the computer power supply will go right through the USB cable to your DAC.

 

The 5V line being broken is not what matters, it is the ground connection where the leakage loops go through, either the ground wire or the shield.

 

If you want to maintain the advantage of the PPA card your only method right now is to use one of the optical PCIE extension products and power the downstream side from an LPS-1.

 

Another way to do it is put an Intona after the PPA, then into a REGEN powered from an LPS-1. It will sound marvelous, but you are NOT using the advantage you get from the PPA card that way.

 

John S.

 

John,

Thanks for setting me straight on this. I should have known better than to dabble in technical matters. I see that rumors are flying about a new, improved, isolating Regen, so I will pass on the Intona and wait for the rumored product.

Rich

[limniscate]

I just ordered one and hope it's a lot better than the HDPlex with my microRendu.

[Gwilson]

I recently switched my microRendu from HDPlex to this UltraCap and the improvement was immediate with music very noticeably better. This is the first LPS I have owned that seemed to really improve the sound.

[Akeg]

Hi,

 

I have had my UltraCap LPS-1 in my system for about 10 days now and I would like to share my impressions. I have for a long time had two Audioquest JitterBug and a USB REGEN in my digital chain (from an Apple MacBook Pro (2014) to a Benchmark DAC2 HGC). The JitterBug and the REGEN made an audible improvement of the SQ, but it cannot compare with the improvement I got after powering the REGEN with the UltraCAP LPS-1.

 

I am actually surpised how big an improvement I got. The improvement in SQ is almost of the magnitude I got after adding Dirac room correction to my system, and that improvement was huge. The type of improvement the the LPS-1 brings is however related to different parameters (Dirac solved my frequency and impulse response related SQ problems). The effect of the LPS-1 is a bit more difficult to describe, but I can only say that now, for the first time, everything just sounds right. Gone is that stress that previously has always been a part of listening to a system with a digital front end. For the first time I actually understand the meaning of the term "digital hash". I understand it because it is gone. The sound coming from my system is now completely relaxed and it just sounds right, for the lack of a better word "analogue". And that difference is very profound. It's like when you go from exhibitor to exhibitor in a hi-fi show and finally comes to a room where it just sounds right, it is difficult to describe exactly what it is but it is there. I was actually on my way to invest in an expensive AC power conditioner like Audioquest Niagara 7000 or Shunyata Research etc. (I currently have a PS Audio Dectet), but I don't feel the need for that type of investment anymore...

[Superdad]

Hi,

 

I have had my UltraCap LPS-1 in my system for about 10 days now and I would like to share my impressions. ...

 

Wow Akeg, great review, thanks! Hope you don't mind, but I copied your post into the UltraCap LPS-1 Listening Impressions thread.

 

Glad you are enjoying your system so much now.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[Akeg]

Wow Akeg, great review, thanks! Hope you don't mind, but I copied your post into the UltraCap LPS-1 Listening Impressions thread.

 

Glad you are enjoying your system so much now.

 

Best,

--Alex C.

Of course I don't mind. Theb topic is better suited in that thread.

 

Akeg