Post Your System Topology - It Might Help Others To Improve Their Systems

[Cornan]

Hrmm...now how did that double post happen? Stranger than understanding why grounded secondary would do any good!

 

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[Cornan]

Micael... I wasn't using an Aries, back then, but just a (AirPort) wi-fi connection between my Mac mini and NAS

the minute I switched to wired... WOW!!! and never, ever, thought about going back to wireless

 

YMMV

Wait, hold on! It took some time to sink in...but you actually said that you went from airplay to wired. No wonder you heard a huge difference! Airplay converts everything...so you'll need to stay away! You want to connect to the Aries via OpenHome. Either through the LightningDS on iOS or via BubbleDS Next or BubbleUPnP via Android. Nothing else IMO! No conversion...just good sound!

 

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[pl_svn]

AirPort (Apple wifi router) *not* Airplay

[Cornan]

AirPort (Apple wifi router) *not* Airplay

Hrmm...I'll guess you'll need to go through all your other wireless connected devices in the chain and click to forget them on the 5g network. All other devices must only see the 2,4g network. Capish?

..and get a wireless range extender for the control point..and maybe another one for the Aries..but I'll let you know on the last suggestion!

Hrmm...now how did that double post happen? Stranger than understanding why grounded secondary would do any good!

 

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[pl_svn]

Hrmm...I'll guess you'll need to go through all your other wireless connected devices in the chain and click to forget them on the 5g network. All other devices must only see the 2,4g network. Capish?

..and get a wireless range extender for the control point..and maybe another one for the Aries..but I'll let you know on the last suggestion!

 

I'm fine with my wired setup with all devices, NAS included, powered from LPSs and a fiber connection to the router

just Qobuz comes from there and sounds as good as local files

[Cornan]

I'm fine with my wired setup with all devices, NAS included, powered from LPSs and a fiber connection to the router

just Qobuz comes from there and sounds as good as local files

Troubles me why some do prefer fiber to wireless! It should'nt..but it does! Welcome to the subjective audio world! It makes no sense!

 

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[austinpop]

I might want explain my "obsession" to wireless. There is several reasons why except for what my own ears tells me. First of all wireless is the only true transparent way to send an audio signal to another destination. Cables, fibers etc will all give their own signature to the sound. Why not fibers some will ask? Just because they add DC power supplies to the chain...and power supplies not do any good to the final result. It is in fact the same thing with grounding. It is in the absent of cables, ground and power supplies (were possible) that you will find audio nirvana. Ofcourse this is my personal beliefs and my personal quest. YMMV!

 

As Micael mentioned, I find wired SQ better on my setup.

 

As always, there are many variables, and they move SQ in opposite directions. Good, clean wireless has inherent galvanic isolation, which improves SQ. On the other hand, the wireless stage of the streamer/DAC generates EMI/RF, which is noise and degrades SQ.

 

So perhaps device A has a very quiet wireless design such that it still sounds better than wired, while device B is the other way around.

 

In my case, the device is the Aries Mini, which I find does sound better wired (even without isolation), and even more so with FMC isolation.

 

Ultimately, the only thing you should take out of these findings by others is the knowledge that a variable (i.e. wireless vs wired) appears to impact SQ. Questions to ask yourself: do I care to try it? How convenient is it to switch?

 

Once you try it, you'll know what the answer is on your system.

[pl_svn]

As Micael mentioned, I find wired SQ better on my setup.

 

As always, there are many variables, and they move SQ in opposite directions. Good, clean wireless has inherent galvanic isolation, which improves SQ. On the other hand, the wireless stage of the streamer/DAC generates EMI/RF, which is noise and degrades SQ.

 

So perhaps device A has a very quiet wireless design such that it still sounds better than wired, while device B is the other way around.

 

In my case, the device is the Aries Mini, which I find does sound better wired (even without isolation), and even more so with FMC isolation.

so there has to be something else playing a role as... unless I'm mistaken... Micael too is using an Aries Mini

[kennyb123]

Troubles me why some do prefer fiber to wireless! It should'nt..but it does! Welcome to the subjective audio world! It makes no sense!

 

Fiber was a godsend with my Aries relative to both wireless and wired (with copper). It seemed to me that wireless might have been contributing noise itself.

 

Couldn't the internal wifi transmitter/receiver be thought of as an RF generator? And if so wouldn't there be the possibility of reducing the noise floor of our systems with it being powered off - especially if it's in close proximity to sensitive analog circuitry?

 

I don't have any answers - just speculating. It's just been my experience that there are many things that at first blush "shouldn't" be causing harm, but when we look deeper we often find good explanations for why they do.

 

Now that I have a microRendu I have no choice but to go wired. Noise floor is far lower than it ever was with the Aries on wireless and fiber plays a role in that.

[austinpop]

so there has to be something else playing a role as... unless I'm mistaken... Micael too is using an Aries Mini

 

Yes - the rest of the system chain! Ultimately it's the overall system with all its interactions that determines what your ears hear.

 

Speaking of which - best if we not hijack this thread, which is for posting system topologies.

 

I suggest follow up discussion in the Overall isolation thread.

[Cornan]

so there has to be something else playing a role as... unless I'm mistaken... Micael too is using an Aries Mini

 

I strongly beleive that that reason will be found in the chosen power supplies (LPS vs BPS) and how well the ICs is isolated against ground loops. Comparing a passive USB isolation to a active one you will see that the active one will add noise to the chain while the passive one will do the same thing without adding any noise. Which one would you believe in? I personally prefer wireless and intend to search for the optimal SQ with it. If anyone prefer wired or fibers it is ok. My quest is my own...and my curious mind only!

 

 

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[Cornan]

Fiber was a godsend with my Aries relative to both wireless and wired (with copper). It seemed to me that wireless might have been contributing noise itself.

 

Couldn't the internal wifi transmitter/receiver be thought of as an RF generator? And if so wouldn't there be the possibility of reducing the noise floor of our systems with it being powered off - especially if it's in close proximity to sensitive analog circuitry?

 

I don't have any answers - just speculating. It's just been my experience that there are many things that at first blush "shouldn't" be causing harm, but when we look deeper we often find good explanations for why they do.

 

Now that I have a microRendu I have no choice but to go wired. Noise floor is far lower than it ever was with the Aries on wireless and fiber plays a role in that.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Cornan]

Yes - the rest of the system chain! Ultimately it's the overall system with all its interactions that determines what your ears hear.

 

Speaking of which - best if we not hijack this thread, which is for posting system topologies.

 

I suggest follow up discussion in the Overall isolation thread.

 

I'll accept that I am quite alone with my believes...but I am confident in my choise! I want to explore everything before I make my final judge on sireless! [emoji1605]

 

 

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[Cornan]

I'll accept that I am quite alone with my believes...but I am confident in my choise! I want to explore everything before I make my final judge on wireless! [emoji1605]

 

 

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[Trabb]

... You also need to make sure to ground digital chain separate to analogue...

Cornan is a DAC an analogue device ? If yes, I have some doubts regarding grounding conditioner. I have a Regen connected via hard adapter to my DAC. That is to gain better impedance match. OK, SQ is great. When I connect my DAC as well as my amplifier to different grounding conditioner, isn't it that through hard adapter and Regen the digital and analogue elements will be still connected regarding grounding their shielding ? Sorry for my silly question, I'm just still learning.

[Cornan]

Cornan is a DAC an analogue device ? If yes, I have some doubts regarding grounding conditioner. I have a Regen connected via hard adapter to my DAC. That is to gain better impedance match. OK, SQ is great. When I connect my DAC as well as my amplifier to different grounding conditioner, isn't it that through hard adapter and Regen the digital and analogue elements will be still connected regarding grounding their shielding ? Sorry for my silly question, I'm just still learning.

 

A DAC is best grounded via the digital side. If you connect the DAC via USB you can ground the digital side via spdif input/output..through the RCA shield (outer barrel). A chassi screw will also work. Regen can be grounded via one of the chassi screws connected to the digital grounding box.

Preamp, integraded amp and power amp is grounded as a analogue device.

There is no silly questions! It took me a long time to fully understand the ground enhancers. Remember that you are always grounding the shields of equipments and cables to drain out noises, RFI/EMI & high frequency noises that is travelling through the shields. In fact, it should rather be called a shield & ground enhancer than a ground enhancer. Since the shield is usually connected to ground it will indirectly clean the ground.

 

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[YashN]

A DAC is best grounded via the digital side. If you connect the DAC via USB you can ground the digital side via spdif input/output..through the RCA shield (outer barrel). A chassi screw will also work. Regen can be grounded via one of the chassi screws connected to the digital grounding box.

 

Interesting, as this is what I did once.

But now IIRC I believe I also had my amp's signal return going to the same outboard custom 'grounding device'. I can't say now whether it's something to do or not but the SQ sure was good.

[Cornan]

Interesting, as this is what I did once.

But now IIRC I believe I also had my amp's signal return going to the same outboard custom 'grounding device'. I can't say now whether it's something to do or not but the SQ sure was good.

It is not the end of the world if digital & analogue is grounded to the same box...but it will most likely sound a little better when separated into two boxes. It also sounds even better with one box per grounded equipment/cable.

Personally I am very interested to ground the chassi of my PeakTech 2240. Since it is a iso transformer with a floating secondary the ground is connected to the chassi...and a external ground could potensially do a very good improvement on that spot. However, before I do I'll need to ask Entreq if it is a safe thing to do!

 

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[Cornan]

Deleted!

[YashN]

It is not the end of the world if digital & analogue is grounded to the same box...but it will most likely sound a little better when separated into two boxes. It also sounds even better with one box per grounded equipment/cable.

 

That's what I thought as well, so now I'm not sure how it could bring better SQ.

[Cornan]

That's what I thought as well, so now I'm not sure how it could bring better SQ.

Here is a link with good info regarding why analog and digital grounding should be a concern for best SQ http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/staying-well-grounded.html

 

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[YashN]

Here is a link with good info regarding why analog and digital grounding should be a concern for best SQ Staying Well Grounded | Analog Devices

 

This is what we already know...

 

Does it explain why if I externally grounded my DAC 'digital' and my SS amp's signal to an external 'grounding device', the SQ is better, though?

[Cornan]

It does in a way. DAC can be grounded both ways. Digital and analog if you wish. Analog ground is more sensitive to digital ground than vice versa. AFAIK due to high freq noise in digital ground. Very best result is to use two boxes for a DAC. Either one makes a good improvement....but to the anwers what makes the best improvement it should be digital ground in a DAC IME.

 

 

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[pl_svn]

Vinnie Rossi told me my Mini Pure-DC PS should ship tomorrow (and hopefully be here by the end of next week) :-)

 

so today, in preparation, I started re-locating bits and bobs of my system to make room for it. Mostly I:

- moved the Aries from sitting on top of the UpTone JS-2 (Mac mini sits there now)

- back to using an Elijha Audio Isolate Cu USB cable (no 5v wire) between Aries and Regen (because of the distance, Isolate is only 50cm long, I was using an Audioquest Carbon since I got the Chord 2Qute)

 

just this made a clear difference in bass detail and tightness :-)

(I believe the JS-2 is well shielded so it's mostly due to the USB cable)

[Cornan]

Vinnie Rossi told me my Mini Pure-DC PS should ship tomorrow (and hopefully be here by the end of next week) :-)

 

so today, in preparation, I started re-locating bits and bobs of my system to make room for it. Mostly I:

- moved the Aries from sitting on top of the UpTone JS-2 (Mac mini sits there now)

- back to using an Elijha Audio Isolate Cu USB cable (no 5v wire) between Aries and Regen (because of the distance, Isolate is only 50cm long, I was using an Audioquest Carbon since I got the Chord 2Qute)

 

just this made a clear difference in bass detail and tightness :-)

(I believe the JS-2 is well shielded so it's mostly due to the USB cable)

Very exciting pl_svn! I am more than envious of your mini pure-DC PS...and cannot not hold back my urge to get one myself! I wish you all the luck with it. I am 100% sure you'll be satisfied...but I still hate you!

 

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